alt.atheism	alt atheism faq atheist resources archive name atheism resources alt atheism archive name resources last modified december version atheist resources addresses atheist organizations usa freedom religion foundation darwin fish bumper stickers and assorted atheist paraphernalia freedom religion foundation write ffrf box madison telephone evolution designs evolution designs sell darwin fish fish symbol christians stick cars feet and word darwin written inside deluxe moulded plastic fish postpaid write evolution designs laurel canyon north hollywood people san francisco bay area can darwin fish lynn gold mailing figmo netcom for net people lynn directly price per fish american atheist press aap publish atheist books critiques bible lists biblical contradictions and such book bible handbook ball and foote american atheist press isbn edition bible contradictions absurdities atrocities immoralities contains ball foote bible contradicts aap based king james version bible write american atheist press box austin cameron road austin telephone fax prometheus books sell books including haught holy horrors below write east amherst street buffalo york telephone alternate address newer older prometheus books glenn drive buffalo african americans for humanism organization promoting black secular humanism and uncovering history black freethought publish quarterly newsletter aah examiner write norm allen african americans for humanism box buffalo united kingdom rationalist press association national secular society islington high street holloway road london london british humanist association south place ethical society lamb conduit passage conway hall london red lion square london fax national secular society publish freethinker monthly magazine founded germany ibka internationaler bund der konfessionslosen und atheisten postfach berlin germany ibka publish journal miz materialien und informationen zur zeit politisches journal der konfessionslosesn und atheisten hrsg ibka miz vertrieb postfach berlin germany for atheist books write ibdk internationaler ucherdienst der konfessionslosen postfach hannover germany telephone books fiction thomas disch santa claus compromise short story ultimate proof that santa exists characters and events fictitious similarity living dead gods walter miller canticle for leibowitz gem this post atomic doomsday monks spent lives copying blueprints saint leibowitz filling sheets paper ink and leaving white lines and letters edgar pangborn davy post atomic doomsday set clerical states church for example forbids that produce describe use substance containing atoms philip dick philip dick dick wrote philosophical and thought provoking short stories and novels stories bizarre times approachable wrote wrote people truth and religion technology believed that had met sort god remained sceptical novels relevance galactic pot healer fallible alien deity summons group earth craftsmen and women remote planet raise giant cathedral beneath oceans deity begins demand faith earthers pot healer joe fernwright unable comply polished ironic and amusing maze death noteworthy for description technology based religion valis schizophrenic hero searches for hidden mysteries gnostic christianity reality fired into brain pink laser beam unknown possibly divine origin accompanied dogmatic and dismissively atheist friend and assorted odd characters divine invasion god invades earth making young woman pregnant returns another star system terminally ill and assisted dead man brain wired hour easy listening music margaret atwood handmaid tale story based premise that congress mysteriously assassinated and fundamentalists quickly charge nation set book diary woman life live christian theocracy women property revoked and bank accounts closed sinful luxuries outlawed and radio used for readings bible crimes punished retroactively doctors performed legal abortions world hunted and hanged atwood writing style difficult used tale grows and chilling authors bible this somewhat dull and rambling work criticized worth reading that you fuss exists versions make you true version books fiction peter rosa vicars christ bantam press rosa christian even catholic this enlighting history papal immoralities adulteries fallacies etc german translation gottes erste diener die dunkle seite des papsttums droemer knaur michael martin atheism philosophical justification temple university press philadelphia usa detailed and scholarly justification atheism contains outstanding appendix defining terminology and usage this necessarily tendentious area argues for negative atheism belief existence god and for positive atheism belief existence god includes great refutations challenging arguments for god attention paid refuting contempory theists such platinga and swinburne pages isbn hardcover paperback case christianity temple university press comprehensive critique christianity considers contemporary defences christianity and ultimately demonstrates that unsupportable and incoherent pages isbn james turner god creed johns hopkins university press baltimore usa subtitled origins unbelief america examines unbelief whether agnostic atheistic mainstream alternative world view focusses period and france and britain emphasis american and england developments religious history secularization atheism god creed intellectual history fate single idea belief that god exists pages isbn hardcover paper george seldes editor great thoughts ballantine books york usa dictionary quotations kind concentrating statements and writings explicitly implicitly present person philosophy and world view includes obscure and suppressed opinions people for popular observations traces people expressed and twisted idea centuries quite number quotations derived cardiff great men religion and noyes views religion pages isbn paper richard swinburne existence god revised edition clarendon paperbacks oxford this book second volume trilogy that began coherence theism and concluded faith and reason this work swinburne attempts construct series inductive arguments for existence god arguments somewhat tendentious and rely imputation late century western christian values and aesthetics god supposedly simple can conceived decisively rejected mackie miracle theism revised edition existence god swinburne includes appendix makes somewhat incoherent attempt rebut mackie mackie miracle theism oxford this posthumous volume contains comprehensive review principal arguments for and existence god ranges classical philosophical positions descartes anselm berkeley hume moral arguments newman kant and sidgwick recent restatements classical theses plantinga and swinburne addresses positions push concept god realm rational such kierkegaard kung and philips replacements for god such lelie axiarchism book delight read formalistic and written martin works and refreshingly direct compared hand waving swinburne james haught holy horrors illustrated history religious murder and madness prometheus books religious persecution ancient times present day and not christians library congress catalog card number norm allen african american humanism anthology listing for african americans for humanism gordon stein anthology atheism and rationalism prometheus books anthology covering wide range subjects including devil evil and morality and history freethought comprehensive bibliography edmund cohen mind bible believer prometheus books study people become christian fundamentalists and effect net resources small mail based archive server mantis carries archives alt atheism moderated articles and assorted files for information send mail archive server mantis send atheism index and will mail back reply mathew
alt.atheism	alt atheism faq introduction atheism archive name atheism introduction alt atheism archive name introduction last modified april version begin pgp signed message introduction atheism mathew mathew mantis this article attempts provide general introduction atheism whilst neutral contentious issues you remember that this document represents viewpoint encourage you read widely and draw your conclusions relevant books listed companion article provide sense cohesion and progression presented this article imaginary conversation atheist and theist questions asked imaginary theist questions cropped repeatedly alt atheism since newsgroup created frequently asked questions answered companion article note that this article arguably slanted answering questions posed christian viewpoint this faq files reflect questions asked and predominantly christians proselytize alt atheism talk religion talking primarily religions such christianity judaism and islam involve sort superhuman divine discussion will apply religions not atheism atheism characterized absence belief existence god atheists and that god not exist referred weak atheist position and strong atheism important note difference two positions weak atheism simple scepticism disbelief existence god strong atheism positive belief that god not exist not fall into trap assuming that atheists strong atheists atheists existence gods limit atheism specific gods such christian god making flat denials isn disbelieving god thing believing doesn exist not disbelief proposition means that not true not believing that true not equivalent believing that false simply idea whether true not brings agnosticism agnosticism term agnosticism coined professor huxley meeting metaphysical society defined agnostic disclaimed strong atheism and believed that ultimate origin things unknown and unknowable agnostic believes that not and cannot for whether god exists words slippery things and language inexact beware assuming that you can work philosophical point view simply fact that calls atheist agnostic for example people use agnosticism mean weak atheism and use word atheism referring strong atheism beware that word atheist shades meaning difficult generalize atheists you can for that atheists don god for example isn case that atheists that science find universe philosophical justification basis for atheism philosophical justifications for atheism find person chooses atheist atheists feel that idea god presented major religions essentially contradictory and that logically impossible that such god exist atheists scepticism evidence that god exists isn impossible prove existence counter examples such statement for example quite simple prove that not exist prime number larger prime numbers this deals defined objects obeying defined rules whether gods universes similarly defined matter for debate assuming for moment that existence god not provably impossible subtle reasons for assuming existence god assume that not exist show that this assumption invalid finding single counter example hand assume that exist and thing question not provably impossible showing that assumption invalid require exhaustive search places such thing found show that isn such exhaustive search impractical impossible such problem largest primes can prove that don exist generally accepted that assume things not exist evidence that even theists follow this rule time don unicorns even can conclusively prove that unicorns exist anywhere assume that god exists make assumption cannot tested cannot make exhaustive search god prove that doesn exist anywhere sceptical atheist assumes default that god not exist since that assumption can test profess strong atheism not claim that sort god exists generally restrict claims cover varieties god described followers religions whilst impossible prove conclusively that god exists prove that god described religious book not exist even prove that god described present day religion exists practice believing that god described religion exists close believing that god exists sufficiently that counter arguments based impossibility disproving kind god not applicable god essentially detectable god interacts universe effects interaction measurable interaction universe detectable god essentially detectable case that not interact universe atheists argue that god not interact universe importance whether exists not bible believed god easily detectable israelites surely detectable today note that not demanding that god interact scientifically verifiable physical surely perceive effect caused presence can distinguish things that don exist you philosophical justification for atheism isn religious belief common pastimes philosophical discussion redefinition game cynical view this game follows person begins making contentious statement person points that can true person gradually defines words used statement arrives person prepared accept records statement fact that person agreed and continues eventually statement agreed fact original definitions words obscure redefinitions originally needed agree apparently inconsistent will tend play point this digression that answer question isn atheism religious belief depends crucially meant religious religion generally characterized belief superhuman controlling power sort god and faith and worship worth pointing passing that varieties buddhism not religion such definition atheism not belief sort superhuman power categorized worship meaningful sense widening definition religious encompass atheism result aspects human behaviour suddenly classed religious such science politics and watching not religion surely belief atheism science act faith religion firstly not clear that sceptical atheism believes secondly adopt number core beliefs assumptions make sort sense sensory data experience atheists adopt core beliefs and even subject questioning experience throws into doubt science number core assumptions for example generally assumed that laws physics for observers sort core assumptions atheists make such basic ideas called acts faith almost based acts faith and term loses meaning faith used refer complete belief such definition atheism and science not acts faith individual atheists scientists can dogmatic religious followers claiming that this not general tendency atheists reluctant state certainty that universe exists faith used refer belief supporting evidence proof sceptical atheism doesn fit that definition sceptical atheism beliefs strong atheism closer doesn match even dogmatic atheist will tend refer experimental data lack asserting that god not exist atheism not religious surely anti religious unfortunate human tendency label for friend enemy truth not clear cut atheism position that runs logically counter theism that sense can anti religion religious believers speak atheists anti religious mean that atheists sort antipathy hatred theists this categorization atheists hostile religion quite unfair atheist attitudes theists fact cover broad spectrum atheists live and live attitude questioned will not mention atheism perhaps close friends this part atheism not socially acceptable countries atheists quite anti religious and even convert historically such anti religious atheists made impact society eastern bloc countries digress slightly soviet union originally dedicated separation church and state usa soviet citizens legally free worship wished institution state atheism stalin control soviet union and destroy churches order gain complete power population atheists quite vocal beliefs religion encroaching matters not business for example government usa such individuals concerned that church and state remain separate you don religion running state surely that state atheism principle separation church and state that state not legislate matters religious belief means not that state cannot promote religion expense another that cannot promote belief religious nature religions can discussion purely secular matters for example religious believers historically responsible for encouraging political reforms even today organizations campaigning for increase spending foreign aid founded religious campaigns long campaign secular matters and long not discriminate religious grounds atheists quite happy prayer schools god you care people pray people pray voters and lawmakers and tend things that don pray can ignore christian prayer schools intimidating christians even told that not join diversity religious and religious belief means that impossible formulate meaningful prayer that will acceptable present public event prayers tend friends and family pray reasonable care friends and family wasting time even motives you mentioned christians campaign for increased foreign aid atheists aren atheist charities hospitals don atheists object religious charities charities religious purpose that atheists can contribute atheists contribute religious charities for sake practical good atheists even voluntary work for charities founded theistic basis atheists feel that atheism isn worth shouting connection charity atheism simple obvious everyday matter and charity feel that somewhat cheap not righteous use simple charity excuse plug set religious beliefs weak atheists building hospital not god strange idea holding party today not birthday fuss atheism rarely evangelical you atheism isn anti religious perhaps backlash upbringing rebelling perhaps for people parents not attempt force religious atheist ideas and people choose call atheists doubtless case that religious people chose religion backlash atheist upbringing hand people choose religion conforming expectations can conclude whether atheism religion backlash conformism general people tendency group act independently atheists differ religious people don god that atheists listen heavy metal backwards even prefer verdi requiem even words wear hawaiian shirts dress black even wear orange robes buddhists lack belief sort god atheists even carry copy bible for arguing you chances you met atheists realising atheists unexceptional behaviour and appearance unexceptional aren atheists moral religious people that depends you define morality obedience god atheists moral don obey god talks morality talks acceptable and unacceptable wrong behaviour society humans social animals and maximally successful operate each this good reason discourage atheists anti social immoral behaviour purely for purposes preservation atheists behave moral compassionate simply feel natural tendency empathize humans care happens don simply that naturally people behave immorally and use atheism justify actions equally people behave immorally and use religious beliefs justify actions for example trustworthy that deserves full acceptance jesus christ into world save sinners for that reason shown mercy that jesus christ display unlimited patience example for and receive eternal life king eternal immortal invisible god honor and glory forever and quote statement made court february jeffrey dahmer notorious cannibal serial killer milwaukee wisconsin that for atheist mass murderer religious mass murderer trivial morality survey conducted roper organization found that behavior deteriorated born experiences respondents had driven intoxicated born had conversion similarly had used illegal drugs conversion two percent admitted engaging illicit sex salvation freethought today september that religion not monopoly moral behaviour such thing atheist morality you mean such thing morality for atheists answer explained atheists ideas morality strong held religious people you mean atheism characteristic moral code answer atheism not imply person will behave atheists follow moral rules theists for reasons atheists view morality created humans humans feel world work set rules decreed supernatural aren atheists theists denying god study freedom religion foundation found that atheists responded atheists religion not work for had found that religious beliefs fundamentally incompatible observed atheists not unbelievers ignorance denial unbelievers choice vast majority spent time studying religions sometimes great depth made careful and considered decision reject religious beliefs this decision inevitable consequence that individual personality for naturally sceptical person choice atheism that makes sense and choice that person can honestly make don atheists want god atheists live lives watching desire watched matter good natured big brother figure atheists god things true risks such approach obvious atheists decide that wanting not evidence for belief atheists evidence for existence god unwilling souls not atheists previously religious explained vast majority considered possibility that god exists atheists spent time prayer reach god true that atheists lack open mind assuming that atheists biased and insincere offensive and closed minded comments such god you aren properly likely viewed patronizing you engage philosophical debate atheists vital that you give benefit doubt and assume that sincere that searched for god you not willing that basically telling truth debate futile isn life completely pointless atheist atheists live purposeful life decide meaning life and pursue goals make lives count not wishing for eternal life influence people will live for example atheist dedicate life political reform hope leaving mark history natural human tendency for meaning purpose random events means obvious that life sort thing that meaning put another not question sensible thing atheists that asking meaning life silly asking meaning cup coffee that life purpose meaning atheists find comfort time danger ways obtaining comfort family friends even pets spiritual level food drink that sound empty and vulnerable face danger individuals things comforting face reality matter harsh end decision for individual concerned atheists unable not makes feel comfortable put truth comfort and that searching for truth sometimes makes feel unhappy that hard luck don atheists worry that suddenly shown wrong short answer you atheists atheists for years encountered arguments and supposed evidence for existence god found invalid inconclusive thousands years religious belief haven resulted good proof existence god atheists tend feel that proved wrong future and stop worrying theists question beliefs don arguments apply beliefs questioned not similar weak atheism sceptical default position asserts nothing strong atheism negative belief theism strong positive belief atheists sometimes argue that theists question beliefs real harm can not believers sort harm religion represents huge financial and work burden mankind not matter religious believers wasting money church buildings time and effort spent building churches praying and imagine that effort spent theists miracle healing plenty instances ill people healed priest ceasing medicines prescribed doctors and dying result theists died refused blood transfusions religious grounds arguable that catholic church opposition birth control and condoms increasing problem overpopulation world countries and contributing spread aids world wide religious believers murder children children become atheists marry religion weren real believers claimed believers sort excuse makes real believer true religions hard christianity competing groups convinced that true christians sometimes even fight and kill each atheist supposed decide real christian and isn even major christian churches catholic church and church england can decide end atheists pragmatic view and decide that calls christian and christian belief dogma justify actions considered christian christians perverting christian teaching for ends surely bible can readily used support christian acts can moral code bible word god couldn made easy misinterpret and you that your beliefs aren perversion your god intended single unambiguous interpretation bible atheist interpretation another your claims that believes jesus and that murdered jesus and bible told call christian extreme sorts beliefs questioned since proved that god not exist that basic religious beliefs shared faiths nonsense that not hold pointed start this dialogue positive assertions existence entities inherently harder disprove negative proved that unicorns don exist that doesn make that myths valid hold negative assertion default hold positive assertion default weak atheists argue that asserting nothing atheism great theists popularity belief correct whether works people astrology graphology and pseudo sciences atheists feel that simply human weakness want gods primitive human societies religion people deal phenomena that not adequately understand religion that industrialized world find people believing religious explanations phenomena even perfectly adequate natural explanations religion started means attempting explain world nowadays serves purposes cultures developed religions surely that not religions superficially similar for example worth remembering that religions such buddhism and taoism lack sort concept god christian sense religions quick denounce competing religions odd use religion and justify another famous scientists and philosophers concluded that god exists for scientist philosopher believes god not pointed truth belief not determined people important realize that atheists not view famous scientists philosophers that theists view religious leaders famous scientist human expert fields talks matters words carry special weight respected scientists made foolish speaking subjects lie fields expertise you that widespread belief religion nothing not that religion question properties helped spread theory memetics talks memes sets ideas can propagate human minds analogy genes atheists view religions sets successful parasitic memes spread encouraging hosts convert memes avoid destruction discouraging believers questioning doctrine peer pressure time believers admitting that mistaken religious memes even encourage hosts destroy hosts controlled memes memetic view virtue associated successful propagation meme religion not good thing number people disease good thing number people caught even religion not true puts across important messages fundamental messages atheism important ideas atheists promote don surprised ideas present religions moral behaviour mindlessly rules sceptical positive claims you want your life sort meaning you find search for true even makes you uncomfortable make your life you good relying external power change you you change popular doesn mean good you assume assume easy test don things you want true and finally and importantly beliefs open question for taking time read this article mathew for information pgp send mail pgpinfo mantis
alt.atheism	gospel dating article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes john quite not necessarily elaborated theology evidence that luke and that content not canonized form this argument you elaborate argument follows oid quotes john not almost codified matthew luke considered similar point knowledge such and not source assuming that knew luke put luke and give evidence for assumption don this follows you traditional attributions luke john john elder figure case talking spans time range lifetimes talking date texts not age authors usual explanation for time order mark matthew and luke not respective ages matthew read text mark and luke that matthew and that mark assumed that john knew content luke text evidence for that not overwhelming admittedly earlier manuscripts john discovered interesting and dated haven info hand late early and possibly shed doubt order putting john rest don your point exactly james felder had hand knowledge events and obvious that two used older texts base account and even association luke paul mark peter not generally accepted genuine letter peter close wouldn original together card sender and receiver fine that supposed missing and don step removed source that bad luke and mark and matthew learned stories directly diciples cannot sort big transformation jesus gospel that people posit news reports generally gets information this and john diciple nothing that john disciple not generally accepted style and language together theology used counterargument argument that john disciple relies claim gospel john evidence for step and generation removed bad even times compare that reports similar events century almost illiterate societies not even speak that believers not necessarily sources obvious that mark edited oldest manuscripts knowledge can antiquated oldest quite estimates and not even complete clear editing problem ending and basically hopeless mess oldest versions give strong sense incompleteness point shortest versions break midsentence obvious solution that point part text lost material verse pretty and represent synopsys end luke words not original mark and arguments based mark pretty weak that connected redating john benedikt
alt.atheism	university violating separation church state dmn kepler unh edu kings become philosophers philosophers become kings writes recently ras ordered and resisted cared apparently post religious flyer entitled soul scroll thoughts religion spirituality and matters soul inside bathroom stall doors school university hampshire sort newsletter assembled hall director campus poses question spirituality each issue and solicits responses included issue pretty vague assume put christian careful not mention jesus bible heard defend doesn support religion this state university and strong supporter separation church and state enraged can this sounds screaming for parody give copy your friendly neighbourhood subgenius preacher luck run mental mincer and hand you back outrageously offensive and gut bustingly funny parody you can paste originals can stool scroll thoughts religion spirituality and matters colon you can use this text wipe mathew
alt.atheism	soc motss princeton axes matching funds for boy scouts article apr harder ccr ida org harder ccr ida org bob mcgwier writes hate economic terrorism and political correctness worse hate this policy effective approach stop donating organizating that directly indirectly supports gay rights issues end boycott funding scouts can reconcile apparent contradiction and rob strom strom watson ibm ibm research mill river road box yorktown heights
alt.atheism	visit jehovah witnesses article apr batman bmd trw jbrown batman bmd trw writes didn you lucifer created perfect nature define perfect you playing usual game make sweeping statements omni holy perfect and don note that mean exactly and that that you not use this terms leads contradictions not play games understand that coming completely point view such atheism your foot your mouth wondered that catholic christian fact that contradiction unresolvable reasons atheist believed similar sentences for long time that shows power religion and not claims god prevented lucifer fall taking ability choose moral alternatives worship god worship that mean that god error make lucifer free will place exactly god evil evil that opinion premise point view not premise true specifically that evil evil occur follows definition evil ordinarily used letting evil happen allowing evil place this place even causing evil another evil you give definition free will presence omniscient will determination words god created conscious beings ability choose moral choices independently god will free will omniscient attribute god will creatures will even omnipotent created choice left events fixed not even for omniscient extend argument james tims god omniscient creating beings free moral choice greater good emergence ungodliness evil sin since created knowing outcome advance greater good evil knowledge that will happen not make unipolar system possibility good not good that not necessarily imply evil logically your god not not that such logically god restrains free choice choose evil and simply not good can that free moral choice and good defined loving and obeying god and avoiding behaviors god prohibits can you that not good not evil not that not good evil logically and not omnipotent can free will you choices and scenario you define free will imagine can good beings cannot harm easily implemented making object good deeds don make long for can not feel absence good evil case arguing conceivable omnipotent can not omnipotent you want logically consistent you give pet idea omnipotent deletion perhaps weak speculating ubiquitous pink unicorns basis for such speculation this idea god didn fall blue reading science fiction fantasy that will disagree bible describes god omniscient and nevertheless created beings free moral choice definitional logic follows that not mind amount evidence that god exists and that biblical description fair that evidence bolsters argument view that bible describes omniscient and omnipotent god destroys credibility bible nothing and lot people interested evidence for god can definitions benedikt
alt.atheism	political atheists arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes motto originated star spangled banner that this atheists motto coins originated mccarthyite smear equated atheism communism and called unamerican didn motto coins since civil war required currency keith
alt.atheism	anecdote islam article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes victimized muslims victimize not true muslims muslims quite annoying don understand point this petty sarcasm basic principle islam that born muslim testify that god god and mohammad prophet god that long not explicitly reject islam word considered muslim muslims phenomenon you attempting make into general rule psychology direct odds basic islamic principles you want attack islam you argue that islam explicitly contradicts criticism islam for change criticism arguments used whenever people you identify muslims victims attacks used argument for bad situation muslims whenever deeds muslim that victimize named not count argument people not true muslims mention made muslims bad situation another party double standards benedikt
alt.atheism	political atheists reference line trimmed livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes good deal confusion you started assertion that objective morality and you admit you finished recursive definition murder objectively immoral eactly murder and not requires appeal morality you switch targets you asking goal you mean goal you suggesting that objective goal and form morals achieve for example goal natural morality survival and propogation species another example moral system presented declaration independence states that guaranteed life liberty and pursuit happiness you moral system define purpose system that moral end murder violation golden rule and thought had defined murder intentional killing murderer will and you responded this asking whether not execution innocent person system capital punishment murder not fail this never claimed that system morality objective thought that your claim that kind objective morality and that example that that murder wrong you don want claim that that fine murder violates golen rule pillar moral system not assuming that current system and manner implementation objectively moral that good approximation can perfect and you don understand difference arbitrary and objective keith schneider defines murder this that and that arbitrary jon livesey personal system morality killing humans will murder and wrong and legal definition murder usa kuweit saudi arabia prc matters not whit objective assume system based clear and fundamental concepts arbitary implies clear line reasoning keith
alt.atheism	pompous ass kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes people asking questions and you rarely answer nope answered each question posed and answered multiple times keith
alt.atheism	pompous ass livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes long motto stay becomes default cutoff point don exact cutoff years and surely years notion default not into account population makeup specifically you talking you arguing that motto interpreted offensive larger portion population years ago keith
alt.atheism	keith schneider stealth poster sandvik newton apple kent sandvik writes borrow philosophy you don understand color red you not true even you experienced color red you interpretation you wouldn red and you couldn judge subjectively and objectivity not applicable since you wanting discuss merits red keith
alt.atheism	keith schneider stealth poster arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes you discuss merits racism psycholgical benefits you experienced personally you speak experiencing religion you mean religion that and this pretty impossible ideal for religion and determine thought suits this not not that religion warrants belief belief carries psychological benefits psychological burdens you speak experiencing racism you mean that racism that racist things for parallelism you meant odd usage phrase psychological benefits gained racism fully understood judged persons believing racism parallel happens poor you originated keith
alt.atheism	political atheists bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes you don that capital punishment wrong isn shooting analogy that you continue drive your car realizing that sooner killed automobile accident you people killed result driving you continue you not that you will killing not drive car had sufficient evidence conclude that necessarily kill lifetime and thinks you thinks that involved fatal accident likelihood surprisingly high you man firing squad gun shooting blanks not mean that you guilty don jon taking human life murder and murder wrong situation action that will prevent another murder another you mean that killing wrong situtation and you note that that situation will never occur options killing don you that killing wrong this basically you getting bit tired your probabilistic arguments you attempting condescending that system works pretty small consolation poor innocent bastard getting lethal injection your personal human life based solely statistical approach you sound unswerving adherent outweighing fuck people found risk acceptable you likely die plane crash even electric blender you executed innocent personally that risk acceptable ideal moral system such risk acceptable acceptable fudge factor such approximation ideal keith
alt.atheism	political atheists bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes that people approve death penalty even realizing shortcomings doesn this make reasonable you sole judge reasonability revenge merits you find capital punishment talking majority people that support that revenge fairness people favor punishment murderer punished people that that deserves people wouldn fair for murderer live victim died revenge petty and pathetic perhaps you that petty and pathetic your views minority local televised hot topic talk show that recently segment capital punishment each and advocate use this portion system jurisprudence cited main reason for supporting that bastard deserved true human compassion forgiveness and sympathy required compassion forgiveness and sympathy wrongs will great lengths make that advantage removed similar situation forced kills another can apply golden rule and kill this person turn not entire moral system based such concept you stating that human life sacred and that never violated this sound sort religious view mean reasonable imprisonment you person released found innocent you can undo imiprisonment that served perhaps shouldn imprision people watch closely cost similar implanted sort electronic device you alive prison dead chair once criminal committed murder desires irrelevant and you not answered question you concerned death penalty due possibility execution innocent isn this concern shared imprisonment shouldn your logic administer minimum punishment avoid violating liberty happiness innocent person keith
alt.atheism	political atheists bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes kill this person innocent person convicted murder murder committed not murderer wouldn considered murderer reasonable introduced fudge factor account for inability totally objective due lack absolutely true information society collective decides carry burden executing citizens carries blame for innocent blood each and voter casts ballot favor capital punishment part guilty murder each and innocent victim system people favor system blame society accepts such system each member society blame innocent person gets executed that not favor work convince and members society accepted blame considered risk acceptable similarly person drives accept blame for fatal traffic accidents this that surely happen people driving question risk acceptable likely that innocent person will killed driving that will executed keith
alt.atheism	don innocents die death penalty article psilink psilink james tims writes maintaining classes and even prison place innocent people higher risk unjust death state executed classes and occasional error answer position that place people prison for life that depends not predisposition murder success rate escape and ability commit crimes words lifetime imprisonment doesn work perhaps not not executing people not careful lock bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	ancient islamic rituals article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes propose that two trends greater level general depression society and psychological problems and greater sexual promiscuity linked prime cannot provide evidence this this stage thesis reasonable and request that people ponder damn you can provide evidence for rarely widespread social phenomenon reducible such simple premise psychology hard science roughly mathematical soundness physics your premise likely that reflects your socialization and religious background your validate your religious beliefs pretend answers and don that xenophobia guilt and intolerance brought adherence fundamentalist religions play large role depressing members society your mileage varies bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	political atheists article apr blaze jhu edu arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes article fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes that innocent person killed sense bad feel that punish for single murder reform system reducing number deaths produce system not back system even introduce single extra death bob that bad sense somewhat stronger you argument that sole purpose death penalty kill people that primary and argue purpose continue kill people practice that almost utility you you will killing innocents unconscionable existence prison system and transportation system based merits society not detriments willing accept lost innocent lives overwhelming benefit continued existence systems stretch evidence and arguments make claim for capital punishment case wasn clear maintain capital punsihment system that kills innocent people and net positive gain you pin corner and respond that don belief state life won open that debate tiring this thread bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	creator article drporter suvm syr edu drporter suvm syr edu brad porter writes science wonderful answering questions not type question scientific findings personally find theory evolution unfathomable humans highly evolved complex organism that thinks learns and develops organism that resulted random genetic mutations and natural selection stuff deleted computers excellent example evolution creator not create computers not create sand that into silicon that into integrated circuits that into processor board things and put together interesting plants create oxygen light photosynthesis bigger leap talk that created nothing find unfathomable resort believing creator simpler alternative exists simply incapable understanding beginnings even beginnings and that present perfectly busy jim halat
alt.atheism	americans and evolution article rpi edu johnsd jec rpi edu dan johnson writes article maine maine edu maine maine edu writes dan johnson you don this hand bravo for beautiful simply beautiful jim halat
alt.atheism	speculations article rusnews mantis mathew mathew mantis writes nanci ann miller andrew cmu edu writes this god omnipotent you folks claim can terminate eternity for reason can flibble glop ork groink thing you demanding that meaning terms this classic example excessive faith reason fact that trouble talking doesn imply that impossible simply implies that hard talk good chance that god can flibble glop ork groink charlie wingate can flibble glop ork groink and isn even god doug graham dgraham bnr opinions
alt.atheism	political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes fun debate capital punishment this wrong group for relevance that you don capital punishment and murder that you murder wrong you term you not defined that innocent person executed this objectively murder blame another question that entire society that sanctions sorts executions realizing risks blame probability killing innocent person shooting random into air and probability killing innocent person state administers system capital punishment you you that actions you taking will sooner result killing innocent person probablity that you will kill raondom activity you had not isolated totally rest society this and driving will kill people will airlines people continue driving and flying not punishments inflicted unwilling prisoners courts risks that ourselves willingly and argue that law system similar risk perhaps innocent person will punished someday work prevent this fact criminals free result prevent punishment innocents driving kills moral issue person involved fatal accident and felt vey guilty such accidents totally expected numner vehicals road blame society not this you you that such false witness that resulted innocent person convicted and killed fault state since actual killing commented that state killing not depend false witnesses state killing even case sincere mistakes state not fault such case state can prevent false witnesses you that capital punishment murder possibilty human error invalidating system capital punishment murder period not this that and involves taking human life that definition murder make appeals dictionaries objective morals this you call murder question whether not such murders wrong you that taking human life wrong matter circumstances society decide murder that and lists reasons for and live moral consequences not play word games and pretend that murder isn murder and that opinion society run this basically works society accepts risk that innocent person will murdered execution and member society shares this blame and people definitions murder include sort malicious intent not involved execution discuss objective moral system possibilty ramifications your personal system objective not discussing objective moral system showing you that you didn for thing you incapable defining terms for example murder murder violates golden rule executions not allowing society implicitly accepts consequences matter innocent victim not talking reading minds talking knowing truth can never absolutely that truth court systems work principle knowing truth reasonable doubt you simply not quoting accurately you and since totally objectively this case people thinking voting execute person not intent malicious and unfair execution murder you slide into another claim quite jury persuaded doubt not knowing minds doubt reading minds jury whether not conviction moral not objective system absolute truth matters and jury system method approximate such truth that twelve members convinced truth jury comes sufficiently prejudiced background persuaded doubt evidence that you and laugh read minds people that conviction unfair perfectly fair read minds assume that fair knew absolute truth fair your opinion good approximation absolute truth not question fairness your claim quoted claim whether can fair distinguish capital punishnment murder objectively determine difference knew information can determine difference flawed system that system almost good isn objectively perfect you doesn matter fair not objectively fair not huge difference can read minds can and cannot read minds can nothing difference not degree fairness can effect objective system produce fairly objective system clear goals supposed promote not waste time devise system that pretty not exist you simply want people confront reality reality remember your reality important this case reality that ideal theories apart can never even fact fairness justice system for innocent person released death row dozen innocent people executed hundred simply don can assume that system fairly decent likely and you realize that correctness system nothing totally ideal and objective system hand can pretend that ideal theory and that can things can never and justie system fair and that can wave magic wand and make types killing not murder and can ideal system working system can not ideal can hope create system that close approximation ideal system hand can recognize that justice small hope probability punishing innocent and that end bear moral responsibility even for probabilistic consequences systems set and murdering will even gee this strictly bear responsibility people willing this that second preferable that requires people face moral consequences society sheltering ourselves magic ceremonies and word games realize consequences actions you separating justice system pack and forget don objective moral system and that idea presents evidence don country objective system such objective system can exist theory omniscience objective system not practice keith
alt.atheism	political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes comes keith schneider and objective moral system and start definitions that this objective system depends and predictably thing falls apart falls apart you attempt apply this doesn mean that objective system can exist means that cannot implemented keith
alt.atheism	university violating separation church state article kepler unh edu dmn kepler unh edu kings become philosophers philosophers become kings writes recently ras ordered and resisted cared apparently post religious flyer entitled soul scroll thoughts religion spirituality and matters soul inside bathroom stall doors school university hampshire sort newsletter assembled hall director campus post deleted respond religious postings stop dana easy post flyers stall doors add bottom nice large capitals emergency toilet paper robert mellish fog email mellish net irc hobnob and mrs joyful prize for rafia work
alt.atheism	usatoday family values article rzz unix portal danb shell portal dan babcock writes funny usatoday american family association post choice parts for your enjoyment emphases not adding typos mine dan article deleted found add local sunday newspaper add cartoon section perfect place for
alt.atheism	islamic authority women article apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes claim that person that committs crime doesn god for moment that crime committed whether originally believers not good your statistics people that declared atheism and doubtless atheist act charity temporarily become baptist jon
alt.atheism	ancient islamic rituals article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes propose that two trends greater level general depression society and psychological problems and greater sexual promiscuity linked prime cannot provide evidence this this stage thesis reasonable and request that people ponder pondered for ten seconds realised that since don reliable statistics for sexual promiscuity and since issue depression isn defined for earlier centuries you talking crap you pull mozumder and that people sex marriage defined depressed can noticed jon
alt.atheism	soc motss princeton axes matching funds for boy scouts article apr cbnewsl att stank cbnewsl att stan krieger writes can use rec scouting for purpose for established netnews voters decided that not want provide scouting newsgroup give fringe groups forum for anti societal political views this thing will comment stan this time part this forum call rec scouting for policy discussions and related topics this policy discussion and involves related topics this not fringe group discussion engenders strong feelings sides issues hand wether view anti societal not your opinion and alone don make you not engage this discussion use kill file you continue this discussion knowing full implications that apply for that plan continuing discussion input for tired people that this not matter significant for this group and quite for feel impact closely dominick zurlo world www oyster eagle scout allergic mollusks blacklisted
alt.atheism	political atheists mathew mathew mantis writes for rape surely burden guilt solely rapist not you thrown into cage tiger and mauled you blame tiger keith
alt.atheism	political atheists mathew mathew mantis writes perhaps shouldn imprision people watch closely cost similar implanted sort electronic device wait commit crime not implant such devices potential criminals communists and atheists don follow your reasoning you proposing punish people commit crime justification you for this keith
alt.atheism	enviroleague alternative scouting for unacceptable bsa for reasons religious sexual preference boyd critz iii compuserve subject enviroleague birth announcement march earth forum compuserve information service formal announcement enviroleague youth movement enviroleague recently born founder boyd critz iii cis peoria illinois enviroleague exists for education youth male and female matters values related and responsibility for environment incorporated illinois not for profit corporation articles and initial applications for service mark filed critz draft bylaws statement mission and objectives mission mission enviroleague and adult members foster and implement improved education young people conduct lives stewards earth leave earth condition found and act responsible moral and ethical users environment pursue accomplishment this mission enviroleague seek serve catalyst focusing common separate efforts groups desiring preservation improvement and responsible use environment live objectives pursuit mission enviroleague primary objectives establish movement involving environmentally concerned organizations movement primary focus education and participatory involvement young people areas environmental concern develop and provide such organizations and branches full complement program materials for use including suitable uniforms insignia and badges written ideas syllabi and information literature and items and desirable serve clearing house for exchange program ideas materials and information organizations and assist environmentally concerned organizations recruit and train adult leadership for youth programs enviroleague will operate program divisions serving youth elementary middle and high school grades service formation enviroleague teams enviroleague environmentally conscious organizations local branches wishing charter use programs developed enviroleague enviroleague develops will controlled actual adult leaders each local team and will nationally imposed obstacles membership adult leadership status not based relevant improper conduct organizations accepting charter impose additional standards for use program material such organizations enviroleague will commit forming nearby teams such restrictions youth membership enviroleague will operate principle that youth will contribute developing programs top youth leaders teams for middle and high school youth become involved governing local administrative groups and for high school youth involved similar functions national level program materials development this time copies draft portions mentor manual manual for adult leadership will earth forum library files will updated development takes place compuserve proud that enviroleague founder chose this electronic medium make public announcement formation this announcement made simultaneously outdoor and earth forums electronic home enviroleague compuserve earth forum earth message and library areas named enviroleague subsequently enviroleague initial governance council held meeting boyd critz elected enviroleague chief guardian equivalent chairman board ceo can reached home case real mail can addressed enviroleague box peoria interested starting enviroleague team establish contact receive diskette ibm dos ascii initial information cdt rocket stratus you that speak for company cdt vos stratus write today for special investors packet
alt.atheism	idle questions for fellow atheists atheists care speculate face world atheists majority minority group population ridiculous question ways newsreader not getting postings for bit figure post atheists stance and accor higher thinking theistic thinking typical selfish argument that lines thinking evolved inherent motivation not intrinsically qualitatively measuring stick drawn and cannot assign system beliefs core alternative apply periphery expresses selfishness idle thoughts adam adam john cooper verily laughed weaklings thought good simply acooper macalstr edu had claws
alt.atheism	americans and evolution article apr dcs warwick simon dcs warwick simon clippingdale writes deleted alt atheism tend recognise two categories atheism function format due mathew mantis weak not gods strong not gods deleted strong atheist and quibble your assertion that strong position requires faith that god commonly described theists exist this belief opinion formed basis observation including amount introspection fully accept that wrong and will swayed suitably convincing evidence that gods exist this not imply faith part that that that gods exist fact not believing god gods will argue that your statement that gods exist rest faith that you making positive statement that gods exist strong atheism don and don and don not weak atheism once not god that god not exist maintain position even reading faqs that strong atheism requires faith language problem regards faith and existence christian maintain that god not exist exist means space and time god not god kierkegaard once that god not exist eternal this feel pointless debate called existence god and that not that god source and ground you that god not exist accept this statement mean two things follows will use phrase existence god usual sense and this sense that you clarification you mean existence god differ means faith webster faith allegiance duty person loyalty fidelity promises sincerity intentions belief and trust and loyalty god belief traditional doctrines religion firm belief for proof complete trust that believed esp strong conviction esp system religious beliefs syn belief can never prove that god not exist you that you god not exist and that this opinion based observation will observtions you refering observations pro con that valid establishing positive belief observations can point you direction direction that even predisposed predisposed mean for example people whoes partents god tend draw conclusion existence existence god requires leap and you made this leap you actively that god not exist personally that statements misguided arguing existence god precisely wrong find and use personal god viable concept imo person use ahead god choice anthropomorphise you want explain glad and not agree even violently disagree advantage start name calling person thinks misunderstood faqs not read point error ways and correct situation interested polite and thought discussion cheers simon simon clippingdale simon dcs warwick department computer science tel university warwick fax coventry bob singleton bobs thnext mit edu
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes horrible deaths resulted atheism quite horrible deaths result atheists and theists bobby can list quite for atheist side fails recognize that theists equally proficient genocide perhaps since bit weak history somone give list wars caused led theists can hitler claimed christian for example complete list effective showing bobby absurd statement peace side note notice you sign your posts peace perhaps you your advice and leave atheists peace beliefs bobby mozumder nanci you and author this quote send email andrew cmu edu lying ourselves deeply ingrained lying
alt.atheism	dear theist west cville wam umd edu stilgar writes means full quote michael crichton jurrasic park earth existed quite contently for billions years for blink eye and tomorrow earth not miss remember this quote humble thinking that progressed that masters this planet cool quote earth doesn saving existed quite happily saving watch theists will jump you for that brian west this not sig file earth this not sig file for blink sig file eye tomorrow posted west wam umd edu not missed doesn care jurassic park diclaimer this meant this made nanci you and author this quote send email andrew cmu edu lying ourselves deeply ingrained lying
alt.atheism	political atheists turn jump article innq gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes reference line trimmed livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes good deal confusion you started assertion that objective morality and you admit you finished recursive definition murder objectively immoral eactly murder and not requires appeal morality you mean circular not recursive that semantics recursiveness problems horribly inefficient assembly programmer you switch targets you asking goal you mean goal you suggesting that objective goal and form morals achieve for example goal natural morality survival and propogation species another example moral system presented declaration independence states that guaranteed life liberty and pursuit happiness you moral system define purpose system that moral end oft quoted line that people guaranteed life liberty and pursuit happiness inalienable rights complete lie and deception authors that line process proving liberty never free purchased cost almost cost another whos liberty inalienable similarly for life person die save another even group whos life inalienable that leads into classic question death penalty for serial killers whos life and liberty valuable serial killer victim that beautiful line two rights completely inviolate that remove this includes government admittedly serial killer restricted people life and liberty not life liberty inviolate declaration independence murder violation golden rule and thought had defined murder intentional killing murderer will oooh that means that killing infant not murder cannot will reason infant will such similarly for people brain dead easier coma etc current law accidental killing murder will you include that and you responded this asking whether not execution innocent person system capital punishment murder not fail this never claimed that system morality objective thought that your claim that kind objective morality and that example that that murder wrong you don want claim that that fine real golden rule life gold makes rules makes that survival wrong that murder violates golen rule pillar moral system not assuming that current system and manner implementation objectively moral that good approximation can perfect you mean golden rule stated almost system implemented used that reality don deal fiction reality and you don understand difference arbitrary and objective keith schneider defines murder this that and that arbitrary jon livesey personal system morality killing humans will murder and wrong and legal definition murder usa kuweit saudi arabia prc matters not whit ozland not arbitrary you can find part society societal rules morals etc that not arbitrary don objective assume system based clear and fundamental concepts arbitary implies clear line reasoning keith sounds euphemisms difference that objective reasoning that arbitrary reasoning that don don understand
alt.atheism	radical agnostic not and jcopelan nyx edu wrote article bgsu edu andy bgsu edu pixie writes post bug zoo bgsu means that can possibly prove doubt that god not exist means lacking this ability absolute proof atheist becomes act faith and and this cannot accept accept nothing blind faith invisible pink flying unicorns question meant atheist familiar example importance meaning word follows two statements consistent not that you wearing lilac socks not that you not wearing lilac socks two statements not consistent that you wearing lilac socks that you not wearing lilac socks statements and require faith make presumptions nature reality statements and require belief atheists included position not that god not that not god that harbor beliefs good evidence for god existing not folks call this agnosticism not suffer blind faith don worry happy
alt.atheism	maddi created image gaea pinnacle creation creates births continues cut religious crap woman and sexism that started road atheism maddi hausmann madhaus netcom centigram communications corp san jose california kids don this home remember post professionally
alt.atheism	wrong and article trmetu bitnet trmetu bitnet writes turkish guy had atheism satenism and buddism instant hislife finally decided islambecause facts intend write point view you atheists people dropped deep dark and thinking reality dusty walls you had looked bit upward you blue skies you dsee truth you close your eyes allah god and mohammed mess ager generate entropy means theology and thermodynamics hat your point view problem kiss that spark generated for formation universe formed tself you bothering big bang spa bit and return reality universe isla this bit bobby atheism false stuff this universe cyclical brendan dunn
alt.atheism	political atheists bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes and even that argument doesn stand costs execute criminal this country feed clothe and shelter for remainder natural life people this fault judicial system find greatest virtues assume that you talking appeals processes etc noted that people imprisoned for life will tend appeal not quite final hours economics not good reason favor oppose punishment keith
alt.atheism	americans and evolution article apr skyblu ccit arizona edu lippard skyblu ccit arizona edu james lippard writes article mar juliet caltech edu lmh juliet caltech edu henling lawrence writes atheism greek not theos god belief that god agnosticism greek not gnostein belief that not determine god agnosticism you defined positive belief belief that not determine existence gods that belief inclined reject you defined atheism positive belief that god fairly large number atheists alt atheism reject this definition holding that atheism simply absence belief god michael martin atheism philosophical justification distinguishes strong atheism mistake will newer dictionary and read follow line larry henling lmh shakes caltech edu
alt.atheism	political atheists reference line trimmed ssauyet eagle wesleyan edu scott sauyet writes make assumption that you agree that murderer commited murder that murderer intentionally committed murder for instance you put bullet into gun that thought blanks and killed such gun person performed action isn murderer guess this made clear below definition interested reasonable definition you mean reasonable your inductive definition doesn bottom your definition essence that murder intentional killing not commited murder will expanding second occurence murder that bad include word defined definition even series recursively infinite meaning can deduced assume you can problem correct inductive definition you define terms simpler case and you bottoming cases for instance can define factorial function function assigns positive integer product positive integers equal positive integers inductively follows math lesson deleted this situation suppose longstanding feud two families claim that committed travesty distant past each time member family kills member family thinks that justified killing that member family suppose that this sequence occurred infinite number times you don dealing infinities suppose that member family back into time and essentially begins thing that never ending loop slayings based existent travesty you resolve this murders suppose that this isn totally applicable your problem reduce uninduced system and case nested murderer definition murder cannot infintely recursive finite existence humanity and murder cannot committed killing involved person intentionally killed necessarily murderer this induction solve apparently unreducable definition totally objective system information such nested definition isn problem keith
alt.atheism	political atheists article pigidinnsot gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes mathew mathew mantis writes for rape surely burden guilt solely rapist not you thrown into cage tiger and mauled you blame tiger human greater control actions predominately instictive tiger proper analogy you thrown into cage person and mauled you blame that person providing that that person responsible frame mind not clinicaly insane pcb etc thing that relates navy men that tatoos that mom love mom makes for virile men bobby mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu april true muslim left world
alt.atheism	idle questions for fellow atheists article apr mac macalstr edu acooper mac macalstr edu writes atheists care speculate face world atheists majority minority group population problems slight shift emphasis weekends not inviolate common work days week business and american atheists similar religious organizations persons religious belief crutch and justification for actions guide determine actions people come fascinating rationalizations for actions that fun watch that for people religion america doesn matter that you extreemists ends large majority don make issue long you don admittedly never had suffer bible belt north and fringes and reasonable people things tend reasonable religion atheists stance and accor higher thinking theistic thinking typical selfish argument that lines thinking evolved inherent motivation not intrinsically qualitatively measuring stick drawn and cannot assign system beliefs core alternative apply periphery expresses selfishness don bother higher thinking anybodys thinking don want fall that trap you start that you decide and inferior modes thinking idic infinite diversity infinite combinations argue soda not inflation
alt.atheism	problem satan used islamic authority women article apr news unomaha edu trajan cwis unomaha edu stephen mcintyre writes bobby states that satan free will that god this brings host paradoxes god evil free will god directing god evil part infinite good and evil etc for once solid answer not run hope gave you fairly solid answer this simply don agree embodied version satan separate creation force wrote belief ascribe that evil not creation absence good this fits logic things dual use knife can used sculpt and can used kill entropy evil this view force entity satan metaphorical fact verses holy qur support this view and traditions for example tradition that food never left open shelf table overnight satan enter appears that this reference undiscovered germs evil effect spoiled food described satan examples satan personified and quite physical descriptions heaven and hell holy qur bible etc times spiritual and intellectual evolution modern human physical descriptions heaven hell and satan quite literally and that worked for time mentioned tradition cited for example sufficient absence theory germs and disease spread worms simply describe evil passed consumer spoiled food satanic begs question satan this case metaphorical can you allah not bottom line that describing spiritual plane human language describing color person blind birth you want read book flatland you haven dragon egg intended light hearted description mathematical con cept deleted for space saving language fails cannot used adequately describe another dimension cannot experienced speakers such conventions metaphor allegory and come unseen described terms reference and meaning for reader listener models compro mise made speaking metaphorically clarity and directness meaning equivalence perception and crippled can you this asked you god exists spirit metaphorical mean satan metaphorical you justify this belief and justify that god not metaphor for this instances satan described such tormentor testament book job temptor testament gospels god described spirit metaphorical and not belief god isn bar evil case satanists even satan metaphorical satanist god justify this belief case god religious standards evil bobby this address this question deleted metaphor philosophizing this issue not that readers this newsgroup want delve into religious interpretation wishes discuss this willing line mail line posting stephen atheist libertarian pro individuality pro responsibility and that jazz
alt.atheism	soc motss princeton axes matching funds for boy scouts article pmjo inn lynx unm edu bevans carina unm edu mathemagician writes gay people that straight people don absolutely nothing straight arrow year male that involved bsa don care gay people each long don make passes summer camp work boss gay not pansy gay guys doesn push and give respect back due position bsa taught don tolerance met this guy thought gays faries bsa taught antibigot basically comes this you your business you violates civil rights
alt.atheism	gospel dating date mon apr gmt stilgar west cville wam umd edu article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes article apr wam umd edu west cville wam umd edu stilgar writes illiad undisputed word god prove wrong dispute ergo counter example you proven wrong dispute your counter example ergo counter counter example you wrong and nanny nanny boo boo tbbbbbbbtttttthhhhh this case temporary islam
alt.atheism	word advice article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes times that alternative that you caught and alternative point rationality isn alternative problems metaphysical and religious knowledge unsolvable humans cannot solve that can shouldn interrupt jim you washed your brain today
alt.atheism	god morality long jbrown batman bmd trw writes supernatural forces create pathogen you since diseases bad bad entity created you acid rain meteors falling sky volcanoes earthquakes and quote unquote acts god that not acts god natural occurrences amazes that you audacity that human creation not result natural process evolution act god and post that processes volcanos natural occurrences gave you choose things natural processes and direct acts god you that god doesn each and natural disaster specific purpose mind sadistic nature bible even satan had nothing original inception disease evolution random chance produced since humanity forsook god protection choose live apart god law humanity collectively come surprise that adverse consequences collective action that left deal disease and disorders inevitably result entropic universe this collective bullcrap coming collective referring idea that god works humanity two levels individually and collectively mankind decides undertake action majority mankind god will consequences that action affect mankind adam eve two people even tho had honor you christians claim two not represent majority billions and trillions people that come perhaps majority and you weren vote and perhaps voted differently that tree your god never asked assumes that you two bad people bad hmm sounds kind false generalization that theists posting resorting that shoulda jim nanci you and author this quote send email andrew cmu edu lying ourselves deeply ingrained lying
alt.atheism	islamic authority women article apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes that your mistake for children mother raised child thing that relates navy men that tatoos that mom love mom makes for virile men compare that homos raised study and you will point you claim that men stayed home and raised child that false made feminists that seek status men you not recognize fact that men and women natural differences not physically mentally your logic didn americans worlds problems atheists becuase code ethics follow means that atheists can want feel totally based feelings and feelings cloud rational thinking yeah didn that atheists bad that bad good nothing define bad good awright bobby back shit for brains glory thought turned corner progress thorazine prescription runs put kill file man this good stuff had staying power fortunately learned not long long long ago bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	islamic authority women article apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes peace bobby this hell your sig you learn stands for and mean bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	omnipotence speculations article psilink robert knowles psilink writes date fri apr nanci ann miller andrew cmu edu can god uncreate for violate nature cannot god nature exist statement inherent existence existence existence cannot not exist mentioned not omnipotent you mean omnipotent you mean omnipotent that god this creates contradictory definition omnipotence effectively useless descriptive omnipotence mean powerful and not illustrate analogy suppose united states nuclear power earth suppose that military not effectively countered nation group nations power into country time for reason straighten things leaders fit militarily omnipotent suppose that holds doctrine philosophy not interfering internal affairs nation such current civil war yugoslavian states technically this scenario power unilaterally into yugoslavia and straighten mess effectively not intervene violating policy interference policy interference held strongly never question that violated effectively limited had power wanted simply never want interfere for such idea consideration leaders such inviolate interference policy god effectively limited sense powerful cannot use power that violate essence hope this helps clear misunderstanding omnipotence regards jim
alt.atheism	islamic marriage article apr cadence mas cadence masud khan writes article qav austin ibm karner austin ibm karner writes you want name names official records pseudo marriages performed for convenience happens typically that woman willing move lover scruples legal contracts speak man utilizing loophole entering into temporary religious marriage contract order sex complains cares perhaps you alert your imam that this practice widespread you takes muslim men witness penetration decide practice exists you astound level ignorance you display muslims not allowed enter temporary marriages that evidence for outlawed practise your facts straight buddy give references for you lying not widespread you fantasise fact contrary your fantasies not practised muslims not your buddy second read wrote not talking muslims allowed practice muslim you don retort and tired not true muslims bullshit gave you names will you this information fatwa leashed perpetrators you honestly that voluntarily come forward and confess kind extremism shown your religionaries fat chance rate can conclusive proof nature act perhaps people that indulge this practice agree you theory hope that allah will forgive end arrogant you pretend speak for muslims this regard kind silly you insinuating that koranic law forbids criminals muslim countries this care this subject weakness your arguments for netters and disclaimer opinions expressed this posting mine solely and not represent employer karner aix technical support karner austin vnet ibm
alt.atheism	political atheists article innq gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes reference line trimmed livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes good deal confusion you started assertion that objective morality and you admit you finished recursive definition murder objectively immoral eactly murder and not requires appeal morality you switch targets you asking goal you mean goal you suggesting that objective goal and form morals achieve for example goal natural morality survival and propogation species this you mean goal hope you don mean imply that evolution conscious goal jon
alt.atheism	political atheists article pic linnrau gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes personal objection that find capital punishment cruel and unusual punishment circumstances can painless isn cruel and occurred frequently since dawn time unusual koff you mean that long put you sleep can kill you cruel this jon
alt.atheism	political atheists article pieg inns gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes comes keith schneider and objective moral system and start definitions that this objective system depends and predictably thing falls apart falls apart you attempt apply this doesn mean that objective system can exist means that cannot implemented not fact that can exist that bothers fact that you don define wanted hear indefinable things that principle exist long you don carefully religious person couldn jon
alt.atheism	pompous ass article btinnqa gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes people asking questions and you rarely answer nope answered each question posed and answered multiple times fifty dollars can answer your question big bang theory big bang theory recipe for cookies fifty dollars hey didn answers make sense jon
alt.atheism	pompous ass article jkinnqe gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes long motto stay becomes default cutoff point don exact cutoff years and surely years notion default not into account population makeup specifically you talking you arguing that motto interpreted offensive larger portion population years ago commenting that makes sense inherit default steam trains recently jon
alt.atheism	god morality long article apr batman bmd trw jbrown batman bmd trw responds lot grief article apr leland stanford edu galahad leland stanford edu scott compton sagemaster this relevant discussion answering john question genetic diseases and bacterial and viral diseases require babies develop antibodies god fault original question not scotty followup irrelevant original question this not unusual threads quickly evolve original topic not understand jim spent time responding regarded irrelevancies this collective bullcrap coming collective referring idea that god works humanity two levels individually and collectively mankind decides undertake action majority mankind guess hypothetical adam majority mankind man time god will consequences that action affect mankind you didn understand that apologize for not and two syllable words discussion understand you mean collective insane perversion justice sort judge punish descendants for crime committed ancestor you want that read your post and provide response send copy jim brown bmd trw can read day and posts slip admit that you read read bible days you missed couple good followups your post sending you personal copy followup hope you will respond publically john sageless
alt.atheism	jews can hide keith cco article apr bmerh bnr dgraham bmers bnr douglas graham writes article aaa fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes article apr bmerh bnr dgraham bmers bnr douglas graham writes jon ken previously people you your country jews not survive that sounds ken accusing guy nazi previous posting deleted this perfectly fine rant and agree completely issue hand whether not ken accused fellow germany nazi grant that not explicity make this accusation pretty damn close accusing guy sympathizing exterminate jews and that good for poster casually trashed two thousand years jewish history and ken replied that had previously people germany that people formally nazis nazi party active and tacit support ordinary man street behaved casual anti semitism perfectly acceptable exactly don you understand wrote and don you matter hand jon
alt.atheism	jews can hide keith cco article apr mac macalstr edu acooper mac macalstr edu writes article pint fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes germany country discriminate jews worst reputation job expressing general european dislike this not turn into debate antisemitism you point that luther antisemitism based religious grounds hitler racial grounds and wagnmer aesthetic grounds blanketing group poor analysis even bigots find intriguing remarks you give bit explanation for example religion anti semitic and aesthetic jon
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes ivt cfj fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes british blowing skyscrapers don you you implying that person accused blowing wtc and that islamic teachings blowing wtc replying person attempted justify fatwa rushdie grounds that work intentionally insulting that single sentence fairly long posting and don you you implying quite disingenuous and perhaps even dishonest care dig back and read full posting will nothing kind trust you don deny that islamic teaching fatwa rushdie jon
alt.atheism	anecdote islam article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes don understand point this petty sarcasm basic principle islam that born muslim testify that god god and mohammad prophet god that long not explicitly reject islam word considered muslim muslims phenomenon you attempting make into general rule psychology direct odds basic islamic principles you want attack islam you argue that islam explicitly contradicts mozumder incorrect that committing bad acts people temporarily become atheists jon
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes saddam believed god pray times day communism hand committed genocide name atheism lenin and stalin two die hard atheist pun and believed atheism integral part communism bobby stalin killed millions name socialism atheism characteristic lenin stalin version socialism nothing another characteristic lenin stalin socialism centralization food distribution you that stalin and lenin killed millions name rationing bread not horrible deaths resulted atheism earlier posts you stated that true muslim believers incapable evil suppose you that you reason that killed name religion perfect world you live bobby reasons that you atheist that you limit god giving god form god not face bobby referring obscure law good atheist handbook law xxvi give that you not face you excuse bobby argue theism argue christian idea god realm christianity man created god image kevin marshall sophomore computer science virginia tech blacksburg usa marshall csugrad edu
alt.atheism	list biblical contradictions joslin pogo isp pitt edu david joslin writes writes found list biblical contradictions and cleaned bit curious purpose people lists serve time atheists spend time paying attention bible face things your life used chuckle and snort silliness that book and absurdity people believing truth etc spend time mayan religion native americans heck native americans signifigantly interesting myths egyptians pay attention christianity accept religion and not mythology find accurate tolerant gets hard places book nose and tells special not carolyn
alt.atheism	visit jehovah witnesses apr mst jbrown batman bmd trw god eternal jesus god jesus eternal this works logically and mathematically god set things eternal jesus subset god jesus belongs set things eternal isn logical mercedes car that girl mercedes that girl car heikki
alt.atheism	political atheists article rusnews mantis mathew mantis mathew writes article apr blaze jhu edu arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes automobile system kills driving passengers not mention pedestrians you not drive even use car killed and kills system public transport favour banning private cars and replacing trains buses taxis bicycles and seconded cycle work each day and damned cars and cretinous drivers road lot fun jon
alt.atheism	political atheists article rusnews mantis mathew mantis mathew writes livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes and meaning people drive accept risks and contribute tax money design systems minimize risks systems minimize risks that you car drivers don want use called bicycles trains and buses poor matthew million posters call you car drivers and chooses car owner jon
alt.atheism	omnipotence speculations article apr batman bmd trw jbrown batman bmd trw writes article psilink robert knowles psilink writes date fri apr nanci ann miller andrew cmu edu can god uncreate for violate nature cannot god nature exist statement inherent existence existence existence cannot not exist mentioned not omnipotent you mean omnipotent you mean omnipotent that god this creates contradictory definition omnipotence effectively useless descriptive omnipotence mean powerful and not illustrate analogy suppose united states nuclear power earth suppose that military not effectively countered nation group nations power into country time for reason straighten things leaders fit militarily omnipotent you check afghans posting this disagree jon
alt.atheism	satanic mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes nanci ann miller writes favorite reply you literal minded complaint that bible inspired god and that important make damn translators and scribes and people interpreting and copying getting literally not put merit that corrupted and and man even originally inspired god corrupted and theory pretty weak comparison current hebrew text versions and translations shows that text fact changed space two millennia this shouldn that suprising people text this manner likely makes pains make good copies you honestly hold that tripe charley for start current versions bible make comparisons show that you write utter garbage witness mormon catholic anglican and greek orthodox bibles convince you you good library local library had king james compared brand hot god tongue good news bible genesis almost unrecognisable discrepencies gospels had edited good news bible fact god good news congenial fellow you king james and give you quotes headings haven changed jeff
alt.atheism	ancient islamic rituals cfaehl vesta unm edu chris faehl writes reasonable trend obesity and trend depression you can pick your two favorite trends notice correlation and make sweeping statement generality mean you can and people that not mean that valid reasonable thesis gross oversimplification push pull factors people experience agree reckon television and increase fundamentalism you increase pre marital sex thinks psychologists criminal justice system and violent criminals con into letting into streets increase designer drugs communist plot basically social interactions changing factors society complicated for control hold panic handles and hope that heading for soft landing things for depression and destruction nuclear family not due solely sex marriage jeff fred rice muslim giving point view darice yoyo monash edu cfaehl vesta unm edu
alt.atheism	americans and evolution article apr njitgw njit edu dmu hertz njit edu david utidjian eng sci writes article mar juliet caltech edu lmh juliet caltech edu henling lawrence writes for complete description and not atheism agnosticism faq for alt atheism alt answers utidjian remarque berkeley edu apologize for posting this thought talk origins definitions websters nonetheless apparent past arguments words imply that bimonthly and biweekly commonly accepted definitions and used care larry henling lmh shakes caltech edu
alt.atheism	jews can hide keith cco article aaa fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes article apr bmerh bnr dgraham bmers bnr douglas graham writes article pint fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes deletions jon ken previously people you your country jews not survive that sounds ken accusing guy nazi hitler and nazis didn spring fully formed forehead athena didn invent anti semitism built foundation anti semitism that present germany this foundation anti semitism laid not nazis people listed and hundreds years unthinking knee jerk bigotry part perfectly ordinary people and pastors and priests worry today not whether hollywood hitler black uniform come striding german stage unprepared step whether bedrock foundations anti semitism laid germany speak and will laid not hitlers and himmlers will come people poster question people that casual anti semitism acceptable even fun deletions suggest greatest respect that you read history jon you german poster remark anti semitic perhaps you imply that germany doesn agree israely policy nazi pray even qualify casual anti semitism term doesn apply bring your bigotry shining disclaimer opinions expressed this posting mine solely and not represent employer karner aix technical support karner austin vnet ibm
alt.atheism	omnipotence speculations article apr batman bmd trw jbrown batman bmd trw writes god effectively limited sense powerful cannot use power that violate essence cannot will not thing that relates navy men that tatoos that mom love mom makes for virile men bobby mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu april true muslim left world
alt.atheism	visit jehovah witnesses article suopanki apr stekt oulu suopanki stekt oulu heikki suopanki writes god eternal jesus god jesus eternal this works logically and mathematically god set things eternal jesus subset god jesus belongs set things eternal isn logical mercedes car that girl mercedes that girl car this not strickly correct incorrect application rules language work mercedes premis and second not mercedes your case and not equal name person name object you can not simply extract word taking context into account your case doesn imply that case equal thing that relates navy men that tatoos that mom love mom makes for virile men bobby mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu april true muslim left world
alt.atheism	islam jehovah witnesses article apr princeton edu qpliu princeton edu writes article apr batman bmd trw jbrown batman bmd trw writes god created lucifer perfect nature and gave angels free moral will god prevented lucifer fall taking ability choose moral alternatives worship god worship lucifer moral choices determined will determines will qpliu princeton edu standard opinion opinions delta correlated bobby posts ago you that lucifer had free will believes contrary you talking lucifer can you suggest experiment determine you wrong you claim that you norman
alt.atheism	had share this article apr acme gen kilroy acme gen earthbound misfit writes bena dec monash edu ben aveling writes warning you devout christian this post offend and upset you numerous ctrl deleted hehehe assume familiar christian fish symbol back volvos that perhaps found this morning comes stolen pagans last last chance blisfully ignorant hmm can put comes this sigh hate drawing ascii chars you can work you haven read skinny legs and tom robbins even accurate modern religions appropriated great book followups alt atheism readers slightly authorative this craig harding kilroy acme gen acme bbs jub lbh pnyyvat obmb craig thought derived greek acronym greek isn this jesus christ god iesus christos theos ichthos greek for fish ichthysaurus apologies for dreadful greek perhaps will correct your sig mean norman
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism article apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes reasons that you atheist that you limit god giving god form god not face wait minute thought you that allah presume allah god unknowable and you claiming concrete fact you that god not face doesn bible that god hindparts you suggest decide you you god hindparts face your use quotation marks god not face you interpret this mean you peace bobby mozumder norman
alt.atheism	visit jehovah witnesses article apr batman bmd trw jbrown batman bmd trw writes article dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes you give definition free will presence omniscient will determination words god created conscious beings ability choose moral choices independently god will free will hypothetical conscious beings can ignore influences circumstances genetics environment experiences not determined idea hell makes idea free will dubious hand idea hell not powerful idea parable for you once main character blah blah blah day thug pointed mean gun omc and blasting you hell omc thought this thug and follow instructions that will avoid getting blasted hell hand this thug and not follow instructions that will blasted hell hmm attractive choice obvious follow instructions omc found choice obvious omc had learned getting blasted hell made undesirable omc noticed that thug gun wasn real gun thug threats make omc thug and resumed blah blah blah qpliu princeton edu standard opinion opinions delta correlated
alt.atheism	gospel dating article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes article apr wam umd edu west cville wam umd edu stilgar writes article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes article apr wam umd edu west cville wam umd edu stilgar writes illiad undisputed word god prove wrong dispute ergo counter example you proven wrong dispute your counter example ergo counter counter example you wrong and nanny nanny boo boo tbbbbbbbtttttthhhhh premis stated that undisputed fine illiad word god disputed not dispute that won matter prove wrong brian west this not sig file earth this not sig file for blink sig file eye tomorrow posted west wam umd edu not missed doesn care jurassic park diclaimer this meant this made
alt.atheism	gospel dating article apr wam umd edu west cville wam umd edu stilgar writes fine illiad word god disputed not dispute that won matter prove wrong illiad contains word ergo can not word god you will humbly agree that words god will conceed thing that relates navy men that tatoos that mom love mom makes for virile men bobby mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu april true muslim left world
alt.atheism	americans and evolution article pik fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes article darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes you spend time posting your atheism incidental question god trivial fess matters you great deal two questions important mithras your life today important mithras become funded group fanatics schools system teach your children that mithras true god jon jon cares long works for individual don impose beliefs children add funded group purge science deny children access great wonders and skills and kids born creationists burden begin adult life cruel awakening for finally light provided escape depths this type ignorance
alt.atheism	visit jehovah witnesses jbrown batman bmd trw writes syllogism form this logically valid construction your syllogism form logically invalid construction and your comments don apply appeal mathew mantis wrote excellent post part faq logical argument jim not mathew mantis successful year logic student will that you logically correct poster logically incorrect nothing pretentions
alt.atheism	god morality americans and evolution article apr batman bmd trw jbrown batman bmd trw writes babies diseases etc god create life protein code mutable and can evolve delving into deep discussion creationism evolutionism main problem scenario you outline consistent evidence that familiar not not support earth latest estimates billion years and had life for billion years humans for years fossil evidence inidcates that life changing and evolving and fact disease ridden long people fossils that show signs disease bone disorders heck not fossil evidence glean genetic study shows that disease for long long time human sin brought disease indirectly necessarily exist humans god created original genetic code perfect and flaw and getting sidetracked into theological ramifications original sin main effect called original sin for this discussion remove humanity god protection since choice cut intimate fellowship god addition sin caused come dominion satan assumed dominion earth deletions since humanity longer god protection satan dominion great feat for satan genetically engineer diseases bacterial viral and genetic forces natural selection tend improve survivability species degeneration genetic code offset this evolutionary biologists biology you claim will strongly disagree this evidence that human genetic code started perfect condition adapt envionment collective sense curious you mean degeneration genetic code human dna complex accumulate errors adversely affecting and ability fight disease simpler dna bacteria and viruses tend become efficient causing infection and disease bad combination umm nah pretty good job adapting viruses and bacteria and small percentage microlife harmful humans and that small percentage reasonalby constant size ranks changing for example bubonic plague used nasty disease you agree pops time time even today and doesn damage part that sanitation even people disease symptoms tend severe past this partly people susceptible died long ago and nasty variants overgrazed forgive poor terminology engineer not doctor and died for lack nearby hosts wrong this gather acne hundred years and used nastier killer getting nasty age newborns that suffer genetic viral and bacterial diseases disorders wait minute question humans created perfect and you admit that inbuilt abiliy fight disease that satan making diseases gift humans means fight simpler make diseases lethal survivors can immune systems imperfect presently built into god want clear this you that god planning ahead for time satan charge building immune system that not time design that god made immune systems ahead time knowing that adam and eve sin and descendents fight diseases this mystical supernatural explanation you prepared accept god not responsible for disease even satan had nothing original inception disease evolution random chance produced since humanity forsook god protection another puzzle exactly you mean perfect phrase created perfect and flaw mind perfect system incapable degrading time perfect system that will constant intervention become imperfect not perfect system imho that god writing masterpiece bunch gum wrappers held together elmer glue that original genetic instructions perfect written inferior materials that had carefully tended fall apart god not used materials god incapable creating system that maintain choose not deletions summary newborns innocent god not suffering main point that isn evidence for explanation you give that aware couldn making nitpicks and sincerely ray ingles opinions not university ingles engin umich edu michigan
alt.atheism	god morality long article apr batman bmd trw jbrown batman bmd trw writes article apr leland stanford edu galahad leland stanford edu scott compton writes deletions back your post you fine job your seventh grade life science explain bad diseases caused satan and good things result god want you secret can create amino acid sequence lab and guess sequence curls into helix wow that can happen supernatural force wow takes advanced science degrees and millions dollars state art equipment and thought intelligence create building blocks life foolish people advanced science degrees use state art equipment and spend millions dollars simulate tornadoes tornadoes not require intelligence exist not that equipment needed not state art study products not generate you want that read your post and provide response send copy jim brown bmd trw can read day and posts slip will sincerely ray ingles opinions not university ingles engin umich edu michigan
alt.atheism	anecdote islam date apr gmt jon livesey livesey solntze wpd sgi article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes don understand point this petty sarcasm basic principle islam that born muslim testify that god god and mohammad prophet god that long not explicitly reject islam word considered muslim muslims phenomenon you attempting make into general rule psychology direct odds basic islamic principles you want attack islam you argue that islam explicitly contradicts mozumder incorrect that committing bad acts people temporarily become atheists jon not incorrect defending islam defending islam infidels you can and will dare criticize you atheist argument petty sarcasm can temporary atheists whenever and temporary atheists can that good muslims never explicitly rejected islam temporary atheism temporary islam temporary marriage sticks teflon religion convenient and easy clean you expect bunch people can even agree phases moon
alt.atheism	god morality long this kind argument cries for comment jbrown batman bmd trw wrote article apr leland stanford edu galahad leland stanford edu scott compton writes jim you originally wrote god not create disease responsible for maladies newborns god create life protein code mutable and can evolve delving into deep discussion creationism evolutionism god created original genetic code perfect and flaw you evidence for this code once perfect and degraded since evidence favour this statement shouldn perhaps biggest imperfection code that full coding regions introns called intervene coding regions exons impressive amount evidence suggests that introns ancient origin likely that early exons represented early protein domains number introns decreasing increasing appears that intron loss can occur and species common ancestry quite similar exon intron structure genes hand possibility that introns inserted presents logical difficulties introns removed splicing mechanism this present unused introns inserted intron insertion required precise targeting random insertion not tolerated since sequences for intron removal splicing mrna conserved transposition sequence leaves trace long terminal repeats and target site duplications and not found intron sequences recommend reading textbooks molecular biology and genetics posting theological arguments this watson molecular biology gene darnell lodish baltimore molecular biology cell for starters remember question posed theological context god disease newborns and answer likewise theological perspective valid purely scientific perspective scientific perspective supported evidence theological perspectives fail fulfil this criterion you misread meaning god made genetic code perfect that doesn mean perfect evolved since for worse you cite references that support your assertion your assertion valid scientific perspective you support evidence fact claimed that parasites and diseases perhaps important thought for instance sex evolved defence parasites this view supported computer simulations evolution tierra perhaps thought higher energy rays rays gamma rays and cosmic rays that caused damage fact thermal energy that damage mild and easily fixed enzymatic action atmosphere time god created life recollection biologists not claim that life began billion years ago that half billion years earth created primitive support life remember figure billion years ago for origination life earth estimate replace created formed since invoke creator earth can formed recent estimates age earth range billion years and earliest signs life not true fossils organic stromatolite layers date back billion years this leave billion years for cells evolve can give references this based evolutionary biochemistry attended dominion great feat for satan genetically engineer diseases bacterial viral and genetic forces natural selection tend improve survivability species degeneration genetic code offset this you want this true you evidence for this supposed degeneration can understand scott reaction excuse this fetched that you jesting you pathogens you point mutations you that can come spontaneously response your last statement and you you that and accept fact you cannot that hope you don forget this evidence that suggests can come spontaneously you evidence this conclusion science not healthy sign doubt and disbelieve path walk evidence you and not present conclusions prior this theology not use this method doubt come conclusions human dna complex accumulate errors adversely affecting and ability fight disease simpler dna bacteria and viruses tend become efficient causing infection and disease bad combination newborns that suffer genetic viral and bacterial diseases disorders you supposing purpose not valid move bacteria and viruses not exist disease another manifests general principle evolution replication saves replicators degradiation efficient method for dna survive and replicate efficient methods didn make present and for last time present evidence for your claim that human dna degrading evolutionary processes people claimed that opposite true suppressed selection and bound degrade haven evidence for claim this relevant discussion answering john question genetic diseases and bacterial and viral diseases require babies develop antibodies god fault original question not nothing evil god fault your explanation not work fails miserably you fact that you don that satan not responsible and suppose that powerful evil satan exists inconceivable that responsible for ills that affect mankind don job pun intended problem satan explain diseases inevitable product evolution that another bad inference you oversimplify point that your summary words takes context never that people meant god punished getting diseases that free moral choices attendent consequences mankind chooses reject god people since beginning not expect god protect adverse events entropic universe not expecting this god exists expect leave alone hear you your choices free this interesting philosophical question and answer not clear cut consequences you expect rejecting allah admit not perfect working good library bookstore good starting point this price tea china question provided answer biology and genetics fine subjects and important scientific endeavors explain god created and set life processes don explain creation life subsequent evolution and your proposition that not supported evidence this recommend books invoke prime mover evidence for this universe can come into existence intervention recent cosmological theories hawking suggest people insist this scotty for your fine and sagely advice not highly motivated learn nitty gritty details biology and genetics find fascinating subject for realize that details not change big picture that god created life beginning ability change and adapt environment evidence for your big picture and create that capable adaptation can come into existence supreme reading atkins creation revisited freeman petri petri pihko kem pmp mathematics truth pihatie finou oulu physics rule oulu kempmp game finland phoenix oulu chemistry game
alt.atheism	islam dress code for women article dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes women souls islam people that muslims that women not souls admit never heard such view held muslims era heard christians eras holding this viewpoint not muslims you you not confusing christian history islamic history supposed predominant view turkish caliphate not aware turkish caliphate viewpoint this can you reference found quote due imam ali shias follow men never obey your women whatsoever never give advice matter whatsoever even everyday life freely give advice and will fritter wealth and disobey wishes owner this wealth religion alone left devices lacking pity and virtue carnal desires stake easy enjoy great anxiety virtious libertines corrupt whores age deprived charm untainted vice qualities miscreants complain oppressed oppress make oaths lying pretend refuse men solicitations desire ardently beg god emerge victorious evil deeds and preserve case good quote mas qanawi ref bouhdiba sexuality islam wouldn this quote exemplary islamic viewpoint for prophet cousin and fourth khalif hazret ali this frustrating night woman selim guncer selim guncer jaca negra luna grande csser asu aceitunas alforja aunque sepa los caminos guncer enuxha eas asu edu nunca llegare cordoba fgl
alt.atheism	islamic authority women article apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes that your mistake for children mother raised child thing that relates navy men that tatoos that mom love mom makes for virile men compare that homos raised study and you will point you claim that men stayed home and raised child that false made feminists that seek status men you not recognize fact that men and women natural differences not physically mentally bobby question that your posts aren sort extended elaborate hoax you hard convince entire civilised world that you feeble minded you talent for absurd things sign for you print cut and put top your computer terminal engage brain prior operating keyboard that admit laugh your stuff graham jenkins graham jenkins csiro csiro commonwealth scientific industrial canberra australia research organisation
alt.atheism	jews can hide keith cco article daq fqs austin ibm karner austin ibm karner writes you german poster remark anti semitic years sightseeing and roaming come back kill palastinians and land back that casual antisemitism can plenty ways criticize israeli policy insulting jews jewish history can you jon
alt.atheism	don innocents die death penalty james tims psilink writes maintaining classes and even prison place innocent people higher risk unjust death state executed classes and occasional error higher risk killed killed mistake agree concept that type and murderers massive waste space and resources don agree concept killing wrong you kill will punish you punishment will kill you lacking consistency nothing pretentions
alt.atheism	islam dress code for women article apr ennews eas asu edu guncer enuxha eas asu edu selim guncer writes wouldn this quote exemplary islamic viewpoint for prophet cousin and fourth khalif hazret ali this frustrating night woman that interesting women reactions recorded frustrating night man that considered important jon
alt.atheism	creator article apr batman bmd trw jbrown batman bmd trw writes article apr bradford newnham bradford leonard newnham writes deletions argument incredulity not considered valid form reasoning since medieval times deletions interesting that you mention that argument incredulity not considered valid form reasoning since medieval times quite agree atheists engage times read posts atheists posting state that cannot gracious and loving god can such evil and suffering occur earth simply cannot envision not true this not argument incredulity don you presented argument incredulity not presented this manner presented form and cannot offered convincing explanation not unreasonable for explanation for such phenomena that theism not provide convincing explanation not argument theism favor theisms offer explanations and even adherents purportedly theism give explanations god complex motivations and reasons for action action simply fix evil whenever and occurs even occurs and this argument incredulity ranks high reasons atheists general reject god and christian god not experience experience common reason lack evidence theism favor you mileage vary this universal bane human reasoning and rationality wit that easier logical fallacy inept reasoning part opponents oneself heck snide this once fairly easy attack arguments that not made strawmen man wisdom put log your eye you remove splinter your neighbor eye sage advice sincerely raymond ingles ingles engin umich edu apple hours doctors kliban
alt.atheism	political atheists keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes mathew mathew mantis writes perhaps shouldn imprision people watch closely cost similar implanted sort electronic device wait commit crime not implant such devices potential criminals communists and atheists don follow your reasoning you proposing punish people commit crime justification you for this mathew proposing public defence mechanism not treating electronic device impropriety wearer that step you propose permanent bugging potential criminals this not surface sound bad thing defines potential criminal government day decides that member opposition party makes you potential criminal openly defying government becomes lethal practice this not conducive free society mathew that implanting electronic surveillance devices people impropriety that person type crime chance recidivism basically you criminal justice system punishment for offender and possibly deterrant future offenders mathew sees means rehabilitation for offender cynical you jeff
alt.atheism	satanic article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes nanci ann miller writes corrupted and theory pretty weak comparison current hebrew text versions and translations shows that text fact changed space two millennia this shouldn that suprising people text this manner likely makes pains make good copies king james mate wingate peace god peace strife closed sod mangoe umd edu brothers pray for thing tove mangoe marv lous peace god john burke jdb summa tamu edu
alt.atheism	islamic marriage date tue apr gmt karner karner austin ibm article apr cadence mas cadence masud khan writes article qav austin ibm karner austin ibm karner writes you want name names official records pseudo marriages performed for convenience happens typically that woman willing move lover scruples legal contracts speak man utilizing loophole entering into temporary religious marriage contract order sex complains cares perhaps you alert your imam that this practice widespread you takes muslim men witness penetration decide practice exists you astound level ignorance you display muslims not allowed enter temporary marriages that evidence for outlawed practise your facts straight buddy give references for you lying not widespread you fantasise fact contrary your fantasies not practised muslims you miss post this topic quote indonesian handbook and fred rice comments temporary marriages will glad repost will you accept that practice muslims will you continue claim that lying and that not practised muslims don karner that lying since you nothing this practice you can contribute discussion accuse lying perhaps your ignorance showing learn islam learn muslims open your eyes you will things atheists
alt.atheism	don innocents die death penalty article chrisb baarnie chrisb tafe edu chris bell writes killing wrong you kill will punish you punishment will kill you lacking consistency not holding people will wrong you hold people will will punish you punishment will hold you your will punishment isn private person another private person for apparent reason lead punishment fines suppose jim lippard lippard ccit arizona edu dept philosophy lippard arizvms bitnet university arizona tucson
alt.atheism	visit jehovah witnesses article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes article suopanki apr stekt oulu suopanki stekt oulu heikki suopanki writes god eternal jesus god jesus eternal this works logically and mathematically god set things eternal jesus subset god jesus belongs set things eternal premise and conclusion not properly translated identity statements since statements predication identity translated predicate letter designate god and designate jesus and predicate letter for property eternal premise and conclusion second premise appears identity case can properly symbolized your remark that jesus subset god suggests that strict identity not desired premise means that members making set god property eternal conclusion follows jim lippard lippard ccit arizona edu dept philosophy lippard arizvms bitnet university arizona tucson
alt.atheism	visit jehovah witnesses article chrisb baarnie chrisb tafe edu chris bell writes jbrown batman bmd trw writes syllogism form this logically valid construction your syllogism form logically invalid construction and your comments don apply identity syllogisms valid predicate second syllogism invalid syllogism you pointed valid whether predicate designates individual jim lippard lippard ccit arizona edu dept philosophy lippard arizvms bitnet university arizona tucson
alt.atheism	soc motss princeton axes matching funds for boy scouts student writes roger colin shouse writes radical gay dogma claims not claim claim knowing doesn twenty instances this kind muddleheaded fourth reich sophistique shit postings fact not instances counted reproduce virus you words question this response weasels shouse and stan krieger possibilities study dispassionately and figure work remember you learned combat clones into office contribute your insights your favorite abnormal psych ward learn overcome your repugnance for serial murder this posting totally uncalled for rec scouting point raised and answered roger and stated support bsa position issue specifically that homosexual behavior constitutes violation scout oath specifically promise live morally straight nothing discuss cloud issue comparisons blacks minorities meaningless comparing apples oranges people can control race can control behavior possibly discuss rec scouting this issue including bsa denying live and worship don doesn mean that bsa big bad wolf for adhering recognized positive religious and moral standards society established and continue based stan krieger opinions advice suggestions even unix system laboratories related employment summit smk usl
alt.atheism	satanic article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes pnanci ann miller writes favorite reply you literal minded complaint that bible inspired god and that important make damn translators and scribes and people interpreting and copying getting literally not put merit that corrupted and and man even originally inspired god pthe corrupted and theory pretty weak comparison pcurrent hebrew text versions and translations shows that text phas fact changed space two millennia this pshouldn that suprising people text this manner pare likely makes pains make good copies corrupted time good that bible constructed years jesus death text merchants owe this and owe that can literal word not intended for such nonsense authors bible not plagerize asians for contents that can interperated make sense
alt.atheism	americans and evolution atheism incidental and question god trivial matters great deal idiots force belief enforce creation myths taught scientific fact school can morals morals god successful presidential candidate that atheist shouldn considered citizen and couldn patriotic this nation god fundies party that provide president united states america that can force beliefs rest country cetera that subscribe alt atheism and middle this people aren mind readers pop alt atheism don concoct straw man reason don share belief you accept this this isn dig fundamentalist christians told alt atheism that reject allah proud embrace islam and that reject krishna eyes closed religious nuts post alt atheism kind militant christian can accept that don share beliefs this kind stuff talk religion misc belongs atheism isn belief absence belief gods you problem this bill pfirst that atheism fact belief beilief pbecause belief you hold ador and faith atheist gods this cannot proven you excepting this pfaith alone that belief secondly you complain pfundamental christians force beliefs you you don pmention atheists such madamme murry hare founder pof atheists association austin texas and robert sherman chicago area force beliefs rid god society banning religious paintings parks chistmas forcing cities change town seals mention god sherman slogan god trust american currency you talk creation myths fact myths and tha phave concrete evidece this you pdon and that enforces point that your atheism belief christianity this not show isn pmark covalt real problem argument christianity that ignore origin that asiatic origin christians become good ego centric buddhists supposed listen opinion speak not for place employment christ rated and will atf follow koresh current christ ascention heaven
alt.atheism	alt atheism faq introduction atheism addition faq atheist hospitals recall correctly johns hopkins built provide medical services backing religious group making hospital dedicated glory weak atheism check this brian evans bad mood bad mood bad mood bevans carina unm edu haven had sex virgin mary
alt.atheism	theists posting article aic nrl navy mil khan itd itd nrl navy mil umar khan writes stuff deleted concordance for faq translation considered authoritative orthodox commentary for faq faq for militant atheists and another for moderate atheists you read faq you resolve differences interpretation hmmmmmmmmmmmm can put question followers religion you moslems resolve differences opinion don that interpretation quran read soc culture newsgroups you will zillions interpretations naren naren tekig pen tek standard disclaimers apply
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes horrible deaths resulted atheism list killings name religion iran iraq war civil war sudan riots india pakistan massacares bangladesh inquistions america million crusades that people can add lot list bobby standard excuses will not accepted naren standard disclaimers apply
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism nanci ann miller andrew cmu edu writes snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes horrible deaths resulted atheism quite horrible deaths result atheists and theists perhaps since bit weak history somone give list wars caused led theists this thread arguing validity religious viewpoint utilitarian principle atheism religion wrong death underlying moral that death wrong this arbitrary measure validity epistemology richard harlequin internet richard harlequin internet rptb cambridge phoenix janet zen buddhist
alt.atheism	radical agnostic not reply zazen austin ibm welbon means that can possibly prove doubt that god not exist means lacking this ability absolute proof atheist becomes act faith and and this cannot accept accept nothing blind faith invisible pink flying unicorns harbor beliefs good evidence for god existing not folks call this agnosticism not suffer blind faith don worry happy for atheists lack belief gods secondary epistemological consideration accept reliable knowing valid logical arguments for existence gods empirical evidence that exist philosophers and theologians agree that idea god that accepted faith faith belief sound logical basis empirical evidence reliable knowing nothing people accept absence possibility proof even agree elses word faith mean that found this person reliable past judge likely reliable source find faith reliable logic and empirical evidence assume will provide reliable knowledge gods difference atheist and theist fundamentally whether not faith held reliable knowing agnostic posters whether faith gods gods theist believes that faith acceptable basis for belief gods even rejects faith reliable times for example work scientist atheist believes that logic and empirical evidence lead reliable knowledge agnosticism defensible position theism atheism sceptic regards knowledge evidence gods santa claus easter bunny point that atheist doesn require absolute knowledge lack gods don that such thing absolute knowledge atheism and simplest theory fit lack facts and held contrary evidence found david nye nyeda cnsvax uwec edu midelfort clinic eau claire this patently absurd wishes become philosopher learn not frightened absurdities bertrand russell
alt.atheism	keith ignorant mam mouse cmhnet org mike mcangus writes wouldn start wait religious organizations longer tax exempt beef you lobby group you asked answered encompasses tax exempt status religious organizations wouldn that wouldn that religions longer tax exempt wrong lobbying attempting influence politics keith
alt.atheism	keith schneider stealth poster mam mouse cmhnet org mike mcangus writes understand you order talk knowledgeably religion atheists immersed religion that rare individual left you don understand that don people can discuss subjective merits religion objectively this obvious people that religion this almost isn true you threatened motto people that use motto tool tool guns and axes tools used for murder that don motto misuse warrants removal not this case keith
alt.atheism	keith schneider stealth poster cmtan iss nus tan chade meng dan writes somewhat agree comes theist religion matter that religion drug once use difficult that order experience religion necessarily blind faith and once blind faith diffcult for you reason back atheism unreasonable people religion order judge asking people dying find death can judge death dead judge religion experienced people that religion bad account and that etc don totally agree this cannot religious folk act had not exposed religion people helped ways basically can not judge whether religion route for individual even for general population can that not for personally you can choose not use religion hard find benefits you state keith
alt.atheism	political atheists mmwang adobe michael wang writes for rigorous definition spending rest lives arguing christian believes don argue this you that motto points that this country proud freedom religion and that this that distinguishes countries your opinion not shared people gather perhaps not that seeking make government recognize christianity dominant religion this country not infringing rights not share beliefs people not make government recognize christianity dominant religion this country motto infringes rights not share beliefs and that government recognize that christianity dominant religion this country mean don you realize recognize this this isn that supposed teachings christianity that people personally don motto major concern you agree discussing since people don associate christmas jesus anymore don problem can you prove your assertion that people don associate christmas jesus anymore hear quite bit christmas and jesus wouldn this figure prominent holiday associated high degree you that association jesus personal level and that thinks never talks that can you prove that people associate christmas importantly jesus point that people associate christmas jesus doesn matter people majority not numbers matter takes majority majority power discriminate doesn keith
alt.atheism	political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes probability that automobile system will kill innocent accident asymptotically close court system doesn automobile system can opt this isn true people forced use automobile system don use choice ways getting secondly make automobile system safe recognize danger innocent current example not make court system safer fairly easily replacing fatal punishments fatal punishments that court system refined hundreds years britain and countries make fair can made removing death penalty life imprisonment sounds fatal punishment keith
alt.atheism	political atheists dace shrike und roy dace writes keith allan schneider keith cco caltech edu wrote soldiers dependent religion for number purposes and doubt dependent cocaine don military paying for coca fields religion benefits combat situation benefits cocaine keith
alt.atheism	pompous ass mvs psuvm psu edu writes people fanatics propogandized this that this conflict atheists and religious impression that outlaw religion contintue remove things religious reference that not people asked perhaps you you fundamentalists this oppressed not allowed oppress you not shown you this idea that people atheism religion winner can your groundless prediction that this will happen you haven into account propoganda remember you asked germans wwii jews shoudl slaughtered answer propoganda machine rolled tolerate you takes small group fanatics whip general frenzy propoganda machines gear number issues including abortion and gays things that happened passed amendment intense scrutiny and failed outlaw abortion prime goal that issue yep sooo effective haven managed outlaw abortion due objectivity courts managed create quite problems for people that wanted abortion create similar problems for and worse can stop abortions blocking clinics etc imagine stop atheism margin error large you talk two people your that your opinion branched and informal survey half dozen and you questions unbiased keith you claim that questions biased minute posted answers agreed asked removal motto christian portion expressed regret loss pointed that motto will not works expressed desire rape murder pillage etc you basically claimed you convince individually you convince room nation for atheist portion expressed disgust motto noted harassed christians used motto justified and glad never supported that minor problem that can easily contrasted happen likely christians designed motto motto jesus you that refers christians christians wrote christians that religion and wrong include religions realm correct doubt that religions meant included not clear religious convictions francis scott key motto can attributed clear that believed god and surely christians that you don that you that christians actively despise religions that met haven and don christian that queried thinks means and not people faiths christianity popular suppose you people asked hindu moselem and jews and that applicable can that people that pretty accurate representations faiths good idea assume that dissenting views issue you assuming that views and nothing leads this conclusion evidence contrary doubt that dissenting opinions you claim provide evidence for your assertion and don access congressional records can comparing christians nazis interesting sense that can convinced change beliefs motto money doesn cost you extra you abolished motto pay dies and plates redone people paid changed motto you show that good reason change doubt that use plates for year printing this make easy remove motto simply make year plates your claim evidently that will pay extra provide evidence for this assertion you that redesign plates each year your argument conveniently deleted that motto costs lot money this not correct read didn mention jesus issue distinction religion and not religious and not religious motto refers god religious motto question whether not christian you doubt this provide evidence for this assertion that religion this country and religion ussr that quotes and included atheists general don that quotes lost mentioned jesus advocated religion religion specific religion not mentioned you missed this point that motto didn that motto doesn imply your beliefs doesn that trusts form god that nation this obvious not include this doubt your claim that motto refers christians based facts that christianity religions wrong and that motto written christians doubt your claim you that christians that religions outlawed wrong that silly flat earthers wrong don advocate banishment based this idea doubt that additional expense even incurred removing motto provide evidence for your claim that that such cost insignificant mentioned slight cost you that motto costing lot money currency disregarding digression motto used for harassment and purpose found for not removed mottos general don purposes don removed benefit outweighed consequences and you vote opinions you that main reason motto required law bother atheists you that this majority congress time had mind you show opinion people put that concerned you concerned opinion entire congress not that complete majority shared purpose confronting godless communism this motto not majority that put general public not anti atheist intent people daresay people remember time key wrote anthem remember debate surrounding motto remember that people intended message atheists don you include this your survey that you conducting you claim that scientists claims doubt this provide evidence for your assertion scientists probability that einstein relativity worthy mean einstein good chance that time for courts method scientists use can applied not agree court default good record you not agree time you that decisions good evidence favor point you you didn agree court allowed congress attempt make amendment prohibiting flag burning you don realize that this external realm court power can confident that you court powers mean you don court works can you participate discussion court judge can speak congress and you ignore abortion gag rule you make your claims abortion that inappropriate for supreme court justice testify congress consideration constitutional amendment and order for court rule case presented mushrooms flowers trees buildings signs analogy that find offensive present doesn mean that rights violated talking put people keith not mushroom caused that mushroom exist you finding things offensive mushroom farm mushrooms can planted and don mushrooms pizza this not case motto and you ignoring harassment result motto and you ignoring that line people forced put motto forced put motto you mean keith
alt.atheism	visit jehovah witnesses suopanki stekt oulu writes apr mst jbrown batman bmd trw god eternal jesus god jesus eternal this works logically and mathematically god set things eternal jesus subset god jesus belongs set things eternal isn logical mercedes car that girl mercedes that girl car your phrasing ambiguous writing carefully two possibilities things called mercedes cars that girl called mercedes that girl car that valid piece logical deduction not sound statement false similarly hold that jim example valid not sound another interpretation you wrote exists car called mercedes that girl called mercedes that girl car isn valid mathew
alt.atheism	political atheists keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes mathew mathew mantis writes perhaps shouldn imprision people watch closely cost similar implanted sort electronic device wait commit crime not implant such devices potential criminals communists and atheists don follow your reasoning you proposing punish people commit crime justification you for this irony keith mathew
alt.atheism	political atheists keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes mathew mathew mantis writes for rape surely burden guilt solely rapist not you thrown into cage tiger and mauled you blame tiger tigers not sentient pushed into pool dolphins and attacked inclined blame dolphins person pushing dolphins not aggressive and developed brains and capacity for abstract thought matter fact tigers rarely attack humans human provokes cage small that count provocation mathew
alt.atheism	political atheists kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes almost that zyklon and painless method death not insert soem form and ethnic and minority groups killed mutilated and exterminated history guess not unusual you agree that holocost allowed constitution punishment doubt recieved considered fair trial standards don happened japanese citizens world war you prepared round people and stick concentration camp trial short step gassing trial that nazis originally intended imprison jews final solution dreamt partly couldn afford run camps devastation caused goering total war weren gassed generally died malnutrition disease mathew
alt.atheism	atheist dbstu benedikt rosenau writes article mantis tony lezard tony mantis writes deletion opinion that strong atheist position requires belief for comfortable strong atheists care comment humans come idea spiritual parent artifacts human thought evidence for that quite overwhelming and information content conceived vanishing words gods make sense and explain phenomenon religion gods concept useless and don introduce assumptions order show that leap faith required for your mileage vary fully agree that don gods exist gods exist mandtbacka finabo abo mats andtbacka pointed hinges you word mean this bound definitions strong and weak atheism faq atheism characterized absence belief existence god atheists and that god not exist referred weak atheist position and strong atheism important note difference two positions weak atheism simple scepticism disbelief existence god strong atheism positive belief that god not exist not fall into trap assuming that atheists strong atheists mathew introduction atheism version last modified apr faq clarified pin this notion belief can tony lezard tony mantis tony mantis uknet things tony mantis nsfnet relay last resort arl phx cam pgp public key request
alt.atheism	political atheists mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes you mean circular not recursive that semantics recursiveness problems horribly inefficient assembly programmer tail recursive functions scheme efficient iterative loops doesn program assembler will heard optimizing compilers mathew
alt.atheism	anecdote islam edu jaeger buphy edu writes deletia don understand point this petty sarcasm basic principle islam that born muslim testify that god god and mohammad prophet god that long not explicitly reject islam word considered muslim muslims phenomenon you attempting make into general rule psychology direct odds basic islamic principles you want attack islam you argue that islam explicitly contradicts deletions mentioned chopping hands punishment for theft saudi arabia assuming this wouldn and assuming people fitting your requirement for muslim find highly likely you convince bobby mozumder that muslims chop people hands come back you succeeded disclaimer great young and insane
alt.atheism	fundamental contradiction visit jws jbrown batman bmd trw writes will determination words god created conscious beings ability choose moral choices independently god will free will not representative paragraph thought hop strikes contradicting fable lucifer fall recall speculation based biblical text rcism showing that benedikt pointed lucifer had perfect nature had free will choose evil that choice come genesis that eve offered opportunity sin tempter assume satan lucifer discover invent create call action you will that god had not origin bible mention lucifer free will make big fuss mankind free will strikes fact rationalisation and fact salvation not that christians identically mind salvation and free will tightly coupled theology roman catholic theologian explain lucifer fall lucifer had perfect nature man fall execute act that contradicted nature and effect evil exist for time lucio lucio proxima alt tab stops
alt.atheism	atheist tony lezard tony mantis writes opinion that strong atheist position requires belief for comfortable strong atheists care comment can strong atheists outnumbered alt atheism weak atheists cost repudiating faq made strong weak atheism issue context alt atheism continually attacked basis that strong atheists existence god separation valid cover arse that infinitely grey area weak and strong strong and unattainable mathematical atheism logically can support weak atheist position effect strong atheist and mathematical justify strong atheist position show that evidence presented favour gods scrutiny faulty read faq correctly argument for existence god generic represented mainstream theologians found unassailable this adequate evidence that real god undefinable definition found watertight turn accept sufficient base disbelief each and conceivable god fuzzy edges opinions perhaps change thread subject lucio lucio proxima alt tab stops
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie anecdote islam jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes rushdie case legitimate this issue rushdie actions had effects islamic countries that not simple that didn commit crime islamic country simple person committed crime country borders time committed doesn matter physical manifestation for instance hack into nasa ames research lab and delete files committed crime united kingdom authorities prosecute law law automatic this net authorities put pressure sites holland holland had anti cracking legislation and viewed hacker haven system administrators similarly company called red hot television broadcasting pornographic material can received britain broadcasting britain committing crime not broadcasting denmark british government powerless spite apparent law breaking not lawyer wrong confusingly countries not mathew
alt.atheism	anecdote islam article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes cases prostitution man and prostitute punished public quite severely deletion gregg you cannot lenient and punishes severely public exceptions implied almost matters that depends statistics and punished public power for example nothing islamic men rape women times blowing rapist head public call that leniency wouldn you you that example not lenient end argument and chopping hands heads people not lenient appears that you internalized claims legal system checking suit description and wasn argument that takes men rape woman islamic law don approve prostitute and customer words punishing violation rights and punish severely public another pointer hysteria connected sexuality religions you even don can you give answers that you evidence for your opposite claims this case don accept complex ridden views oriental goatherd forget that west historically sexual neurosis oriental goatherd intellectual fact memory serves and will connection primitive machism orient and islam people agree sex fine and assume that god clue detrimental effects supressing huh heard aids you that god evil disease exist bla bla you miss point aids spread sex necessarily spread sex futher point important point urge for sex stronger fear aids even stronger religious attempts channel forbid sex consequences suppressing sex worse consequences aids note that idea that end aids sex not controlled completely counterfactual and since you brought point your god evil not benedikt
alt.atheism	biblical rape article apr watson ibm strom watson ibm rob strom writes article dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes didn time read rest posting had respond this absolutely not messianic jew another mistake read alt messianic carefully benedikt
alt.atheism	soc motss princeton axes matching funds for boy scouts article apr midway uchicago edu shou midway uchicago edu writes article dhinn dsi dsinc perry dsinc jim perry writes bigots never concede that bigotry irrational people determine that examining arguments expected you set wonderful world bigot whomever you this comfortable for you imagine never entertain argument your belief system simply accuse person making bigot this thread vituperation slopped venom into alt atheism spend time entertaining arguments belief system resorting accusing bigotry somewhat ironic that exposure bigotry happens this instance originated rec scouting since understood scouting teach tolerance and diversity understand bigotry irrational prejudice people happen race religion ethnic background sex inconsequential characteristics evidence that sexual orientation and lack belief gods exactly such inconsequential characteristics pending evidence conclude that show prejudice such people bigots and organizations that exclude such people discriminatory jim perry perry dsinc decision support inc matthews opinions for nominal fee can
alt.atheism	americans and evolution article tinn senator bedfellow mit edu bobs thnext mit edu robert singleton writes deletion will argue that your statement that gods exist rest faith that you making positive statement that gods exist strong atheism don and don and don not weak atheism once not god that god not exist maintain position even reading faqs that strong atheism requires faith used view you that driving car requires faith that car drives for conclusion and faith premises and argument used language problem regards faith and existence christian maintain that god not exist exist means space and time god not god kierkegaard once that god not exist eternal this feel pointless debate called existence god and that not that god source and ground you that god not exist accept this statement mean two things follows will use phrase existence god usual sense and this sense that you clarification you mean existence god that word game term god used you use definition your thing commonly accepted you define god and that not exist existence not exist interestingly that existence exists indubitable statements god existence waste time existence used and replace god you implying case your definition and your argument incomplete making fallacy deletion can never prove that god not exist you that you god not exist and that this opinion based observation will observtions you refering observations pro con that valid establishing positive belief deletion that follow aren observations based assumption that exists and wouldn you level definition that assumption god meaningful not reject that concept your evidence for that god meaningful level benedikt
alt.atheism	morality constant biblical rape this frayed thread turned into patented alt atheism ping pong game and don strong disagreement stick thing don quite follow argument that contradiction arguing that bible enlightened for times closer morally good based standards and past experience hand hope this summarizes this argument adequately and hand article apr watson ibm strom watson ibm rob strom writes article phpe inn dsi dsinc perry dsinc jim perry writes disclaimer speaking jewish perspective bible means call testament and interpretation not necessarily raw text court cases commentaries and traditions passed jewish communities this crux you judge bible long line traditions and interpretations coming current day merits cultural artifact will correspond closely contemporary values that bible used today shouldn that judge people use scissors cut paper shouldn consumer reports test scissors for paper cutting ability even scissors designed originally cut cloth that possibly good judge use bible teaching jewish morality today fair claim that this highly interpreted version enlightened for times attempt extend analogy this that original scissor makers unusually advanced paper cutting for times even cut cloth and had never even heard paper not arguing that bible disgusting history depicted modern standards history full similar abuses and don biblical accounts worse contemporaries possibly ours hand don reason history described bible shows abuse contemporaries ours that complex and benign moral traditions evolved based mythic interpretations that history interesting don fair that long tradition interpretation and use attack condemnation original history jim perry perry dsinc decision support inc matthews opinions for nominal fee can
alt.atheism	political atheists mathew mathew mantis writes for rape surely burden guilt solely rapist you force live rapist will case part responsibility can accept that rapist hypnotized view solely responsible for actions not necessarily rapist such for instance you intentionally stick your finger into loaded mousetrap and snapped fault keith
alt.atheism	islamic authority women article apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes thing that relates navy men that tatoos that mom love mom makes for virile men compare that homos raised study and you will point bobby you priceless you that policy bobby posts give damn flick thread high speed searching for posts bobby generated pile followups and extract hilarious quote inevitably present for sig purposes works for for guy arrived and asked whether bobby for real you betcha alt atheism and rest assured that gets worse pearls wisdom bobby reproduce below keith keeping big file such stuff allah infinite wisdom universe created nothing and allah exists bobby mozumder proving existence allah wait you that humans rarely reasonable doesn that contradict atheism explained logic and reason this contradiction atheism that proves false bobby mozumder proving existence allah believer contradictory quran for allah not exist bobby mozumder proving existence allah and thing that relates navy men that tatoos that mom love mom makes for virile men compare that homos raised study and you will point bobby mozumder islamically rigorous alt atheism mmmmm quality and quantity voice islam pbuh cheers simon simon clippingdale simon dcs warwick department computer science tel university warwick fax coventry
alt.atheism	soc motss princeton axes matching funds for boy scouts article apr cbnewsl att stank cbnewsl att stan krieger writes point raised and answered roger and stated support bsa position issue specifically that homosexual behavior constitutes violation scout oath specifically promise live morally straight define morally straight and don even that straight used implies hetersexual behavior straight slang word opposite gay this alot family values talking misteriously thing that relates navy men that tatoos that mom love mom makes for virile men bobby mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu april true muslim left world
alt.atheism	soc motss princeton axes matching funds for boy scouts article apr cbnewsl att stank cbnewsl att stan krieger writes roger and stated support bsa position issue specifically that homosexual behavior constitutes violation scout oath specifically promise live morally straight nothing discuss apparently not response claim that terrifies gay people not indoctrinate children lifestyle words that effect roger calm carefully written detailed letter explaining simply bsa policy terrify not use inflammatory language and left extremely open for answer not received answer can conclude that roger considers position indefensible simply not worth defending cloud issue comparisons blacks minorities meaningless comparing apples oranges people can control race can control behavior fact that exactly point people can control behavior that fact for blanket ban homosexuals possibly discuss rec scouting this issue you tim pierce usted tele madre twpierce unix amherst edu del asesino que graciosa bitnet twpierce amherst pedro almodovar
alt.atheism	biblical rape article apr watson ibm strom watson ibm rob strom writes deletion thread biblical rape initiated david hunt posting article feu xsf kpc andrew cmu edu david hunt bluelobster cmu edu writes pretty biblical rules for allowable rape prisoners codes that etc knowledgable soul references asked narrow question and gave narrow answer that wrong apology deletion david hunt post didn mention god response you bring idea bible god jews don this literal sense fun met minority and god refers action god god effects rob not intimate jewish theology understand that you messianic jew correct wrong appears that views messianic jews metaphysics that majority jews jewish theology quite distinct christianic god views heard that for jews attribute evil god for christians bible effect interaction god man deletion thought agreed that jews disagree set core beliefs that agree that commandments accessible and written language time and another that legal system update context metaphysics even process adapting commandments not transcendent justification process lie metaphysic specualtion you break shackles metaphysics your system deletion you explain this respect original commandments discussed that commandment that you feel raping woman prisoner you wait and marry this commandment invalidates book that commands commit genocide reprehensible deeds context repulsive and foul play imo invoke relatively enlightened passages example for content book big deletion point that that connection theology you use and interpretation bible loosely interpretation bible based long tradition jewish scholars interpreting bible theology doesn enter into jewish atheists interpret laws charity essentially not interpretation laws interpretation bible example that sodom and gomorrha mean argue god idea that metaphorically and you argue god that means that alone theo logic question proof theology used you pose another metaphysical riddle you you wrote this fine major spirit absolute power absolute knowledge and appears limited means will communicate form spiritual big friend you admit that god this context somewhat unusual assumption that cannot created universe and that passages bible referring that omnipotence crap that meant riddle important question light for instance passage witrh sodom and gomorrha means connection text fact that exists and your interpretation purely arbitrary question carry burden biblical texts simply write books that convey message you answer that can becuase peculiar biblical information lost that holds true book and question remains bible special place can replaced bargain dangerous content bible message that included deletion you danger metaphers used bible danger danger frozen system laws laws worse systems not not system deletion read two stories importance helping poor and god spirit and god body important helping poor resolving contradiction corporeal nature god read two stories bible that god commands people kill children for idolaters and another god kills children directly important resolve message that children killed god and argument you fallacy not important context you find god corporeal not can crucial questions religious believers resolve contradictions that choose possibilities arbitrary and advantage attribute decision god cannot resolve questions statement good good depends question benedikt
alt.atheism	atheist article epvk mantis tony lezard tony mantis writes deletion words gods make sense and explain phenomenon religion gods concept useless and don introduce assumptions order show that fully agree that don gods exist gods exist mandtbacka finabo abo mats andtbacka pointed hinges you word mean for gods exist and don gods exist words that statements gods interfere this world false meaningless ontology can fairly conclude that exist meaningless not exist pragmatic definition truth exists meaningless makes exist even logically false problem such statements that can disprove subjective god definition and cases subjective god even make sense trouble god definitions that include form objective existence consequence gods affecting believers derive interfere life deletion faq clarified pin this notion belief can honestly don problem benedikt
alt.atheism	sex allowed marriage rationality islamic marriage mar ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes case that wrong world will end people start believing islam and that horrors mankind caused lack belief atheism for last time bobby lack belief your god not imply atheism moslems aren moral not mean don god named allah allah not things your allah moslem believes that god exists theist not true follower islam murder victims year caused atheism poverty massive hate crimes such low respect for human body distrust people wrong caused atheism peace jerk bobby mozumder sami aario can you measure atom you can explode tut sunlight comprised atoms your stupid minds stupid stupid eros plan outer space disclaimer don agree eros
alt.atheism	motto mania mathew writes prefer mark jason dominus suggestion that motto changed mind your fucking business this era aids isn fucking interest semi propose motto recently glorious state maryland state state song refers abraham lincoln tyrant people wound state motto inherited calverts fatti maschii parole femine you read italian manly deeds womanly words that effect state not long ago had women representatives this represents problem official solution change translation means strong deeds gentle words personal suggestion changing walk softly and carry big stick wingate peace god peace strife closed sod mangoe umd edu brothers pray for thing tove mangoe marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	visit jehovah witnesses good grief amount energy spent lousy syllogism volumes for true position reason this group wingate peace god peace strife closed sod mangoe umd edu brothers pray for thing tove mangoe marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	benediktine metaphysics benedikt rosenau writes great authority contradictory cannot exist contradictory property language correct this things defined contradictory language not exist will object definitions reality you amend things described contradictory language not exist come plainly false failures description failures description not objectivist remember wingate peace god peace strife closed sod mangoe umd edu brothers pray for thing tove mangoe marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	gospel dating you require amount evidence that pair bluejeans and superhuman powers use argument that use nature and claim that you cannot superhuman powers you human superhuman powers human and since you human powers you not human you cannot superhuman powers sound good you evidence question depends context this group since you posting american college site willing that you pair blue jeans and assuming coherency your position will that you not superhuman powers arguments evidence respects you existence sic jesus assume that you mean man special powers etc yep will agree that that man called jesus fact live fact willing agree that man named jesus reason that wasn man good claims extradinary virgin birth virgin sense not sexual intercourse resurection son god etc claims require extra evidence extra evidence don start evidence cannot evidence for cynics this group accept for second foundation religion claims risen jesus back day period believer and discounted this group since ancients choose dismiss thing metaphysical relationship even agree argued length means don evidence interpret extraordinary claims claim statement that speaker will not accept evidence matter wingate peace god peace strife closed sod mangoe umd edu brothers pray for thing tove mangoe marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	remarkable admission jon livesey writes not attempt distinguish flavours christian loudly claiming true christian obvious that you don attempt you aware that don loudly claim true christian avoid phrase not christian ownership issues phrase nicene christianity attempt identify vast majority christianity roughly similar viewpoints core theological issues jws not fall this group and fact espouse position arianism rejected nicene churches and virtually wingate peace god peace strife closed sod mangoe umd edu brothers pray for thing tove mangoe marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	gospel dating benedikt rosenau writes argument follows oid quotes john not almost codified matthew luke considered similar point knowledge such and not source assuming you presenting accurately don this argument leads firm conclusion material john not exactly referred for granted similarity matt luke material almost relationship two john getting straight jesus mouth talking date texts not age authors usual explanation for time order mark matthew and luke not respective ages matthew read text mark and luke that matthew and that mark version usual theory heard matthew and luke independently relying mark and that luke relied matthew wouldn grating inconsistencies geneologies for thing assumed that john knew content luke text evidence for that not overwhelming admittedly this part that that you point reference grateful haven info hand late early and possibly shed doubt order putting john rest closes gap supposed writing and existing copy quit bit original copies can written and survival becomes probable and don step removed source that bad luke and mark and matthew learned stories directly diciples cannot sort big transformation jesus gospel that people posit news reports generally gets information this and john diciple nothing that john disciple not generally accepted style and language together theology used counterargument not impressed theology argument pointing this and pointed earlier cannot make arguments peter reason not accept authentic letter step and generation removed bad even times compare that reports similar events century almost illiterate societies analogy reporters talking participants not bad words not original mark and arguments based mark pretty weak statement divinity not that section and case agreed that important epistles predate mark wingate peace god peace strife closed sod mangoe umd edu brothers pray for thing tove mangoe marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	yeah benedikt rosenau writes and that revelation thing charley you talking this intellectual engagement revelation risk takes people that concept metaphysical and religious knowledge contradictive not objectivist not impressed problems conceptualization problem this case bad that explain quantum mechanics and relativity terms ordinary experience can rough understanding language perspective ordinary phenomena inconsistent and perspective described inexact charitable analogous situation supposedly obtains metaphysics problem that descriptive language not and case holds reliable information can you show you establish that this word reliable essentially meaningless context you can show reliability can determined wingate peace god peace strife closed sod mangoe umd edu brothers pray for thing tove mangoe marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	radical agnostic not article apr cnsvax uwec edu nyeda cnsvax uwec edu david nye wrote reply zazen austin ibm welbon means that can possibly prove doubt that god not exist means lacking this ability absolute proof atheist becomes act faith and and this cannot accept accept nothing blind faith invisible pink flying unicorns harbor beliefs good evidence for god existing not folks call this agnosticism not suffer blind faith don worry happy for atheists lack belief gods secondary epistemological consideration accept reliable knowing valid logical arguments for existence gods empirical evidence that exist philosophers and theologians agree that idea god that accepted faith faith belief sound logical basis empirical evidence reliable knowing you expand your definition knowing bit monolithic not that you intend that don for example distinguish knowing equals apples apples equals apples french knowing that jerry lewis auteur and means socrates this patently absurd wishes become philosopher learn not frightened absurdities bertrand russell this epigraph perhaps issue learning absurdities merit exploration gene
alt.atheism	political atheists bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes personal objection that find capital punishment cruel and unusual punishment circumstances can painless isn cruel and occurred frequently since dawn time unusual don issue numbers single innocent life innocents die due you singled accidental false execution issue keith
alt.atheism	yeah article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes for years periodically asked charley wingate explain this mythical alternative rationality propounds enthusiastically pops months reluctance explain that not hot times that alternative that you caught and alternative point rationality isn alternative problems metaphysical and religious knowledge unsolvable humans cannot solve alternative you basis whatsoever for your claim usual line you call prejudgment atheism and dispute that reason you admit that you alternative basis for claim that reason that reason inapplicable religious knowledge possibly that reason conflicts religious knowledge this sounds can provide rational defense for belief prefer discard rationality accept that false hope makes you happy your repeated and unfounded assertions this effect don advance your jim perry perry dsinc decision support inc matthews opinions for nominal fee can
alt.atheism	yeah article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes benedikt rosenau writes and that revelation thing charley you talking this intellectual engagement revelation risk takes core question suggest scenario will grant that god exists and revelation communicate humans revelation taking form paraphrased your words this infinitely powerful deity grabs poor schmuck makes dictation and hides for hundred years exists human not personally experienced revelation this person observes that not revelations elements that contradict strongly aspects observed world this person mutually contradictory claims revelation based this can this person blamed for concluding absent personal revelation that almost nothing this revelation thing not objectivist not impressed problems conceptualization problem this case bad that explain quantum mechanics and relativity terms ordinary experience can rough understanding language perspective ordinary phenomena inconsistent and perspective described inexact charitable analogous situation supposedly obtains metaphysics problem that descriptive language not absent this language and absent observations support claims revelation can blamed for doubting thing driving thought long time this come honest conclusion that deity nothing proposed religion that familiar happen christian god will held accountable for such honest mistake sincerely ray ingles ingles engin umich edu meek can earth rest stars robert heinlein
alt.atheism	ancient islamic rituals pkqe inn lynx unm edu cfaehl vesta unm edu chris faehl writes article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes deleted point nutshell opinion that pre marital sex makes likelihood extra marital sex probable opinion extra marital sex helps break partnerships and leads greater divorce rates this turn opinion creates trauma and stable environment for children opinion likely grow psychological problems such depression etc and sex marriage long run harmful society that you drawing links sex marriage nothing adultery once committed into marriage issue committed you not foisting pain your spouse and confident you addition marriage business not mine and not witnessed strong relationships that incorporate extra marital sex agree your assertion children children not witness such confusing relationships adultery stressful adults assume general can expect children understand evidence for opinions moment generalities can cite for example read that century percentage youth and people general suffer depression steadily climbing western societies reading referred usa similarly can detect trend greater occurrence sex marriage this century western societies sexual revolution even that sexual revolution not gradual weakening christianity and christian moral teachings sex marriage propose that two trends greater level general depression society and psychological problems and greater sexual promiscuity linked prime cannot provide evidence this this stage thesis reasonable and request that people ponder reasonable trend obesity and trend depression you can pick your two favorite trends notice correlation and make sweeping statement generality mean you can and people that not mean that valid reasonable thesis gross oversimplification push pull factors people experience argument proposal plausible argument extra marital sex personally truth main purpose for posting show that plausible argument can made extra marital sex this stage not that this viewpoint proven that that plausible convince you this point view lot work researching this field etc order gather evidence simply not time note that that extra marital sex prime opinion generally greater levels psychological problems depression western societies not prime prime significant contributions this trend you you view simplistic you forgotten this admit that factors that extra marital sex and imo subsequent destabilization family significant factor rise psychological problems depression western society this century fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	ancient islamic rituals ednclark kraken ednclark kraken itc edu jeffrey clark writes cfaehl vesta unm edu chris faehl writes reasonable trend obesity and trend depression you can pick your two favorite trends notice correlation and make sweeping statement generality mean you can and people that not mean that valid reasonable thesis gross oversimplification push pull factors people experience basically social interactions changing factors society complicated for control hold panic handles and hope that heading for soft landing things for depression and destruction nuclear family not due solely sex marriage note that never that depression and destruction nuclear family due solely extra marital sex specifically that prime this not prime this recognize that factors that extra marital sex and subsequent destabilization family significant factor rise psychological problems including depression west century fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	sex allowed marriage rationality islamic marriage apr proxima alt lucio proxima alt lucio writes darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes point view that argument sexism bad simply not hold give you example permitting woman temporarily leave job due pregnancy that allowed happens sexist women nevertheless despite fact that sexist completely support such law fred you exasperating sexism racialism form discrimination obvious physical cultural differences deny portion population rights another this context your example holds water whatsoever discrimination denying men maternity leave fact quite convinced that experiment male pregnancy for such future father leave medical grounds argued this weeks ago men and women physically physiologically and psychologically recent evidence for this statement present book brainsex anne moir and david jessel recommend you find copy and read book overview recent scientific research this topic and referenced women and men ways law can adequately into account areas taking into account ways men and women maternity leave example this takes into account that women pregnant not give women rules give men treat women treats men this instance unjust this simply obvious example men and women intrinsically people make naive argument that sexism oppression maternity leave sexist men not pregnant men not access leave that women not extent degree and sexist matter man pregnant and maternity leave never can and law sexist man can access maternity leave matter hard pregnant hope this clear maternity leave example sexist law sexism reflects sexism nature making men and women differences men and women subtle pregnancy and find recommend you book brainsex your point that perhaps day men can pregnant fallacious men can day become pregnant will biologically become women womb and factors required for pregnancy wrapped definition woman your argument examined fallacious you that men can sexist maternity leave privilege that women can become women supports statement that maternity leave sexist discrimination comes woman denied opportunities legally determined sexual inferiorities understand religious sexual discrimination and doubt that islam exceptional female not allowed into priestly caste and general subjugated that aspirations rights equal human entitled official priesthood islam this function islamic scholars female islamic scholars and female islamic scholars existed islam example early islamic history prophet widow aisha recognized time and recognized time islamic scholar matter sweetly you coat part role religions historically served function oppressing female whether forcing procreate extent opportunity for improvement denying access facilities males offered you evidence for your blanket statement religions and dispute and women islam etc recently reposted heading islam and women your news site suggest you read reposted soc religion islam disappeared alt atheism soc religion islam forgot original title will email you you roman catholic church blatant culprit istitutionalised celibate clergy religious woman attempt escape role child bearer and wrath god descends your statement that religions statement based simply lack knowledge religions christianity and perhaps judaism accept your affirmation that islam grants women rights men you can show that muslim woman can aspire position khomeini and artificial religious social obstacles path achieve this aisha mentioned earlier not islamic scholar stage military leader show equivalent hillary rhodam clinton islam and discussing issue you prophet wife died hijra prophet journey mecca medina successful businesswoman lucio you cannot make strong case for your viewpoint your viewpoint based ignorance world religions fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	ancient islamic rituals dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes discussion pros and cons sex marriage personally that part lasting partnerships men and women that this helps provide stable and secure environment for children grow deletion addition chris faehl post homosexuals islamic viewpoint homosexuality not norm for society cannot islamic viewpoint homosexuality not research fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	benediktine metaphysics article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes benedikt rosenau writes great authority contradictory cannot exist contradictory property language correct this things defined contradictory language not exist will object definitions reality you amend things described contradictory language not exist come plainly false failures description failures description this description object that time euclidean square and euclidean circle hold that object satisfying this description exist description inconsistent and describes object that not exist suppose pointed bicycle and that object time euclidean square and euclidean circle this not mean that bicycle not exist measn that description incorrectly applied atheist descriptions god that presented contradictory and describe that cannot exist your position can gather that god exists descriptions atheists presented simply bad descriptions this roughly analogous never bicycle and for description people claim told that euclidean circle square can blamed for doubting strongly that this bicycle exists not objectivist remember kidding sincerely ray ingles ingles engin umich edu meek can earth rest stars robert heinlein
alt.atheism	islamic authority women article apr dcs warwick simon dcs warwick simon clippingdale writes for guy arrived and asked whether bobby for real you betcha alt atheism and rest assured that gets worse pearls wisdom bobby reproduce below keith keeping big file such stuff misplaced diskette last couple months efforts bobby replenished quickly recent favorite satan and angels not freewill god tells mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu satan and angels not freewill god tells mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu
alt.atheism	visit jehovah witnesses good grief article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes amount energy spent lousy syllogism volumes for true position reason this group agree spend energy nonexistance god satan and angels not freewill god tells mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu
alt.atheism	evo homosexuality princeton etc bill had clear this good evolutionary arguments homosexuality don qualify article vwn darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes wainwright eczcaw mips nott wrote deletions odd homosexuality had evolutionary function deletions time man sex woman intend produce children hmm world overpopulated you monty python song sperm sacred and you purpose means limit population growth your arguement natural context talking evolutionary function basic requirements evolution that members species procreate don purpose that context guess social insects ants bees etc breeding queen and passel sterile workers huh days ain true people can decide whether not children and will choose sex that another arguement lifestyle decision your arguement since homosexuals can not choose not reproduce akin people decide sex not children unnatural each another sequitur sex evolutionary function that exists for procreation that recreation incidental that homosexuals don procreate means that sex recreation and nothing serve evolutionary purpose refer you bonobos species primate closeley related humans chimpanzees that closely sex time homosexual heterosexual group finds food sex sleep night sex escape fight prdators sex sex serves important social function and reproduction this species species closely related humans indication that sex performs social function humans even not this shows that such function not impossible sincerely ray ingles ingles engin umich edu meek can earth rest stars robert heinlein
alt.atheism	vonnegut atheism yesterday chance hear kurt vonnegut speak university hampshire vonnegut succeeded isaac asimov honorary head american humanist association vonnegut atheist and asimov asimov funeral vonnegut stood and asimov heaven ignited uproarious laughter room people speaking time funeral funniest thing possibly room full humanists vonnegut yesterday lecture vonnegut comes speak your university highly recommend even you never read novels opinion greatest living humorist greatest living humanist humorist peace dana
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes clarify muslims mean muslim general calls muslim and not outwardly profess clear contradiction essential teachings islam considered muslim things contrary islam ignorance for example not suddenly not become muslim knowingly transgresses islamic teachings and essential principles leave islam you and bobby sit and decide exactly islam posting zlumber not muslim evil muslin can evil evil suffering temporary athiesm members claim muslims stories straight satan and angels not freewill god tells mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu
alt.atheism	request for support article apr sei cmu edu dpw sei cmu edu david wood writes you respond articles include similar answer questions posed you charley challenges agreed satan and angels not freewill god tells mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu
alt.atheism	bill conner article mlr darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes you explain this pertains this position statement typing practice and you name you this relates and bill you explain pertains this position statement typing practice satan and angels not freewill god tells mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu
alt.atheism	soc motss princeton axes matching funds for boy scouts article jvigneau apr ulowell edu jvigneau ulowell edu joe vigneau writes bsa taught don tolerance met this guy thought gays faries bsa taught antibigot give testimonial experience scout back issue wasn gays principles for put testimonial stan krieger and kind this discussion doesn belong and intolerance acceptable position scouting notice bsa hijacked religious core values survived spite leadership and scouts and scouts haven testimonial this reminds that scouting worth fighting for cautionary note you realize that your experience this camp leader bsa you putting risk publicizing word leak bsa gestapo bill mayne
alt.atheism	soc motss princeton axes matching funds for boy scouts wainwright eczcaw mips nott wrote jim thought that homophobe word used act rallies didn beleive real people used agree term definition homophobe actively and militantly attacks homosexuals latent homosexual hostility conceal true orientation since disapproves condemns homosexuality homophobe your implication clear necessarily follow that men latent homosexuals bisexual crap crap crap crap crap definition type phobe comes phobia irrational fear homophobe not act meetings word apparently general use perhaps isn bible wouldst thou prefer communicate thou bilespeak arachnophobe irrational fear spider agoraphobe irrational fear wide open space you understand english phobia will react will avoid and that not will strike run gaybashings occur natural processes people definately homophobia will run gay people violence isn that you taking issue your remarks parenthetical mine and add nothing odd homosexuality had evolutionary function limiting population growth since evolution occurs members generation pass traits subsequent generations homosexuality evolutionary deadend your usage term homophobe sense you intend men homosexual and evolution species time man sex woman intend produce children hmm world overpopulated you monty python song sperm sacred and you purpose means limit population growth your arguement natural context talking evolutionary function basic requirements evolution that members species procreate don purpose that context another point that offspring each generation survive participation parents family exist since homosexuals not reproduce cannot constitute family since majority humankind part family homosexuality evolutionary abberation contrary nature you will that true your arguements homosexuals vanished years ago due procreation parent single parent families put babies cold cos your arguement die your argument homosexuality genetically determined your second point you prove that you idea context means talking evolution preservation species fundamental premise process gets worse since overwhelming majority people prefer heterosexual relationship homosexuality social abberation homosexual eschews biological imperative reproduce and social imperative form and participate fundamental social element family wait read expect you ten children family growing days sex procreation admittedly pleasure pre pill and pre condom days you had sex chance producing children days ain true people can decide whether not children and will choose sex that another arguement lifestyle decision your arguement since homosexuals can not choose not reproduce akin people decide sex not children unnatural each another sequitur sex evolutionary function that exists for procreation that recreation incidental that homosexuals don procreate means that sex recreation and nothing serve evolutionary purpose since homosexuals come closet and convinced policy makers that civil rights claiming that sexuality preference life style orientation choice that protected law homosexuality mere choice and contrary nature and anti social perverse choice even credibility prominent people people people you live life you god fancy date pretty obvious dodge you you you feel obligated respond statement not telling demonstrating that arguments practice homosexuality providing alternate lifestlye that not homophobic that can call perverse context even atheist can understand realize that this comes dangerously close establishing and that atheists compelled object that basis you consistent you case this regard characterize opposition homosexuality homophobic ignore compelling arguments legitimization homosexual life style since charge intended intimidate demogoguery and not fact jim persuasive arguments for suppressing homosexuality this start crap your arguments based outdated ideals likewise bible honest christian condemn ten generations spawned bastard eternal damnation crushes penis accidently not deuteronomy your comment pertains you disguised can mention ideals dated your arguments reactionary you contribute homosexuals excluded participation scouting reasons used restrict teaching logic homosexuals deviates social and biological since adult role model for child incumbent parent ensure that child isolated child harm this case harm means primarily social that extended easily you show sex that describe normal and will hat puma baseball cap you man meat another man poison this you pick single point that you find offensive and explain your objections that you can discuss this issue intelligibly bill
alt.atheism	fluids liquids west wam umd edu brian west writes deleted similar analogy can made glass for you don glass liquid your science teacher and flow deleted your science teacher tells you glass liquid science teacher glass supercooled fluid not liquid high temperatures definition liquid includes readily takes form container accurate don want people creationists uunet tektronix sail mikec cranford uunet tektronix sail labs tek mikec principal troll arpa mikec sail labs tek relay net resident skeptic csnet mikec sail labs tek teklabs tektronix
alt.atheism	gospel dating article vyfu darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes keith ryan kmr cwru edu wrote wild and fanciful claims require greater evidence you state that books your room blue not evidence you claim that two headed leapard your bed and don mean male lover leotard keith issue truth consequences proposition argued irrelevent issue consequences such and such true truth irrelevent disagree proposition amount evidence and support can miriad factors for each individual quite require levels evidence pointed history important fussr not comrade states that owns pairs blue jeans evidence lived united states time such statement raise eyebrow individual wear business suits etc degree effect world and strength claim determine amount evidence determining level evidence relevent consequences proposition consequences proposition irrelvent explain not accept electro magnetic force attraction two charged particles inversely proportional cube distance apart remember consequences law not relevent can not use experimental evidence disproof consequences law incongruency law and state affairs incongruency this law and natural law irrelevent theorizing truth law that consequences proposition irrelvent including consequence contradiction contradiction state affiars judge true not alone find truth truth define inserting conversation explain truth truth that for even truth never possibly find concept meaningless satan and angels not freewill god tells mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu
alt.atheism	morality constant biblical rape article jxd darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes couple things your post and this thread that confusing atheist for things can understood processes nature exclusively for recourse divnity describe explain purpose direction for event required physics chemistry biology etc random nothing determnined this posts contains fallacies respond abolishment divinity requires elimination freewill you not shown this you not even attempted existance omniscience eliminate freewill mortals posted months ago refute give reasonable reasons satan and angels not freewill god tells mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu
alt.atheism	gospel dating article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes deletion cannot evidence for cynics this group accept for second foundation religion claims risen jesus back day period believer and discounted this group since ancients choose dismiss thing metaphysical relationship even agree argued length means don evidence cookies charlie claims that jesus discredited extraordinary claims that don match evidence this case for that gospels cannot even agree jesus zillions spook stories and even religious context evidence resurrection elaborate arguments made not passed your post filtering interpret extraordinary claims claim statement that speaker will not accept evidence matter evidence strict meaning actual evidence part nothing claims charlie invisible pink unicorns your standards evidence for ipus benedikt
alt.atheism	contradictions article oys clj austin ibm yoder austin ibm stuart yoder writes universe you theists cannot understand that inside universe and universe two places put god universe and you subtract ability interact inside universe put inside universe and you impose rules physics god universe things universe not ability interact inside universe god cannot interact inside universe basis whatsoever you positive knowledge this corrallary negation contridict not complete model physical rules governing inside universe expect that contradictory events likely destroy fabric modern physics hand your notion omnipotent omniscient and infinitely benevolent god not subject physical laws you attempt explain this describing measurement measurement means can measurable effect reality cannot interact ergo your god irrelevant god measure measurement means can measurable effect reality god cannot measurable effect reality basis whatsoever corrallary negation contradict satan and angels not freewill god tells mozumder snm ultb isc rit edu
alt.atheism	ontology benediktine metaphysics article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes contradictory cannot exist contradictory property language correct this things defined contradictory language not exist correct stands will object definitions reality you amend things described contradictory language not exist come plainly false failures description failures description you miss point things defined contradictory language not exist existing meant conclusions drawn description wrong possibility find described and draw conclusions direct knowledge described another possibility drop contradictory part that implies that can trust concept presented and that not doubt source not objectivist remember things directly sensed includes form modelling used modelling contradictive modelling not approved remain question contradictory can sensed contradictory important point that manages resolve contradictions forced not use refer contradictory part drawing conclusions will fall garbage garbage trap benedikt
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie references deleted move this thread article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes article phkf inn dsi dsinc perry dsinc jim perry writes rushdie understand muslim fact that british citizen not preclude muslim rushdie atheist use local terminology not put words mouth time writing tsv and time fatwa february born muslim fairly muslim explicitly renounces islam never explicitly renounced islam extreme doubt existence god muslim legal intellectual issue islam put simply not muslim not accept charge apostacy never adult life affirmed belief and not affirmed can not apostasized islam states that can coercion matters religion muslims respect horrified idea that belong faith purely virtue birth and that person freely chose not muslim put death salman rushdie good faith god satan paradise and hell vanished day fifteenth year quite abruptly lost faith and prove found atheism bought tasteless ham sandwich and partook for time forbidden flesh swine thunderbolt arrived strike that day this thought wholly seculat person salman rushdie god trust rushdie affair discredited islam eyes khomeini fanatics and fringe elements religions even apparently moderate muslims participated refused distance witch hunt rushdie this true khomenei motivations quite irrelevant issue fact matter that rushdie made false statements fiction line fact and fiction life mohammad functional illiterate absolutely conception nature such thing accept reluctantly mobs pakistan not you presented fictional dream demented character cannot wildest stretch imagination considered reflection actual mohammad worse doesn present mahound mohammed character worse light secular histories islam lewd misrepresentation life that wives that people rush defense considered absolute fool for writings satanic verses don hold back considered apostate and blasphemer not for writing satanic verses for people accepted propagandistic version contained that book find single muslim convinced that read book initially claimed shown knowledge book superficial newsweek story impart and made factual misstatements events book you understand reasons this origin concept satanic verses penguin paperback rafiq zakariyah called mohammad and quran eye for counter proposal suggest that you viking hardcover salman rushdie called satanic verses perhaps you understand jim perry perry dsinc decision support inc matthews opinions for nominal fee can
alt.atheism	visit jehovah witnesses article apr batman bmd trw jbrown batman bmd trw writes article twso ileaf mukesh ileaf mukesh prasad writes article apr batman bmd trw jbrown batman bmd trw writes article ainn matt ksu ksu edu strat matt ksu ksu edu steve davis writes bskendig netcom brian kendig writes earth evil satan rules this guess since witness bothered implying that satan omniscient you tricking into that satan knowing and use that statement show beliefs contradictary satan not omniscient hold dominion earth christian theology note not confused theology standard theologies created satan and orthodox christian theology states that god created lucifer satan angels wanted beings celebrate glorify existence and life and thereby god whys and wherefores god motivations for creating angels not big issue christian theology god created lucifer perfect nature and gave angels free moral will lucifer high angel perhaps highest great authority that greatness caused begin pride and desire equal greater god forgot place created exalted god and thereby evil and sin entered creation story that lucifer refused bow man god commanded lucifer devoted god yeah nothing genesis that snake snake talking had legs time don pointing contradictions stories show error theology supernatural entity kicked humans paradise bit into fruit that gave special powers not respond reason and logic brian
alt.atheism	ancient islamic rituals article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes discussion pros and cons sex marriage evidence for opinions moment generalities can cite for example read that century percentage youth and people general suffer depression steadily climbing western societies reading referred usa similarly can detect trend greater occurrence sex marriage this century western societies sexual revolution even that sexual revolution not gradual weakening christianity and christian moral teachings sex marriage propose that two trends greater level general depression society and psychological problems and greater sexual promiscuity linked prime cannot provide evidence this this stage thesis reasonable and request that people ponder fred rice muslim giving point view darice yoyo monash edu this big leap sex depression example sex depression promiscuity decline depression not and reasonable depression promiscuity depression likely come emotional problems relationships family job friends and promiscuity used escape since marriage civil and religious bond emotional bond don problem sex not marriage long you commitment and devotion expected married couple this opinion brian
alt.atheism	yeah article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes and that revelation thing charley you talking this intellectual engagement revelation risk takes not rational intellectual madness qualify intellectual engagement people that concept metaphysical and religious knowledge contradictive not objectivist not impressed problems conceptualization problem this case bad that explain quantum mechanics and relativity terms ordinary experience can rough understanding language perspective ordinary phenomena inconsistent and perspective described inexact charitable exactly science mathematics representation natural language not supposed replace elaborate representation mathematical terminology supposed truth opposed representation gods religions ordinary language admittedly not religion fancy side effect inept representations eternal hassles religions and for making experiments that will lead results that will agreed similar show similar religion analogous situation supposedly obtains metaphysics problem that descriptive language not effect that models presented useless and can argue that that reason metaphysics flourish makes statements that can verified falsified showing that bogus and case holds reliable information can you show you establish that this word reliable essentially meaningless context you can show reliability can determined haven you read posts reliability and can acheived determined benedikt
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law psilink robert knowles psilink writes date sat apr gmt fred rice darice yoyo monash edu ivt cfj fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes british blowing skyscrapers don you you implying that person accused blowing wtc and that islamic teachings blowing wtc wtc world trade centre building that blown make comments person accused innocent proven guilty remember secondly holes accusation that read for instance guy used that van blow building and back and claim deposit back incredibly stupid perhaps salamen uneducated muslims hear nevertheless apparently smart put together sophisticated bomb doesn fit together salameh not person involved fellow chemical engineer working for allied signal had specifically studied explosive devices school not radical muslim types study things this universities for price freedom read fellow told salameh put together phone bomb supposedly sort sophisticated type put assume complicated sophisticated bomb together instructions phone brains expect despite this attacks and threats mosques and muslims united states consequence accusation read this happening live and heard mosque attacks mosques houston texas and can verify this great jewish media conspiracy keeping knowing this heard mosque attacks desert storm venture quiet localized jersey read this article australian muslim times newspaper weekly australian muslim community this true perhaps muslims based north america this posting can elaborate islamic teachings teach harming innocent qur explicitly teaches harming innocents even times war blowing wtc and harming innocents blatant contradiction islamic teachings this means absolutely nothing plenty people commit violence valid religious principles people post things koran misinterpreted that explanation you use uneducated muslim harm idolators and unbelievers thing muslim that muslim that islam teaches harming innocents and supposed you word that never happens you consequence allah strike alleged violence occurs not muslims commit violent act and hides verses koran pretty hip that trick and even doubt that will come trials defense that muslim and islam teaches not harm innocent people killed not innocent set bomb your honor you remember sir muslim allah powerful allah not allowed this you insulting religion great defense admit that incredibly stupid violent muslims world and stop hiding that fact good deny makes reasonable muslims protecting bad can you that don deny this fact thrust argument that salameh law innocent not found guilty court law guilt not established wrong for people make postings based this assumption islam teaches not harm innocents muslims perhaps not realized that islam teaches this perform such actions not teachings islam spite and contradiction teachings islam this important distinction clarify muslims mean muslim general calls muslim and not outwardly profess clear contradiction essential teachings islam considered muslim things contrary islam ignorance for example not suddenly not become muslim knowingly transgresses islamic teachings and essential principles leave islam term muslim contrasted min means true believer whether muslim reality min god and perhaps that person you will not find term min used muslims alt atheism not and god whether for example true believer not for example putting show and reality opposite write knowing muslims mean outwardly profess follow islam whether practice ignorance transgress islamic teachings muslim not necessarily mean min true believer islam fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	gospel dating mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes david wood writes extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence this high falutin don you you making meta argument case you wrong invisible pink unicorns existence jesus not extradinary claim responding historical accuracy biblical claims existence jesus and that not even mentioned post you want complain that miracles attributed constitute such claims and won argue that issue wrong that exactly issue back and read context included post and you mean that you kindness responding your questions for answer charley challenges your claim that not variety dishonest dodge that feel fools person dave wood
alt.atheism	and another thing mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes keith ryan writes you will ignore criticism your logic incongruenties your stance you will not answer questions validity opinion and facts you state start that not and response reason continue not argue version position cannot argued your version your position included charley challenges your claim flat lie last week you claimed that you not answer challenges you turned included text you want your context included articles not come this contradiction makings entry challenges post bloody thing that you written related this thread and will pleased post back position you forgotten that you leave electronic paper trail net this usual theist approach matter times argument disproven shown applicable sequitur cropping time time speaking sequiturs this and sauce for goose disproof fallacies repeated and such law nature argument posted recently not change subject wouldn finish thread question you begin dave wood
alt.atheism	periodic post charley challenges additions this version challenge addendum summarizing charley responses date this posting made periodically attempt encourage charley wingate address direct challenges evidently specious claims continue post periodically answers publicly that won answer stops posting alt atheism alt atheism community tells stop totally bored apologize for somewhat juvenile nature this approach loss figure another crack intransigence and intellectual dishonesty this post charley can notice that you failed provide answers substantive questions that raised response your previous posts submit that you don answer you cannot answer running afoul your logic and once challenge you prove wrong make task easy for you present concise statements questions that you failed answer hope that you address time for you fail answer reasonable time period will post this article suitable additions and deletions such time that notice post you another topic will repeat this procedure you address outstanding challenges you cease post this newsgroup apologize advance you answered questions previously and your answer missed notice you can kind post mail such articles will pleased publicly rescind challenge question and remove this list questions claiming that atheists fit into neat psychological patterns that you proposed semi retracting that claim stating that you weren referring atheists asked you name atheists you feel don fit your patterns show that you not referring atheists that you aware you failed question can you name posters not fit into your stereotype context for question this not true for this board and you line assuming that you deleted text that didn mean imply that experience lines whether not you mean make such implications you repeatedly approach issue another viewpoint can you name atheists that you come across not fit into patterns that you theorize you umbrage statements effect that senses and reason and pressed you implied that alternative called revelation repeatedly asked you explain revelation and can experience and interpret revelation senses and reason you failed question can you explain revelation and can experience and interpret senses and inherent reasoning context for question revelation not reason and revelation reasoning not show that revelation exists second revelation not perceived senses exactly perceived webster revelation act revealing communicating divine truth such thing can revealed communicated senses you can interpret this revelation reason that your brain interpret you sensing for human interface universe senses interpreted reason your brain this simple truth you another mechanism interface means share you cannot escape fact that entire interface universe senses and reason period this indefensible simple truth challenge you show mystics will agree this assertion and common defense redefining senses absorb for instance mystical experiences begs question whether senses you broadest definition senses make things easier for you show that mystical experiences exist remember you aren allowed testimony mystics since you dismissed testimony unreliable you tainted bias once mystical thingies absorbed show evidence that human can recognize and respond short interpretation that person reasoning capabilities challenge you show things you cannot you give fight reiterate you not explained your interpretation your experiences not for attacked point fact specifically challenged you explain this revelation stuff that you talking and note for record that you declined challenge sensed interpreted and this sensing and interpretation occur conduit senses and reasoning abilities you answered questions that straight heart your claims you can answer your claims specious you stated that claims dispassionate analysis made posters unverifiable and fantastical asked you identify such claim that made you failed question made claims that unverifiable and fantastical repeat context for question david wood sensitive and intelligent wrong posting likewise reference unverifiable fantastical claims represents fairly accurately reaction claims dispassionate analysis that repeated this group give your address and pleased send you dictionary failing that can you name claim that made that sense unverifiable fantastical demand that you retract this statement you cannot offer evidence you follow your usual pattern ignoring challenge you simply asshole you dismissed claims atheists that atheists result reason you stated that accepted axioms reason that couldn become atheist asked you explain contradiction your response statement that question incoherent opinion not shared that asked atheist theist you failed answer question question you retract your claim that posters not become atheists result reason despite testimony that effect you don retract that claim you retract subsequent claim that acceptance axioms reason inevitably result atheism context for question quote bunch people claim that position based reason atheists prove second quote not can accept axioms and not end atheistic point view you claimed that you not answer challenges contained included text previous posts you implied that you wouldn respond putting words your mouth clarify this contradiction question you prefer respond challenges that include context your posts that paraphrase your positions order avoid included text context for question you ordinary rules that don read articles lines articles nothing included text screen not rules morality practicality not argue version position cannot argued usual your responses awaited anticipation dave wood for record below compilation charley responses challenges date this makes sense appearance utter incoherence answering question wood imagination wood not subscribe opinion that gauntlet thrown net requires response whatsoever point read and respond your article and not ordinary rules that don read articles lines articles nothing included text screen not rules morality practicality left don respond utmost list things avoid arguments arguments meta arguments call start that not and response reason continue not argue version position cannot argued
alt.atheism	political atheists halat pooh bears jim halat writes objective morality exist that flavors morality approximations once natural objective morality fairly easily defined long you goal mind that purpose this morality not quite getting you mean this objective morality oxymoron definition goal oriented issue this subjective nature don you word objective goal not subjective for instance goal natural morality propogation species perhaps wasn intelligent animals that revisions this intelligent animals and morality suited bit complicated law jungle don that actualization subjective you and objectivity assuming that ideals such system carried completely keith
alt.atheism	request for support request for charley wingate respond charley challenges and judging mail quite you clear that wingate intends continue post tangential unrelated articles ingoring challenges last two postings challenges noted perhaps dozen posts wingate answered single challenge unmistakable that wingate hopes that questions will and level change subject that this common net theist tactic suggest that impress desire for answers manner ignore future articles wingate that not address challenges answers explictly announces that refuses you respond articles include similar answer questions posed you charley challenges not humiliate want honest answers you wouldn that honesty devout christian you nevermind that rhetorical question dave wood
alt.atheism	gospel dating article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes assuming you presenting accurately don this argument leads firm conclusion material john not exactly referred for granted similarity matt luke material almost relationship two john getting straight jesus mouth argument john codified version logia and not original assuming that weaknesses that john original referred text that logia codified version place argument alone not firm conclusion fits into dating for gospels talking date texts not age authors usual explanation for time order mark matthew and luke not respective ages matthew read text mark and luke that matthew and that mark version usual theory heard matthew and luke independently relying mark and that luke relied matthew wouldn grating inconsistencies geneologies for thing not necessarily luke trusted version knew version matthew improving matthew give motive for instance theory that luke matthew based statistical analysis texts assumed that john knew content luke text evidence for that not overwhelming admittedly this part that that you point reference grateful yep will another day source hope your german good haven info hand late early and possibly shed doubt order putting john rest closes gap supposed writing and existing copy quit bit original copies can written and survival becomes probable not copies change dating john that john disciple not generally accepted style and language together theology used counterargument not impressed theology argument pointing this and pointed earlier cannot make arguments peter reason not accept authentic letter possibilities and evidence authencity letters discussed conclusions not drawn pet dogmas churches fall step and generation removed bad even times compare that reports similar events century almost illiterate societies analogy reporters talking participants not bad newsletter political party reporting big meeting not necessarily wrong bad words not original mark and arguments based mark pretty weak statement divinity not that section and case agreed that important epistles predate mark accuracy tradition another problem question letters not paul and predating mark claiming divinity jesus benedikt
alt.atheism	americans and evolution article dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes article tinn senator bedfellow mit edu bobs thnext mit edu robert singleton writes deletion will argue that your statement that gods exist rest faith that you making positive statement that gods exist strong atheism don and don and don not weak atheism once not god that god not exist maintain position even reading faqs that strong atheism requires faith used view you that driving car requires faith that car drives not this requires faith part car drives drive fact driven require faith belief that senses give accurate representation evidence pro con for existence existence god below this for conclusion and faith premises and argument used remain skeptical don conclusion that you evidence that god correct lack evidence for existence evidence for existence creationist similar mode argumentation disprove evolution establish creation you personally never neutrino exist pink unicorn analogy breaks and naive scientific theory that explains appearance animal life evolution draw conclusion that pink unicorns don exist haven this conclusion foundation observation and theory pink unicorn exist qualitatively similar entities that since good evidence that life earth evolved primitive ancestors pink unicorns share common anscestory horses and zebras and such god such correspondence imo physical frame work observation draw conclusions language problem regards faith and existence christian maintain that god not exist exist means space and time god not god kierkegaard once that god not exist eternal this feel pointless debate called existence god and that not that god source and ground you that god not exist accept this statement mean two things follows will use phrase existence god usual sense and this sense that you clarification you mean existence god that word game disagree you profoundly this haven defined god existence fact haven defined god this getting subject you relevant can come back god existence waste time existence used and replace god you implying case your definition and your argument incomplete making fallacy you wrong categories perhaps you misunderstand making argument and offering definition fallacy not convince you and that rests faith and inappropriate apply category logic this realm tells you that can logically prove god that evidence use logic disprove claims fine and btw incomplete argument not fallacy things not even wrong deletion can never prove that god not exist you that you god not exist and that this opinion based observation will observtions you refering observations pro con that valid establishing positive belief deletion that follow aren observations based assumption that exists don follow you can make observations things that didn existed maintain that cannot use observation infer that god not exist such positive assertion requires leap and wouldn you level definition that assumption god meaningful not reject that concept your evidence for that god meaningful level once you completely misunderstand evidence that god meaningful level such response you gave comes naturally you people run private conception god your throat not this arguing and thing that make positive assertion for can principle evidence for requires leap requires faith you theist form atheism that can respect founded honesty benedikt bob singleton bobs thnext mit edu
alt.atheism	second law albert sabin joel hanes jjh diag amdahl wrote connor assertion that complex paleontology simply incorrect lineages structures lost for example snakes lost legs cave fish lost eyes species almost completely lost males kiwis descended birds functional wings joel statements made illustrative inescapably anthrpomorphic quality desciption evolutionary process evolution can described explained terms teleological that point even reason understand evolution biologists for instance tend personify nature and can limits language nature nature bill
alt.atheism	gospel dating keith ryan kmr cwru edu wrote wild and fanciful claims require greater evidence you state that books your room blue not evidence you claim that two headed leapard your bed and don mean male lover leotard keith issue truth consequences proposition argued irrelevent issue consequences such and such true truth irrelevent bill
alt.atheism	gospel dating jim perry perry dsinc wrote bible god that true atheism mistaken pretty obvious socrates gods that true your monotheism and atheism mistaken even socrates never existed jim you come late discussion part began benedikt questioning historical acuuracy making point that standards used validate secular history that used discredit history virtually nothing century you that bible cannot true speaks existence god fact your objection nothing history another statement atheism bill
alt.atheism	not omni charley wingate mangoe umd edu wrote enlighten omnipotence contradictory definition that can occur universe governed rules nature god cannot break that god allowed rules omnipotence cannot exist contradicts rules nature omnipotent god can change rules you definition exactly defined not omnipotence you that rules nature pre existant that not define nature that you mean hear your thoughts question bill
alt.atheism	knew prudenti juncol juniata edu wrote arriving home joseph advantage mary had speak word this couldn mary highly religious follower that decided hey that god impregnated will trustworthy and honorable soul believed and jesus child born violence dave can you explain purpose your post can imagine you thougt meant bill
alt.atheism	allah akbar and praise lord maddi hausmann madhaus netcom wrote and lord that bill connor returned set straight can die happy lexus wipes that rain slick curve rest you had straighten your time even limited you flu maddi you you glad visit won stay long this time shopping bill
alt.atheism	dear theist pixie andy bgsu edu wrote for problems technology caused your types made things even worse reminded inquisition operation rescue klux klan posse comitatus club david duke salem witch trials crusades gay bashings etc virtually each and single war level technology had theistic organizations cheering carnage chaplains etc and claiming that god favor ordeal don forget pray for troops this tedious bad thing that happened malefactors influence religion that pretty general opinion want that atheists not that dishonest stick facts and accomplished that interpret correctly bill
alt.atheism	morality constant biblical rape jim perry perry dsinc wrote xenophobia facto and jure implemented legal systems widespread bible not egalitarian specifically preaches kindness stranger and emphasizes book ruth that foreigner can join nation and give rise great heroes nation alternative american strikes strange this story that even considered issue jim couple things your post and this thread that confusing atheist for things can understood processes nature exclusively for recourse divnity describe explain purpose direction for event required physics chemistry biology etc random nothing determnined this include human intelligence and products nothing requiring that life evolve that acquire intelligence happy accident for atheist event can preferred another another naturalistic sense and thought event can products intelligence acquired environment teaching training observation and experience and significant individual mind reside mental processes and images produce for electrical activity and nothing content consequence human mind response natural forces water running hill can atheist judge basis for criticizing values ennumerated bible purposes imputed god grounds can behavior reliogious condemned that judging values that motivate action you standard conduct measured nature can serve that purpose law nature can you invoke establish your values since event and exclusively physical event difference possibly make religious can meaning gradation atheist can object behaviour admit that objection subjective and that doesn that judgement prefaced disclaimer that nothing matter personal opinion and carries weight absolute sense that you don god told people nothing god god commands that electrical event your nervous system that created emotional state that your mind coupled pre existing thought set form that reaction that your objections founded due you conditioned truth content your intellectual landscape illusion virtual reality didn make rules inherent naturalistic atheism and consistent you accept significance human thought even your this you excluded discussion values wrong goood evil etc and cannot participate your opinion bible can weight whatsoever bill
alt.atheism	bill conner you explain this pertains this position statement typing practice and you name you this relates and bill
alt.atheism	islam dress code for women dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes deletion people religion and that this not exactly coming people religion nothing existing perspectives religion perhaps can that tend converge truth point that lot harm meantime and that converge counterfactual religions split and diverge even true religion core layers determine happens practise and quite inhumane you post supposed answer don will repeat religions harm people and religions don converge split giving disagree and lot disagreement tolerant tolerant ideologies split giving disagree and lead intolerance you oppose ideologies don your argument argument religion points weaknesses human nature big deletion women souls islam people that muslims that women not souls admit never heard such view held muslims era heard christians eras holding this viewpoint not muslims you you not confusing christian history islamic history supposed predominant view turkish caliphate reference you for this news that women spiritual equals men can shown verses qur for example qur for muslim men and women for believing men and women for devout men and women for true men and women for men and women patient and constant for men and women humble for men and women give charity for men and women fast and deny for men and women guard chastity and for men and women engage god praise for god prepared forgiveness and great reward qur abdullah yusuf ali translation quotes quote shows that men and women spiritual equals and that women souls men not implies that souls not souls and not that quote high priority interpretations approach qur intelligence thinking approach qur cannot interpret verse and that women and men spiritual equals that verse imply that women souls make sense for soul forgiven great reward understood life usual answer case part for god prepared forgiveness and great reward souls makes sense that things souls can forgiven idea soul for your that quote not high priority interpretations thinking approach qur give verses qur equal priority that muslim belief qur revelation god fact denying truth part qur sufficient considered disbeliever islam quite similar you post even quran not encourage slavery not justified that iit forbids puts end slavery sequitur approach qur intelligence and thought this fashion that can understand quran message book finite length cannot explicitly answer question you want put teachings can guide you that women spiritual equals men and unambiguously implied verse and that since women can forgiven and rewarded souls verse understand qur teach ways can misinterpreted ignoring this passage that passage misinterpretations qur based ignoring this verse that verse infinite interpretations fully consistent limited discuss interpretations consistent text people can ignore this bit that bit for that showing people can twist islam for ends not deny reflection true teachings islam whatsoever fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	slavery sex allowed marriage apr ennews eas asu edu guncer enuxha eas asu edu selim guncer writes you not bernard lewis writes label zionist such discredit etc you misrepresent selim hard evidence for statements lack objectivity presented quite book orientalism edward edward christian not muslim pretty objective treatment race and slavery middle east since distinguishes slavery islam and practice slavery countries prior civil war not conceal that verses quran promote liberation slaves doesn and don can deduce verses that slavery will eventually abolished islamic countries you conveniently blame practice slavery muslims facts fail relevance claim lewis zionist wrote bernard lewis zionist political motive for giving misrepresentations and half truths islam read orientalism edward evidence for fact post isn long encyclopaedic information can access that slavery abolished dates years muhammed that this tensions ottoman empire arab slave traders and government etc asu library volumes british documents slavery reports and documents slavery world can found checked incidents lewis mentions don political stance documentary evidence haven read lewis article can comment directly and spoken writings general that political motives make biased writer islam anti islamic polemics understand quite subtle and based telling half truths read orientalism edward not asking you trust fact urging you not this book book and check evidence for issue raised that slaves used for sexual purposes claimed that islam prohibits extra marital sex wrote that prophet had concubines wrote incident prophet advised not want concubine pregnant etc contrary notion that sex for procreation words such claims baseless quran and hadith slavery reality opposed practice muslims opposed islam slaves for sexual purposes necessarily opposed unsuccesful getting you islam not advocating slavery slavery existing institution century advised slaves freed for good deeds etc nothing cultures this good thing problem can argue rightfully that slaves discouraged thinking statuses politically quran rewards good slave obey your master and perhaps day you free understandable that not communicate muslims since assume quran god and rule based system imposed society for preservation status quo slaves part this system subordination women that function society boils child making part this system etc understand your point view selim not getting you points you repeat answered women made posting posting this subject showing that islam not anti woman etc you completely ignoring postings missing reposted good title islam and women reposted soc religion islam this disappeared your site email telling and will email you copy this excellent article imho your understanding issue women islam sadly deficient slaves posting slavery second made repost article wrote early last year based completely qur and contains numerous qur anic verses and hadiths support point view approaches you arguing historical standpoint and arguing directly teachings qur and hadiths people muslims and perform action that automatically mean that action part islam even opposed qur and sunnah not give you concrete example clarify this for you qur prohibits drinking person muslim and proceeds drink bottle beer this mean that islam teaches that people drink beer not and idiot you point natural that author authors quran had idea that socio economic structure advocating experience two paradigm shifts years western cultures end feudal era and rise commerce second industrial revolution rules changed and status quo driven muslim countries into misery survive heathen world muslim countries failed economically unable accumulate wealth directly due uncomprimising economic rules quran fact rise islam can easily modeled pyramid effect you not produce wealth home increase your wealth conquering places you judging islam capitalist terms capitalism ideology based largely assumption that people want maximise wealth this assumption opposition islamic teachings islam bad not capitalist pretty unthinking islam not pretend capitalist and not capitalist this not mean that islam not support free market for general parts capitalism opposed islam understand this stopped you and left bare open for emperialists devour capital industry poor social services education level muslim countries lowest world health statistics miserable etc can postulate numerous reasons for this your theory that islam not secularist and capitalist etc etc selim will give you clear historical example show you fallacy your views you you that islam lack education and power for large part history islamic world powerful for significant section history islamic world foremost sciences that islam for example anti education completely absurd you blame this situation islam history shows that your conclusion false and that reasons for this situation you blame muslims for not quran blame muslims for quran selim your viewpoint women islam makes question extent your knowledge islam you not knowledgeable judge whether muslims qur not your idea baseless historical facts poor utopia islamic world forefront world science stage your theory qur that muslims backwards education selim your thesis that anti historical for you conveniently overlook this historical fact contradicts your theory ideas derived social and economic history you not shown this you stated that your view islam anti education quite contrary history that you convinced your views makes objectively you this solution muslims simple cut crap selim you taking your advice facts straight and work hard reverse effects years ignorance selim you such conviction your viewpoint you demonstrate ignorance not islam islamic history respect muslims leaders science till you that your viewpoint based history selim remember you your earlier posts that you apostate islam you slow and start thinking issues and start reading postings islam ignoring you fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	jews can hide keith cco article pqdor fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes article apr bmerh bnr dgraham bmers bnr douglas graham writes poster casually trashed two thousand years jewish history and ken replied that had previously people germany problem that pretty part jews sightseeing for years thinking that important part original poster bit killing palestinians retrospect can sightseeing thing offensive originally poetic license understandable that differently that ken bit strong that your advice masud khan you argue arromdee good idea homework unnecessary that people formally nazis nazi party active and tacit support ordinary man street behaved casual anti semitism perfectly acceptable exactly don you understand wrote and don you matter hand your articles this thread tacit assumption that original poster exhibiting casual anti semitism agreed that your speech this bad relevant you reading lot into flip sentence not true this case charge anti semitism gets thrown order stifle legitimate criticism state israel outta this thread doug graham dgraham bnr opinions
alt.atheism	alt atheism faq frequently asked questions archive name atheism faq alt atheism archive name faq last modified april version alt atheism frequently asked questions this file contains responses articles occur repeatedly alt atheism points covered not covered introduction atheism you advised read that article posting answers not intended exhaustive definitive purpose periodic faq postings not stifle debate raise level you questions and isn covered answer feel free make your point overview contents purpose this newsgroup hitler atheist bible proves pascal wager occam razor good jesus that god exists einstein and god not play dice worships causeless universe complex designed independent evidence that bible true godel incompleteness theorem george bush atheism and patriotism hell biblical contradictions wanted usa christian nation usa not christian nation subject purpose this newsgroup typical posting newsgroup atheism atheists organize groups discuss response things discussed including whether reasonable feign theism order avoid upsetting family prayer schools discrimination atheists sunday trading laws satanic child abuse myth whether overt atheist stay closet religious societies prey sic college students rid unwanted proselytizers whether religion danger society and individual people become atheists inevitably alt atheism attract evangelical christians for convert readers newsgroup don want preached derive perverse pleasure tearing apart ill considered uninformed postings subject hitler atheist typical posting hitler atheist and response adolf hitler emphatically not atheist folkish minded man sacred duty each denomination making people stop talking superficially god will and fulfill god will and not god word desecrated orig ital for god will gave men form essence and abilities destroys work declaring war lord creation divine will man active each denomination you and man and sacred duty oppose activity word deed steps confines religious community and butt into today that acting accordance will almighty creator defending jew fighting for work lord orig ital adolf hitler mein kampf trans ralph mannheim bad believing not make that belief wrong that hitler lying claimed god can conclude that atheist subject bible proves typical posting bible that response readers alt atheism feel that bible questionable accuracy written thousands years ago authors recording oral tradition that existed years claimed truth questionable legitimacy this isn that bible truth simply that truth examined accepted readers this group feel that passage subject interpretation claim that passage means thing and thing not legitimate note that this feeling extend books remarkable atheists that theists tend ignore equally plausible religious books favour religion subject pascal wager typical posting you god and turn incorrect you lost nothing you don god and turn incorrect you will hell foolish atheist response this argument pascal wager flaws firstly not religion follow mutually exclusive and contradictory religions this described avoiding wrong hell problem person follower religion end religion version hell secondly statement that you god and turn incorrect you lost nothing not true suppose you believing wrong god true god punish you for your foolishness deaths that resulted people rejecting medicine favour prayer another flaw argument that based assumption that two possibilities equally likely that comparable likelihood fact possibility god close argument becomes persuasive sadly argument likely convince feel that for intellectually honest people belief based evidence amount intuition not matter will cost benefit analysis formally speaking argument consists statements not whether god exists not believing god bad for eternal soul god exist believing god consequence god not exist interest god two approaches argument view assumption and consequence problem this approach abstract that creates information information this considered invalid information theory statement information god statement that beneficial information can gained absolute lack information god this violates information entropy information extracted information cost alternative approach claim that and assumptions problem this that basically assumption states christian position and christian will agree that assumption argument collapses you christian your interests god vacuous tautology and not pascal intended argument viewed biggest reason pascal wager failure that god omniscient will believes and believes wager will spurn assuming cares whether people subject occam razor typical posting people talking occam razor response william occam formulated principle become occam razor original form not multiply entities unnecessarily that you can explain supposing existence entity nowadays people refer occam razor generally express generally for example simplest solution relevance atheism that can two explanations for incredibly intricate and complex universe into result natural processes incredibly intricate and complex universe and god created universe this god complexity that explanations fit facts occam razor suggest that simpler two solution number argue that even simple solution isn incredibly intricate and complex universe imagine that this option leads logically solipsism people find unacceptable subject good jesus typical posting want people virtues and benefits religion response preaching not appreciated feel free talk your religion not write postings that conversion theme such postings not belong alt atheism and will rejected alt atheism moderated newsgroup talk religion misc you doubtless not postings atheists your favourite newsgroup attempt convert you you you theists make basic claims god form lengthy analogies parables aware that atheists heard god and basic claims sole purpose your parable atheists that god exists and brings salvation you not post since tells nothing not told subject that god exists typical posting personal experience and prayer that god exists response theists personal evidence that worship exists atheists personal evidence that such beings not exist that evidence varies person person wishing dismiss your evidence hand people claimed kinds things that abducted ufos visited ghost elvis and subject einstein and god not play dice typical posting albert einstein believed god you you cleverer response einstein once comment that god not play dice universe this quotation commonly mentioned show that einstein believed christian god used this context refers einstein refusal accept uncertainties quantum theory einstein religious background jewish christian quotation showing einstein thought god spinoza god reveals orderly harmony exists not god concerns fates and actions human beings einstein unable accept quantum theory belief objective orderly reality reality not subject random events and not dependent observer believed that incomplete and that theory for statistical interpretations such theory found and evidence suggests that never will longer quote einstein appears science philosophy and religion symposium published conference science philosophy and religion relation democratic life inc york man imbued ordered regularity events firmer becomes conviction that room left side this ordered regularity for nature for rule human rule divine will exists independent natural events doctrine personal god interfering natural events never refuted italics real sense science for this doctrine can refuge domains scientific knowledge not set foot convinced that such behavior part representatives religion not unworthy fatal for doctrine maintain not clear light dark will necessity lose effect mankind incalculable harm human progress struggle for ethical good teachers religion stature give doctrine personal god that give that source fear and hope past such vast power hands priests labors will avail forces capable cultivating good true and beautiful humanity this difficult incomparably worthy task einstein lie you read religous convictions lie systematically repeated not personal god and never denied this expressed can called religious unbounded admiration for structure world science can reveal quote albert einstein human side edited helen dukas and banesh hoffman and published princeton university press book not immortality individual and ethics exclusively human concern superhuman authority fact that einstein chose not christianity not imply that christianity false subject worships typical posting worships whether money power god response that true polytheist theists care things that atheists care atheists reactions for example families amount worship theists subject causeless typical posting sets integers that lower bound each smallest member chains element causeless response set real numbers greater definite lower bound smallest member even true that causeless that not imply that that conscious supernatural entity and not that such entity match description favoured religion subject universe complex designed typical posting presence design universe proves god surely you don this appeared chance response this argument design matter dispute whether element design universe that complexity and diversity living creatures earth evidence creator advised read newsgroup talk origins for insufficient space summarize sides that debate conclusion that scientific evidence favour called scientific creationism evidence observation and theory that can explain complexities universe and life earth origin argument design feeling that existence incredibly intricate human improbable that surely can come chance that surely external intelligence directing things that humans come chaos deliberately human intelligence improbable surely existence mind capable fashioning entire universe complete conscious beings immeasurably approach used argue favour existence creator can turned and applied creationist position this leads familiar theme creator created universe created creator addition spiralling improbability declare that creator not created and wrong that universe introducing creator stephen hawking book history time explains theory that universe closed and finite extent beginning end argument design stated analogy called watchmaker argument asked imagine that found watch beach assume that created watchmaker that evolved naturally assumes watchmaker watch universe intricate and complex argument universe creator watchmaker analogy suffers flaws and common arguments design firstly watchmaker creates watches pre existing materials god claimed created universe nothing two sorts creation fundamentally and analogy weak secondly watchmaker makes watches things world walked beach and found nuclear reactor wouldn assume created watchmaker argument suggest multitude creators each responsible for part creation finally part watchmaker argument conclude that watch not part nature ordered and stands randomness nature second part argument start position that universe not random shows elements order watchmaker argument internally inconsistent subject independent evidence that bible true typical posting events testament confirmed independent documentary evidence for example response writings josephus mentioned independent documentary evidence early versions josephus work thought not mentioned jesus james extant version discusses john christian context scholars that original mentioned jesus and james passing that this expanded christian copyists reconstructions original text published this effect information appears ecclesiastical history eusebius worthless historical material deliberate falsification wily eusebius generally acknowledged dishonest historian antiquity eusebius generally title authorship for this material testament biographical information jesus documented for information consult frequently asked questions file for newsgroup soc religion christian subject godel incompleteness theorem typical posting godel incompleteness theorem demonstrates that impossible for bible true and complete response godel incompleteness theorem that consistent formal system sufficiently expressive that can model ordinary arithmetic can formulate expressions can never proven valid invalid true false that formal system technically speaking system recursive that decision procedure for determining whether string axiom formal system essentially such systems can formulate liar paradox classic liar paradox sentence ordinary english this sentence false note that proposition undecidable formal system cannot even deduce that undecidable logic used theological discussions rarely defined claims that godel incompleteness theorem demonstrates that impossible prove disprove existence god worthless isolation can trivially define formal system prove existence god simply existence god stated axiom this viewed atheists convincing proof succeed producing formal system built axioms that atheists and theists agree show that godel incompleteness theorem holds for that system that not demonstrate that impossible prove that god exists system wouldn whether prove existence god generally note that hypothetical formal systems nothing actual existence god formal systems abstractions another frequent claim that godel incompleteness theorem demonstrates that religious text bible book mormon cannot consistent and universally applicable religious texts not formal systems such claims nonsense subject george bush atheism and patriotism typical posting george bush that atheists not considered citizens response exchange place chicago airport robert sherman american atheist press and george bush august sherman fully accredited reporter and present invitation member press corps republican presidential nominee announce federal disaster relief for illinois discussion turned presidential primary will you win votes americans atheists guess pretty weak atheist community faith god important surely you recognize equal citizenship and patriotism americans atheists don that atheists considered citizens considered patriots this nation god you support sound constitutional principle separation state and church support separation church and state not high atheists upi reported that atheist organizations angry remarks exchange appeared boulder daily camera monday february can found free enquiry magazine fall issue volume number page october sherman had confrontation murnane cochairman bush quayle illinois campaign this concerned lawsuit sherman had filed stop community consolidated school district chicago illinois forcing grade atheist son pledge allegiance flag united states nation god bush phrase conversation place american atheists filed pledge allegiance lawsuit yesterday bush campaign official response this filing bullshit bullshit that american atheists rob bullshit you for telling official position bush campaign this issue you bush election american atheists wrote bush asking retract statement february boyden gray counsel president replied white house stationery that bush substantively stood original statement and wrote you aware president religious man supports atheism believes that atheism unnecessarily encouraged supported government for information contact american atheist veterans american atheist press cameron road address subject hell typical posting hell hell norway response towns called hell countries world including norway and usa whilst this information mildly amusing time hears readers alt atheism getting pretty fed hearing week subject biblical contradictions wanted typical posting list biblical contradictions response american atheist press publish atheist handbook detailing biblical contradictions accompanying posting atheist resources for details file containing biblical contradictions archive server mantis contacts file for information subject usa christian nation typical posting religious beliefs founding fathers shouldn united states considered christian nation response based writings important founding fathers clear that never intended christian nation quotes influence fact ecclesiastical establishments had society instances erect spiritual tyranny ruins civil authority instances upholding thrones political tyranny instance guardians liberties people rulers subvert public liberty found established clergy convenient auxiliaries government instituted secure and perpetuate not james madison memorial and remonstrance almost shudder thought alluding fatal example abuses grief history mankind preserved cross calamities that engine grief produced john adams letter thomas jefferson history furnishes example priest ridden people maintaining free civil government this marks lowest grade ignorance political religious leaders will avail for purpose thomas jefferson baron von humboldt cannot conceive that infinite father expects requires worship praise that even infinitely benjamin franklin articles belief and acts religion nov subject usa not christian nation typical posting true that george washington that united states not sense founded christian religion response quotation fact article treaty tripoli stat treaty series article government united states america not sense founded christian religion character enmity laws religion tranquility musselmen and states never entered into war act hostility mehomitan nation declared parties that pretext arising religious opinions produce interruption harmony existing two countries text found congressional record treaty collections such charles bevans treaties and international agreements united states america vol english text treaty tripoli approved senate june and ratified president john adams june recently discovered that arabic version treaty not lacks quotation lacks article altogether person translated arabic english joel barlow consul general algiers close friend thomas paine and opponent christianity that barlow made article since arabic version that article found hard treaty tripoli ratified longer contained quotation end faq digest
alt.atheism	alt atheism faq constructing logical argument archive name atheism logic alt atheism archive name logic last modified april version constructing logical argument argument usenet general quality argument found poor this article attempts provide gentle introduction logic hope improving general level debate logic science reasoning proof thinking inference concise oed logic analyze piece reasoning and determine whether correct not valid invalid not study logic order reason correctly nevertheless basic knowledge logic helpful constructing analyzing argument note that claim made whether logic universally applicable matter open for debate this document explains use logic that you decided that logic tool for job propositions statements building blocks logical argument proposition statement true false for example raining today tuesday propositions asserted true denied false note that this technical meaning deny not everyday meaning proposition meaning statement not arrangement words used express god exists and exists god express proposition argument quote monty python sketch connected series statements establish definite proposition argument consists stages propositions for argument continue stated called premises argument evidence reasons for accepting argument and conclusions premises assertions phrases such since and phrase viewed suspicion can used intimidate into accepting suspicious premises doesn obvious you don afraid question you can you obvious you heard explanation premises used derive propositions process inference inference proposition arrived basis propositions accepted forms valid inference propositions arrived inference used inference inference denoted phrases such implies that finally arrive conclusion argument proposition affirmed basis premises and inference conclusions phrases such follows that conclude and conclusion stated final stage inference for example event premise universe beginning premise beginnings involve event premise this implies that beginning universe involved event inference universe inference and conclusion note that conclusion argument premise another argument proposition can called premise conclusion respect argument terms not make sense isolation sometimes argument will not follow order for example conclusions stated and premises stated support conclusion this perfectly valid sometimes confusing recognizing argument harder recognizing premises conclusions people shower writing assertions producing describe argument statements arguments not for example bible accurate jesus insane evil liar son god this not argument conditional statement not assert premises support appears conclusion suffers number logical flaws come another example god created you your duty god phrase your duty god not proposition since true false not conclusion and sentence not argument finally causality important statement form interested establishing and offered evidence statement argument establish truth not argument explanation for example wrong engine car will not start this argument car will not start wrong engine this explanation two traditional types argument deductive and inductive deductive argument conclusive proof conclusions that argument premises true conclusion true deductive argument valid invalid valid argument defined premises true conclusion true inductive argument premises provide evidence for truth conclusion inductive arguments not valid invalid can talk whether worse arguments and probable premises forms argument ordinary language deductive inductive will concentrate for moment deductive arguments viewed rigorous and convincing important note that fact that deductive argument valid not imply that conclusion holds this slightly counter intuitive nature implication carefully valid argument can consist true propositions argument valid even contains false propositions for example insects wings premise woodlice insects premise woodlice wings conclusion conclusion not true argument premises false argument premises true conclusion true argument valid subtly can reach true conclusion false premises fish live sea premise dolphins fish premise dolphins live sea conclusion thing cannot reach false conclusion valid inference true premises can draw truth table for implication symbol denotes implication premise conclusion and represent true and false premise conclusion inference premises false and inference valid conclusion can true false premises true and conclusion false inference invalid premises true and inference valid conclusion true sound argument valid argument premises true sound argument arrives true conclusion careful not confuse valid arguments sound arguments delve into structure logical arguments require lengthy discussion linguistics and philosophy simpler and summarize major pitfalls avoided constructing argument pitfalls fallacies everyday english term fallacy used refer mistaken beliefs faulty reasoning that leads beliefs this fair logic term generally used refer form technically incorrect argument argument appears valid convincing for purposes this discussion define fallacy logical argument appears correct can incorrect examined closely studying fallacies aim avoid misled list fallacies not intended exhaustive argumentum baculum appeal force appeal force committed arguer resorts force threat force order and push acceptance conclusion used politicians and can summarized makes force threatened not direct threat arguer for example ample proof truth bible refuse accept that truth will burn hell argumentum hominem argumentum hominem literally argument directed man abusive variety argumentum hominem occurs disprove truth assertion arguer attacks person people making assertion this invalid truth assertion not depend goodness asserting for example atheism evil philosophy practised communists and murderers sometimes court law doubt cast testimony witness showing for example that perjurer this valid reducing credibility testimony witness and not argumentum hominem not demonstrate that witness testimony false conclude fall victim argumentum ignorantiam this list circumstantial form argumentum hominem committed person argues that opponent accept truth assertion opponent circumstances for example perfectly acceptable kill animals for food can you argue you quite happy wear leather shoes this abusive charge inconsistency used excuse for dismissing opponent argument this fallacy can used means rejecting conclusion for example you argue that positive discrimination bad thing you white this form argumentum hominem alleges that adversary rationalizing conclusion formed selfish interests poisoning argumentum ignorantium argumentum ignorantium means argument ignorance this fallacy occurs whenever argued that true simply not proved false equivalently argued that false not proved true note that this not assuming that false proved true basic scientific principle examples bible true can prove telepathy and psychic phenomena not exist shown proof that real note that this fallacy not apply court law generally assumed innocent proven guilty scientific investigation that event produce evidence occurred absence such evidence can validly used infer that event not occur for example flood described bible require enormous volume water present earth earth not tenth water even count that frozen into ice poles such flood occurred science can validly assume lack evidence that not occurred cannot conclude certainty that not occurred argumentum misericordiam this appeal pity special pleading fallacy committed arguer appeals pity for sake getting conclusion accepted for example not murder mother and father axe don find guilty suffering orphan argumentum populum this appealing gallery appealing people commit this fallacy attempt win acceptance assertion appealing large group people this form fallacy characterized emotive language for example pornography banned violence women bible true millions people that you that mistaken fools argumentum numeram this fallacy closely related argumentum populum consists asserting that people support proposition likely that that proposition correct argumentum verecundiam appeal authority admiration famous and win support for assertion for example isaac newton genius and believed god this line argument not completely bogus for example reference admitted authority field relevant discussion that subject for example can distinguish quite stephen hawking concluded that black holes give radiation and john searle concluded that impossible build intelligent computer hawking physicist and can expect opinions black hole radiation informed searle linguist questionable whether qualified speak subject machine intelligence fallacy accident fallacy accident committed general rule applied case accidental circumstances mean that rule inapplicable error made general specific for example christians generally dislike atheists you christian you dislike atheists this fallacy committed moralists and legalists decide moral and legal question mechanically applying general rules converse accident hasty generalization this fallacy reverse fallacy accident occurs forms general rule examining specific cases not representative cases for example jim bakker insincere christian christians insincere sweeping generalization dicto simpliciter sweeping generalization occurs general rule applied situation features that situation render rule inapplicable sweeping generalization opposite hasty generalization causa pro causa post hoc ergo propter hoc false fallacies fallacy causa pro causa occurs identifies event not shown for example aspirin and prayed god and headache disappeared god cured headache fallacy post hoc ergo propter hoc occurs assumed event happened event for example soviet union collapsed taking atheism avoid atheism for reasons cum hoc ergo propter hoc this fallacy similar post hoc ergo propter hoc asserts that two events occur together causally related and leaves room for factors that events petitio principii this fallacy occurs premises questionable conclusion reached circulus demonstrando this fallacy occurs assumes premise conclusion wishes reach proposition will rephrased that fallacy appears valid argument for example homosexuals not allowed hold government office government official revealed homosexual will lose job homosexuals will hide secret and will open blackmail homosexuals cannot allowed hold government office note that argument circular premise conclusion argument cited reason for british secret services official ban homosexual employees another example classic that god exists bible tells and that bible true word god complex question fallacy interrogation this fallacy presupposition example classic loaded question you stopped beating your wife question presupposes definite answer another question not even asked this trick used lawyers cross examination questions you hide money you stole similarly politicians loaded questions such long will this interference affairs allowed continue chancellor plan two years ruinous privatization ignoratio elenchi fallacy irrelevant conclusion consists claiming that argument supports conclusion logically nothing that conclusion for example christian begin that will argue that teachings christianity undoubtably true argues length that christianity great people matter argues will not shown that christian teachings true sadly such fallacious arguments successful arouse emotions view supposed conclusion favourable light equivocation equivocation occurs key word used two meanings argument for example affordable free software make that remains free that users can place license make that will freely redistributable amphiboly amphiboly occurs premises used argument ambiguous careless ungrammatical phrasing accent accent another form fallacy shifting meaning this case meaning changed altering parts statement emphasized for example not speak ill friends and not speak ill friends fallacies composition fallacy composition conclude that property shared parts apply for example bicycle made low mass components and lightweight fallacy composition conclude that property number individual items shared collection items for example car petrol and pollution bus cars environmentally damaging buses fallacy division fallacy division opposite fallacy composition opposite exists two varieties assume that property thing apply parts for example you studying rich college you rich assume that property collection items shared each item for example ants can destroy tree this ant can destroy tree slippery slope argument this argument states that event occur will harmful events proof made that harmful events caused event for example legalize marijuana legalize crack and heroin and nation full drug addicts welfare cannot legalize marijuana based fallacies type fallacies fallacies occur attempts argue that things similar similar examples isn history based faith isn bible form history islam based faith christianity based faith isn islam form christianity cats form animal based carbon chemistry dogs form animal based carbon chemistry aren dogs form cat affirmation consequent this fallacy argument form implies true true understand fallacy examine truth table for implication earlier denial antecedent this fallacy argument form implies false false truth table for implication makes clear this fallacy note that this fallacy causa pro causa form implies false false not fact imply problem not that implication invalid that falseness not deduce converting conditional this fallacy argument form argumentum antiquitam this fallacy asserting that good simply that argumentum novitam this opposite argumentum antiquitam fallacy asserting that correct simply newer argumentum crumenam fallacy believing that money criterion correctness that money likely argumentum lazarum fallacy assuming that poor sounder virtuous wealthier this fallacy opposite argumentum crumenam argumentum nauseam this incorrect belief that assertion likely true heard argumentum nauseum that employs constant repetition asserting bifurcation referred black and white fallacy bifurcation occurs presents situation two alternatives fact alternatives exist can exist plurium interrogationum questions this fallacy occurs questioner demands simple answer complex question sequitur sequitur argument conclusion drawn premises not logically connected red herring this fallacy committed irrelevant material introduced issue discussed that attention diverted points made conclusion reification hypostatization reification occurs abstract concept treated concrete thing shifting burden proof burden proof person making assertion proposition shifting burden proof special case argumentum ignorantium fallacy putting burden proof person denies questions assertion made source fallacy assumption that true proven straw man straw man fallacy misrepresent position that can attacked easily knock that misrepresented position conclude that original position demolished fallacy fails deal actual arguments that made extended analogy fallacy extended analogy occurs suggested general rule argued fallacy assume that mentioning two situations argument general rule constitutes claim that situations analogous each this fallacy explained real example debate anti cryptography legislation wrong oppose law breaking such position odious implies that you not supported martin luther king you that cryptography legislation important struggle for black liberation dare you quoque this famous you fallacy occurs action argued acceptable party performed for instance you randomly abusive you abusive
alt.atheism	alt atheism faq overview for readers archive name atheism overview alt atheism archive name overview last modified april version overview alt atheism and alt atheism moderated this series regular postings aimed readers newsgroups groups controversial nature noticed that readers come questions mis statements misconceptions and post net addition people request information posted time and time order and cut this alt atheism groups series regular postings titles alt atheism faq overview for readers alt atheism faq introduction atheism alt atheism faq frequently asked questions faq alt atheism faq constructing logical argument alt atheism faq atheist resources this article number read numbers and posting optional you usenet you find helpful read newsgroup news announce newusers articles titled primer work usenet community answers frequently asked questions usenet and hints writing style for usenet relevant questions news works asked news newusers questions you unable find articles listed finding stuff section below credits files not written assistance readers alt atheism and alt atheism moderated people kck cmu edu karl kluge perry dsinc jim perry netoprwa ncsuvm ncsu edu wayne aiken chpetk gdr bath toby kelsey jkp hut jyrki kuoppala geoff arnold east sun geoff arnold torkel sics torkel franzen kmldorf utdallas edu george kimeldorf roe quads uchicago edu greg roelofs arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee madhaus netcom maddi hausmann psuvm psu edu john johnson dgraham bmers bnr douglas graham mayne open fsu edu william mayne ajr bigbird hri andy rosen stoesser ira uka achim stoesser bosullvn unix tcd bryan sullivan lippard ccit arizona edu james lippard rigel tamu edu baum ydobyns phoenix princeton edu york dobyns schroede sdsc edu wayne schroeder baldwin csservera usna navy mil baldwin nibby unhh unh edu dana nibby dempsey kodak richard dempsey jmunch hertz elee calpoly edu john david munch pdc dcs paul crowley mips complang tuwien richard zach tycchow math mit edu tim chow simon dcs warwick simon clippingdale and countless forgotten articles free free you copy and distribute you send corrections author and not post copies articles alt atheism good multiple versions document floating network finding stuff faq files your news system suggestions you can find check newsgroup alt atheism for subject lines starting alt atheism faq check newsgroup news answers for subject lines you don find steps your news system isn set correctly and you your system administrator problem you anonymous ftp access connect rtfm mit edu directory pub usenet alt atheism and you find latest versions faq files ftp copying files networked computers you getting started ftp send mail mail server rtfm mit edu send usenet news answers ftp list faq body sites carry news answers postings article introduction news answers newsgroup carries list sites article posted regularly news answers you don ftp send mail mail server rtfm mit edu consisting lines send usenet news answers finding sources send usenet alt atheism faq send usenet alt atheism introduction send usenet alt atheism logic send usenet alt atheism resources penultimate resort send mail mail server mantis consisting lines send atheism faq faq txt send atheism faq logic txt send atheism faq intro txt send atheism faq resource txt and poor overworked modems will and send you copy files stuff interesting commands and send atheism index last resort mail mathew mantis post article newsgroup asking you can faq files you this you methods and failed not nice clutter newsgroup people mailboxes requests for files posting reading faq for instance people email addresses mangled transit and don ftp will assistance obtaining faq files mathew
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics date apr gmt bake timmons timmbake mcl ucsb edu bible lovers chill relax and atheism for funny pages material atheism denies existence god this logically bankrupt proof this nonexistence joke can sense atheism perhaps perhaps you made put your skateboard and read faq learn atheism you tangents
alt.atheism	you god court don question god courts mean request for solemnly swearing you god made request pick bible your left hand and hold your hand courts and testament hard imagine picking bible and swearing god sometimes religious influence court greensboro judge routinely courtroom stand join prayer beginning session thought sitting not terribly anxious spend days jail
alt.atheism	nicknames article apr zeus calpoly edu jmunch hertz elee calpoly edu john munch wrote mathew faq can remember last name keith lie tally sig ryan kent finn tastic sandvick cindy popsicle toes kandolf jim face sig tims simon clip that theist clippendale umar reasonable khan rob argue strom dave buckminster fuller maddi never post hausmann hey affectionate nickname for you wrongly spelled surname cheers kent sandvik sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons writes atheism denies existence god this logically bankrupt proof this nonexistence joke this favorite fallacious points atheism belief that you can deny that you can prove doesn exist this easily nailed showing that infinite number beings conceivable not observed exist this mean that poster objects beings that haven proved not exist stop god huge number beings identical ronald reagan for trivial differences missing finger blond hair and live planets can reason atheists bring this that christians vested interest unknown beings exception god fine people shoot foot and mock idea god classic atheist fallacy shoot foot radical muslims crusades inquisition common examples that atheists bring marks religion weak fools can that drivel grand daddy human atrocities stalinist movement twenty million people killed this leadership proudly featured atheism big difference stalin didn that stood for moral position murder and terrorism etc and opposite religious movements honest killer this not support stalin attack this viewpoint that atheism supports murder and violence man tyrant and atheist bad logic russians that helped stalin that weren atheists don contradict your point your point assumes that atheism relevant murdering people this common assumption that atheists can life theists you didn support agnostics not funny reasonable sense funny that existence god unknowable this bit assumption that atheism arrogant and pompous and another point you didn faq atheist doesn hold positive view that god doesn exist existence positive belief example strong atheism god not exist positive belief weak atheism don god negative belief not that never thought idea god life technically atheist not kind that you calling unreasonable this sets suppose that person huge set ideas that will represent capital letters and people that ideas exist real objects not santa person not believing santa idea santa notice that even another idea this means you lots cases christian god atheist strong atheist weak set agnostic indeterminate people afraid undecided another feature human nature undecided not sexy trendy glamorous word not inspire hate conflict not blasphemous not political fact mean unsophisticated nietzsche once that man will nonexistence not will darwinist put this that humanity prefers indecision not survival trait evolution drilled positions even false bake timmons iii
alt.atheism	christian morality vice ico tek bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes article jts news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes vice ico tek bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes atheism based ignorance ignorance existence god don fall into atheists don pride mistake you based ignorance couldn that wrong wrong fall into trap that you mentioned wrong god free time correct mistake that continues not supposedly proclaiming undying love for eternal soul speaks volumes volumes that speaks fact that leaves your choices you for trap you not position that don god not you can motivations you that earnestly searched for god for years and never found agree that presumptuous for side give psychological reasoning for another belief mac bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea michael cobb and won raise taxes middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu taxes and spending cuts billion dollar deficits
alt.atheism	koresh god mathew mathew mantis latest news that koresh will give once finished writing sequel bible article psilink robert knowles psilink writes writing seals lines written pages and handed assistant for proofreading expect decent messiah built spellchecker koresh will come heard had asked fbi provide word processor koresh requested that wordperfect written and owned mormons theological implications requesting refusing profound darin wilkins scubed scubed will president for food
alt.atheism	you will hell article pts psuvm psu edu pts psuvm psu edu writes pitt penn state controversy deleted bringing this back alt atheism relevance guy hell that isn sufficient bitch system operator worst bad etiquette you that account knowledge permission law patrick saxton pitt second rate school second rate city pts psuvm psu edu anon pts ecl psu edu atheism batman trust wouldn sufficient bitch system operator this guy that atheists hell point that recently messages posted that address each messages posted newsgroup apparent intent provoking readers that group this fact that posts written caps makes posts suspect this account irresponsibly intended user action possibility this reason report posts flavor that started this thread posts groups this user that action brendan
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics posted this wonderful parody people post reading faq laughing for good minutes parts faq that weren mentioned two don this wasn joke not ready hear that brendan
alt.atheism	morality constant biblical rape bill conner bil okcforum osrhe edu wrote couple things your post and this thread that confusing atheist for things can understood processes nature exclusively this definition not include atheists faq for invoke divine spiritual explanations makes big difference claim that things can understood natural processes and claim that observations not require postulate divine intervention spiritual for that matter humans not omnipotent and science science advantage theology doesn correcting nature judge delightful scientific inquiry revealing consistent simple picture universe science longer bunch separate branches particle physics psychology and aspect life universe safe stern and stony eye not even consciousness for recourse divnity describe explain purpose direction for event required physics chemistry biology etc random nothing determnined determinism indeterminism philosophical question and science cannot whether thing superdeterministic not question not meaning individual human beings apparent free will illusion not perspective bill can you for whether you free will not this include human intelligence and products nothing requiring that life evolve that acquire intelligence happy accident intelligence history earth species control biosphere this can result numerous happy accidents genetic machinery blindly replicates and preserves even that machinery can result principle systems that can start replicating will survive don don make recommended reading for atheist event can preferred another another naturalistic sense and thought event can perspective events and things subjectively perspective nature not values not perspective values arise awareness subjective perspective easy assume that people and position will eventually discover golden rule morality not necessarily gift heavens fact product evolution perhaps aware ourselves sense identity helpful play roles and make respect identity bill you read aristotle ethica nikomakhea for starters can atheist judge basis for criticizing values ennumerated bible purposes imputed god grounds can behavior reliogious condemned that judging values that motivate action you standard conduct measured nature can serve that purpose law nature can you invoke establish your values lewis tells that this argument main reason abandoned atheism and christian argument severely flawed values such golden rule can rational basis basic idea wanting live roots brains wired lewis real possiblity that natural selection favour altruistic behaviour and morality humans evolved and building and tools killing each logical necessity that evolution favour knew use tools not people bible reveals quite nicely that morality early jews not this simple set rules hold people together god god not care people nations time things quite jews rule empire and longer simply ignore gentiles situation required morality and religion born mutation meme pool since event and exclusively physical event difference possibly make religious can meaning gradation atheist can object behaviour admit that objection subjective and that doesn that judgement prefaced disclaimer that nothing matter personal opinion and carries weight absolute sense you haven bothered read philosophy whenever observer subjective point view existence and happiness even that result physical event and happiness observer comes absolutely objective sense that observers subjects moral judgments lose meaning not for simply exist point view this includes gods values personal judgments not absolute truths since such truths not exist fact that people not deliberately want hurt manifestation fought for existence social beings can and existence morality not property humans alone chimps dolphins and species show great care for each dolphins sometimes saved humans drowning good deed that you don god told people nothing god god commands that electrical event your nervous system that created emotional state that your mind coupled pre existing thought set form that reaction that your objections founded due you conditioned truth content your intellectual landscape illusion virtual reality last statement not logically follow fact reason thoughts can model reality and senses can convey reliable information solipsism logical possibility not likely you continuously mixing two views subjective point view share and objective point view not exist observer thinker personal point view not matter whether this point view result physical events not not cease subjective observers point view values not exist pain pleasure beauty love such things inherently subjective once god wives submit husbands even make leap faith into unknown punish don disagree morals not morals come supreme remove morals means make zombie machine single thought god gave morality judge disagree not fault free replace morals cannot point giving moral system disagrees and mad this god schizophrenic this you excluded discussion values wrong goood evil etc and cannot participate your opinion bible can weight whatsoever can opinion god for that matter cannot understand subjective opinion thing made matter credible opinion thing made bill note absolute values independent including gods god subjective viewpoint point view and morals petri petri pihko kem pmp mathematics truth pihatie finou oulu physics rule oulu kempmp game finland phoenix oulu chemistry game
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article vice ico tek bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes article vice ico tek bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes refuting nothing simply telling you childish propaganda and nothing refuted bcci not islamic bank this post nothing islamic banks tiring this infantile garbage simply evaluated such you flesh bit miss full grandeur content virtue blinding atheism you difficulty light you your head your ass suggest making this not case posting time for your lesson debate gregg yeah begin included text vice news tek uunet psinntp wrldlnk usenet sun apr pdt noticed post this topic soc religion islam and since topic bcci not islamic bank come left mention bcci bank called bcci adapted koran rules banking this bibliography bennett neil bcci adapted koran rules banking times august guy writes piece title that implies case that this you support position you intend respect gregg questions and even managed include reference head firmly engaged ass your excuse this supports nothing reason that this piece another anti islamic slander job respect for titles for real content can this article want true can you bcci not islamic bank spending time responding propaganda responding this sub thread don feel deep make statements effect that propaganda false discuss issue glad real discussion providing references etc gregg
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons writes rule don mix apples oranges can you that extermination mongols worse stalin khan conquered people unsympathetic that atrocious stalin killed millions people loved and worshipped and atheist state can worse that you and david koresh claimed christian
alt.atheism	thoughts bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes niether lunatic entire nation drawn crazy find encyclopedia volume hitler adolf had people germans enamoured moorcockpratchettdenislearydelasoulu iainmbanksneworderheathersbatmanpjorourke clive come retract foreskin misconception james trinity college dublin and apply wire brush enlightenment geoffm brownbladerunnersugarcubeselectronicblaylockpowersspikeleekatebushhamcornpizza
alt.atheism	pope jewish west cville wam umd edu stilgar writes pope jewish guess and thought that thing head fancy hat not jewish headpiece don remember name clear clear mud that headpiece chort crl nmsu edu source newswire vatican home genetic misfits michael gillow noted geneticist revealed unusual data working undercover vatican for past years popehat advanced bone spur reveals gillow groundshaking report gillow had secretly studied innermost workings vatican since returning vietnam wheel chair approached scientific community theory late hat thing that cover vatican didn want catholic community realize leader hefting kilograms extraneous bone tissue top skull notes gillow report laboratories vatican that experiment tissue transplants and bone marrow experiments started genetic fluke mid scientifically engineered and bred for bone transplant idea started mid sixties inspired doctor timothy leary transplanting deer bone cells into small white rats gillow quick point assassination attempt pope john paul and disappearance leary public eye becomes time replace pope gillow pope and replacement pope locked padded chamber butt heads male yaks fighting for dominance herd victor emerges and earned privilege inseminating choir boys moorcockpratchettdenislearydelasoulu iainmbanksneworderheathersbatmanpjorourke clive come retract foreskin misconception james trinity college dublin and apply wire brush enlightenment geoffm brownbladerunnersugarcubeselectronicblaylockpowersspikeleekatebushhamcornpizza
alt.atheism	free moral agency and jeff clark article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes deletion you millions suffer for adam and pretty sick creating universe gonna respond giving small theology lesson forgive used theology major that this planet involved cosmic struggle great controversy betweed christ and satan borrowed book title god interests entire universe making decisions deletion universe created can you tyrannic creatures likes your definitions your god created satan full knowledge happen including choice satan can you explain free will and omniscience didn your god that happen even created world concerned tyrant care fine for that idea comes possibility abuse power your god introduced your description you that you read faq part preaching benedikt
alt.atheism	pope jewish article apr wam umd edu west cville wam umd edu stilgar writes last night watching rebroadcast jerry springer talk show heard this jewel thought year racist focus this show kids and hatred for jewish religion and stuff deleted interesting and scary jews had killed god and end time that races homelands remain america jeruselem gen another kid rest races home and great battle plague revel happen and jews killed interesting thing this that roomate catholic and had kjv bible desk immediatly opened and began search for quoted passages gen rev and john for and couldn find don this show back and heard kids quote bible justify racist claims looked that quote jesus hating jews since jesus jew curiousity had piqued such claim jist passage and can recall passage exactly that jesus condemning pharisees for corrupt pharisees jewish wasn jews that jesus condemning powers that nancy connor psychology undergrad opinions express simon fraser university burnaby canada
alt.atheism	silly question tianity werdna cco caltech edu andrew tong writes mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes question this attitude god character egotistical and proud christianity tells people humble deal god pretty egotistical and proud mean created you doesn proud such job people don proud accomplished that can match god accomplishments abilities compare god imbecile worm earth quote pascal grumblegrumble you god and you created universe wouldn you irked organizing cell globules tiny planet started thinking great and awesome you logic falls apart quick perfect insulted threatened actions lesser creature offspring shuold powerful perfect feel proud offended capable aware relationship aspect particle universe moment time simultaneously understand action cell globule each tniy planet that kinda odd that god care earth bad example amazing fact that care apparently and that willing make grand sacrifices ensure happiness powerful owner universe makes great sacrifices makes great headline doesn make sense sacrifice that couldn back gave give chris you guys fun agoin key west
alt.atheism	don beleive you article apr antioc antioch edu smauldin antioc antioch edu writes stopped believing you long invention technology god ahhh back alt autotheism you belong brian
alt.atheism	genocide caused theism evidence article qid fct horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes don special theism general that makes hazard stupidity anarchy patriotism depends religion nothing believing gods that and entails even promotes xenophobia genocide etc emphasis general you correct since you haven restrict observations practiced religions lots examples god mandated genocide canaanites point that you god and you ordered you eliminate entire race you will likely make attempt past surely present bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	free moral agency and jeff clark article sandvik sandvik kent apple sandvik newton apple kent sandvik writes this reason controversy post modernism issues polarities evil and good artificial constructs and fall apart closer inspection into notion constant struggle evil and good forces sounds metaphor that people assume closer inspection info not exposed ideas bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	political atheists article apr news wesleyan edu ssauyet eagle wesleyan edu scott sauyet writes qabe innaff gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu writes chimpanzees fight wars land chimps almost human keith this last message schneider and days final words and find that that finals christians leary atheist spokesman clandestine and that had removed keith busy explaining fellow captives isn persecuted since feeding and resistance part viewed trouble making understand make bit fuss tatooed god trust forehead bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	member article hiew portal videocart dfuller portal videocart dave fuller writes started reading this group today and large participant daily postings liked section faq constructing logical arguments atheist not turn people into atheists figure people don care view comes wrong willing admit possibility religious followers dont capability aboard notice alot posts bobby respond posts falls back argument you answered your question religion will bad event explained human name religion not mean that religion will point ideal and that wasn can reason for event argue bother you upset answer blind and not supported factually will win time argument don will postings direct response responses postings that spouted fact that atheists fools evil for not peachy islam leave pro con arguments islam fred rice level headed and subject happy aboard you you abord dave fuller dfuller portal videocart brian
alt.atheism	free moral agency article house helios house helios usq edu ron house writes marshall csugrad edu kevin marshall writes healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes you yeah didn god destroy bud point millions ages suffering life answer that satan made claim that god god allowing satan chance prove that god that brought come god allowing wishes individual supercede billions doubt read bible twice never impression that god and satan working sort cooperative arrangement read book job that bet brian
alt.atheism	thoughts sold sign brian book charles manson lord lunatic liar
alt.atheism	thoughts bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes reasons wouldn liar follows die for lie wouldn people liar people gathered and gathered hearing had healed call fool heal people dies for runs risk dying for lie for people liar had grifters and charlatans since beginning civilization david copperfield had messiah bet found plenty believers jesus claim faith healer and wasn witnessed sets apart niether lunatic entire nation drawn crazy doubtful fact rediculous for example drawn david koresh fool logical people this rubbish nations crazies liars psychopaths and megalomaniacs history hitler tojo mussolini khomeini qadaffi stalin papa doc and nixon come mind this century koresh issue since wasn liar lunatic real thing discrete mathematics formal logic flaws your logic and will you read faq things note fulfilled loads prophecies psalms isaiah and hrs alone this betrayal and crucifixion don bible this moment time write will use you bible written bible not mean true and age that tome lack external supporting evidence makes credible you quote bible future back that quote supporting evidence you will flamed mercilessly don people understand christian not lot churches life and total sacrafice for god sake loved die and save hey can god inspires turn lives that tuff and people don want real christian for strong persevere weight lifting guitar playing drums takes time don rush day christianity your life not church once week helping poor people once box into time units such work this time sports social life god boxes and carried into boxes that created for ourselves weight lifting guitar playing don you define world total imagine total sacrafice for god sake involve time commitment you correct tendency box into time units you explain involove god sports and hehehe television kevin marshall computer science department virginia tech marshall csugrad edu blacksburg virginia
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes wait you that humans rarely reasonable doesn that contradict atheism explained logic and reason this contradiction atheism that proves false bobby mozumder proving existence allah bobby post don men women islamic countries atheists killing female children personal favorite sami aario can you measure atom you can explode tut sunlight comprised atoms your stupid minds stupid stupid eros plan outer space disclaimer don agree eros
alt.atheism	thoughts you read faqs read faqs you wouldn posted such drivel lord liar lunatic argument false trilemma even you disprove liar and lunatic you haven you not eliminated possibilities such mistaken misdirected misunderstood you arbitrarily set and possibilities read good book rhetoric and critical thinking you lord liar lunatic discussion example good argument you learning read faqs constructing logical argument ignore instructions your peril disobeying leaves you open for righteous flaming maddi hausmann madhaus netcom centigram communications corp san jose california kids don this home remember post professionally
alt.atheism	slavery sex allowed marriage this sounds nice helping each and smiling and fluffy bunnies wake people not that evident history that society succeeded had rely goodwill and unselfishness people isn obvious places iran that even greedy people society attracted positions power sounds recipe for disaster historical evidence such perfect utopian islamic states didn survive agree people people and even you start islamic revolution and create this perfect state takes time and internal corruption will destroy ground rules cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	slavery sex allowed marriage article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice wrote basis apparent success islamic banks that statement that interest economy cannot survive today world bit premature intested economical systems survive small scale ops not islamic invention and operatives working world such systems don stand corruption large scale operation nothing handle human greed imho not even allah cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	member article hiew portal videocart dfuller portal videocart dave fuller wrote event explained human name religion not mean that religion will point ideal and that wasn can reason for event argue bother you upset answer blind and not supported factually will win time argument don will postings direct response hey glad and constructive contributors this newsgroup agree statement you argue bobby for eons and not thing spare your mental resources discuss interesting issues cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism article qjfnv ogt horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer wrote term hero worship mean you worshipping jesus super saver hero worshipping grand scale worshipping lenin that will make life pleasant for working people similar understand that gods defined supernatural not superhuman notion lenin borderline supernatural insights into change world wasn communist god man gave presents kids christmas agree things relative and you can direct mapping movement and notion that communist russia somewhat typical atheist country that robertson tilton rest atheists not true unbelievers huh don fanatics cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	thoughts article bissda saturn wwc edu bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell wrote want start and that christian makes sense you read tony campollo book liar lunatic real thing title writes book part effort destroy christianity process christian didn understand realities liar lunatic real thing narrow view possibilities jesus message sigh religion makes your mind brain filter that not fit into your personal scheme that thinks possibilities jesus bound classical lewis notion liar lunatic saint bound become christian cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism article qjf horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes article qimbe fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes article qif horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes article qialf fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes forget origin quote gotta use words talk you atheist lacks belief gods plausible that atheist dig lenin lennon such extent that considered worship and atheist newspeak question you regard ardent nazi republican simply germany longer had kaiser that based false dichotomy options you present and that point you can simply divide world into atheists and atheists basis god belief you care belief supernatural deity and nothing behaviour belief supernatural your criterion once you start talking behaviour suscept ibility led bad people into bad things you assume worried and that area you care whether sceptical critical and autonomous hand gullible excitable and easily led that tendency worship tyrants and ideologies that person easily led whether worship belief supernatural hero earthly beside point jon
alt.atheism	thoughts article edm apr gocart twisto compaq edm twisto compaq mccreary writes thu apr gmt bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell dlb want start and that christian dlb makes sense you read tony campollo book liar dlb lunatic real thing title dlb writes book part effort destroy christianity dlb process christian friendly folks christian central come save you
alt.atheism	islamic genocide article qjipo pen horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes article qinmd fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes rate even your interpretation correct this not imply that killings religously motivated original poster claim tricky tricky replying your blanket claim that not religiously motivated aren irish catholics south not kill irish protestants south precisely history killings religously motivated ignore obvious matter british occupation partition and misguided patriotism sides false dichotomy you claimed killing not religiously motivated and that wrong not that each and killing religiously motivate spelled detail problems fault religious divide historical roots this thing catholic country partitioned and populated protestant grotesque killing soldiers and civilians supposedly motivated patriotism civil rights issues and revenge difficult understand insofaras insanity hard understand religion not invoked explain contradiction this paragraph claim that killings not religously motivated grotesque that means that church and believers history can face rewrite you attacking claim claim that ira terrorist plants bomb warrington not motive greater glory god frank put quotes your words your posting horus mchp sni don that claim you can longer stand your original claim jon
alt.atheism	don beleive you article apr antioc antioch edu smauldin antioc antioch edu writes stopped believing you long invention technology god don listen this guy crank this business true god tolerated rest completely hand isn bad people stop believing you relaxing mortals aren begging you for favors zeus
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes state that that green marble closed box never evidence for existance guilty deceit even fact green marble inside question whether not green marble inside irrelevent you ahead and play your marbles love love love fit that into sig file keeping list bobby quotes include this stating unproven opinion fact deceit and knowingly decietful falsehood and lie you unproven opinion fact you opinion you not accept flat earthers state that earth flat fact don accept this unproven opinion and round earthers evidence flat earthers can prove that god doesn exist arguments used support god existence weak and contradictory and not god comes and reason god that absolutely can ignore ago read interesting book fellow called von daenicken proved wildest things and last page wrote can you prove isn can not based proof questionable stuff such myths called circumstancial evidence atheism hasn made kill and regarded quite agreeable fellow sami aario can you measure atom you can explode tut sunlight comprised atoms your stupid minds stupid stupid eros plan outer space disclaimer don agree eros
alt.atheism	islamic authority sic women kmr cwru edu keith ryan kmr cwru edu rush leland stanford edu apr leland stanford edu readers joined this guy for real simply amazed sadly don loose sleep zlumber fun basically harmless you don work city don find hard that ole zlumber believes hate and ignorant prattle writes frightening thought people even worse that feminism equals superiority men laughable long doesn proceed pick rifle and start shoot women preemptive strike aka canada slaughter that occured years ago men killing women nothing islamic fundamentalists excuse ran vancouver sun thursday october john davidson canadian press montreal perhaps letter year daughter that shocks hope day you will understand happened your parents wrote patrick prevost loved your mother passion that hatred police found piece paper prevost body apartment northeast montreal year mechanic committed suicide killing wife jocelyne parent couple had separated for month and woman had apartment talk getting money for food violent quarrel broke and prevost attacked wife kitchen knife cutting throat police latest women slain husband lover quebec last weeks children slain result domestic battles last year quebec alone women slain husbands that such cases across canada statistics canadian centre for justice rest article ommited that women stay home and raise child laughable women traditionally hard labor support family men cultures history takes two adults raise child and that stay home maximus
alt.atheism	feminism and islam article apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes article apr eagle wesleyan edu kmagnacca eagle wesleyan edu writes that hadith state that silence mean and that women not speak judge conduct marriage actaully that false hadith contradicts verses quran that women testify speak judge hadiths declared false contradict quran hadiths weren written revelation life prophet and errors you can false hadith true contradicts quran relates that isn explicitly spelled quran quran wasn written life muhammed wasn long years long shift verses karl lastly come china hope you touch and you fulfilling lifelong ambition your life will dropping acid great wall duke pink floyd lie lie even billion people
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality article apr abo mandtbacka finabo abo mats andtbacka writes qie fkt horus mchp sni frank writes article ursa bear halat pooh bears jim halat writes people not word objective means put word morality assume idiom and cannot defined separate terms give objective morality morality built objective values and objective values specific and importantly motivate wild guess and freedom objectively valuable base this assumption that world deprived utterly freedom that act contrary volition almost want complain that assert that freedom not valuable almost can that bit absurd assert not raining rainy day this candidate for objective and condition for objective morality that objective values such this exist frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie anecdote islam article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes article nrl navy mil khan itd itd nrl navy mil umar khan writes borrowed book library khomeini fatwa etc found this passage legitimacy fatwa common knowledge prescribed islamic law that sentence applicable jurisdiction islamic law applies sentence passed islamic court and executed state machinery due process law even islamic countries alone muslim lands individuals cannot law into hands sentence passed carried state usual machinery and not individuals becomes criminal act law into hands and punish offender process defence offender brought notice court and court shoud decide deal this law applies equally muslim muslim territories agree fully statement and precisely meant previous statements islam not anarchist and law not enforcible despite law applicable such clarification ulama islamic scholars muslims britain and imam khomeini fatwa made clear that since islamic law not applicable britain hadd compulsory punishment cannot applied disagree this conclusion applicability islamic law muslims wherever conclusion not strictly follow foregoing conclusion that fatwa cannot enforced islamic law agree that punishment cannot applied rushdie even founded wow that islamic viewpoint khomeini fatwa constitutes criminal act perhaps even limb and call khomeini criminal this basis putting price head rushdie britain criminal act islamic law understood knowledgeable muslims that khomeini fatwa islamically illegitimate basis expounded such and posted umar khan and gregg jaeger and that even punishment constituted fatwa islamic law understanding gregg
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice wrote understanding that generally agreed ulema islamic scholars that islamic law applies islamic country not law into hands criminal act matters for state not for individuals nevertheless khomeini offered cash prize for people law into hands understanding islamic law this understanding majority islamic laws legal rulings schools law sunni and jaffari can levelled muslim muslims and dar islam not apostasy accompanied active persistent and open hostility islam falls into this category law that historically apostasy rarely punished alone death penalty understanding that khomeini ruling not based law apostasy alone that rushdie apostate long wrote offending and precedent qur hadith islamic history for indiscriminantly levelling death penalties for apostasy charge levelled rushdie that fasad this ruling applies and domain islamic state and can carried individuals reward not offered khomeini individuals iran stuff deleted you muddying issue you assume that khomeini fatwa issued due distribution book understanding that khomeini fatwa issued response writing and publishing book view correct your viewpoint that rushdie sentenced for crime progress incorrect concur that thrust fatwa remember levelled author and assisted publication book charge fasad can encompass number lesser charges remember that diplomatic relations broke britain and iran fatwa iran stressed that condemnation author and removal book circulation two preliminary conditions for resolving crisis you correct point that banning book not main thrust fatwa islamic charges such fasad levelled people not books rushdie situation iran for months issuance fatwa rushdie media blitz presenting lone knight guarding sacred values secular democracy and mocking foolish concerns people crazy hold religious beliefs sacred fanning flames and milking controversy boost image and push book media muslim demonstrators countries killed protesting book rushdie appeared momentarily concerned climbed back media horse once attack muslims and defend sacred rights this point that fatwa fasad issued fatwa levelled person rushdie actions rushdie that feed situation contribute legitimization ruling book remains circulation not independant will will author and publishers fatwa person rushdie encompasses actions crime crime progress levels and played and played full view media not this charge shatim applies rushdie and encompassed umbrella fasad ruling
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law twelve imams considered incapable error sin khomeini supports this view twelve imans this heresy for reasons gave happy discuss issue imams you preference move discussion another newsgroup feel philosophy religion group topic deeply embedded world view islam and esoteric teachings prophet heresy not enter into for islam exoteric religion that nominally concerned metaphysical substance man and nature good introductory book fact introductory books islam general murtaza mutahhari fundamental islamic thought god man and universe mizan press translated campbell beautiful book follow book you can find decent translation wilaya station master author title master and mastership small book transcription lecture author introduction beautiful psalms islam translated william chittick muhammadi trust great britain excellent introduction subject books university library imagine stocked university library will your posts you fairly versed sunni thought you seek shi ite thought knowledgeable shi ite authors that respect due charge heresy levelled salaam laikum
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism article qif horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes article qialf fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes article egl horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes stuff deleted newsgroup large this for deal recognise that happened communist russia bearing validity atheism doings sundry theists validity theism that zip nada fallacy hominem and holy faq book constructing logical argument apart not making lot sense this wrong atheist creed that taught communist name atheism theistic creeds and instructions act for theists madly conflict another that another issue lack instructions act evil that that since mathematics includes instructions act evil atheism not moral system speak instructions act atheism simply lack belief god plenty theists argue case for atheism didn ussr validity theism genocide that validity argument that theist system genocide can made convincingly argument that atheism genocide this theist systems instructions act and can shown genocide since atheist set instructions null set can you show that atheism genocide david choweller davec silicon csci csusb edu scores thousands human insects ready moment notice reveal will god subject george bernard shaw scores thousands human insects ready moment notice reveal will god subject george bernard shaw
alt.atheism	nonexistance atheists article bskendigc jcwx jzn netcom bskendig netcom brian kendig writes quotes deleted people idea means atheist bobby mozumder clones world thought that explains things posted soc religion islam attached quote bobby effect that atheists lying evil scum and asked commonly held idea muslims response asking unknown guess karl lastly come china hope you touch and you fulfilling lifelong ambition your life will dropping acid great wall duke pink floyd lie lie even billion people
alt.atheism	thoughts article bissda saturn wwc edu bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes appears that walla walla college will fill role alt atheist that allegheny college fills alt fan dan quayle want start and that christian makes sense you read tony campollo book liar lunatic real thing title writes book part effort destroy christianity process christian converts xtianity this tendency excessively darken pre xtian past frequently falsely embarks effort destroy xtianity suffering deep megalomania defect not cured religious conversion arguements summing book whether jesus god not you don listen perspective for gain listening perspective perspective bwahahahahahahahah book that jesus liar crazy modern day koresh sigh perhaps big mistaken claims perhaps insightful had days perhaps statements attributed jesus not made put into mouth authors possibilities abound surely examining this question come decent list alternatives task not examination question destroying xtianity religious salesmanship reasons wouldn liar follows die for lie germans died for nazism russians died name proletarian dictatorship americans died make world safe for democracy silly question wouldn people liar people gathered and gathered hearing had healed call fool heal people performs healing god niether lunatic entire nation drawn crazy hard draw entire nation you you crazy doubtful fact rediculous for example drawn david koresh fool logical people this since wasn liar lunatic real thing convinced this laughable logic deserves xtian things note fulfilled loads prophecies psalms isaiah and hrs alone this betrayal and crucifixion don bible this moment time write will use don bother prophecies fulfilled eyes xtian apologists distort meaning isaiah and books
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism deletions apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes don you can imagine infinite infinity mathematical concept created humans explain things don applies reality don world infinite wouldn comprehend reality for programmer that require infinite memory reality continuous and based infinietely small units units you don universe continuous continuum another mathematical concept based infinity used explain things humans not infinite call numbers call endless not pretty good idea infinity man made concept and man made concepts evolved time ancient greeks had understanding can call allah infinitely powerful knowledgeable etc cannot imagine allah cannot imagine infinite precicely don even infinity applies reality sami aario can you measure atom you can explode tut sunlight comprised atoms your stupid minds stupid stupid eros plan outer space disclaimer don agree eros
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes article fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes you amazed that find difficult grasp people justify death threats rushdie claim born muslim this empty rhetoric amazed your inability understand not that you find difficult grasp people justify death threats find amazing that your ability abstract questions isolation you falsity principles consequence abuse you hate physics you closer you imagine despised living soviet regime purported organize society fondly imagined objective conclusions marxist dialectic don hate physics long clown doesn start control life assumption that interchangeable atoms individual human beings jon
alt.atheism	satanic article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes jeff west writes you claimed that people that time translate bible time couple generations you ample proof agreed that versions step modern translations that people time copy text correctly translations present completely issues read papers that qumram texts had versions texts misunderstand jon
alt.atheism	note bobby apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes insults atheistic genocide totally unintentional atheism can happen good bad including genocide and you this you conveniently defined theist can wrong and you defined people wrong atheists statement circular not mention bigoting and such sami aario can you measure atom you can explode tut sunlight comprised atoms your stupid minds stupid stupid eros plan outer space disclaimer don agree eros
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie anecdote islam article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice wrote article nrl navy mil khan itd itd nrl navy mil umar khan writes stuff deleted demanding for khomeini and ilk publicly come clean and show proof that islamic law punishes apostacy death that tolerates similar form coversion freedom conscience schools law knowledge support death sentence for apostasy accompanied open persistent and aggravated hostility islam agree legal support for punishment disbelief qur makes clear that belief matter conscience public private disavowal islam conversion another faith not punishable jurists this trend and insisted that apostasy punishable even death historically exception cursing and insulting prophets falls category shatim borrowed book library khomeini fatwa etc lots stuff deleted and analysis khomeini offering reward for rushdie death fact constitutes criminal act islamic law post rushdie islamic law
alt.atheism	slavery sex allowed marriage article sandvik sandvik kent apple sandvik newton apple kent sandvik writes historical evidence such perfect utopian islamic states didn survive agree people people and even you start islamic revolution and create this perfect state takes time and internal corruption will destroy ground rules nothing perfect nothing perpetual even perfect isn stay that forever perpetual machines cannot exist thought that laws mechanics thermodynamics stating that not atheist naren bala software evaluation engineer home work standard disclaimers apply
alt.atheism	political atheists article apr news wesleyan edu ssauyet eagle wesleyan edu scott sauyet final words and find that that finals your fingers crossed fingers crossed doubt martin schulte
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality article qkq horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes wild guess and freedom objectively valuable base this assumption that world deprived utterly freedom that act contrary volition almost want complain that assert that freedom not valuable almost can that bit absurd assert not raining rainy day this candidate for objective and condition for objective morality that objective values such this exist personal and highly subjective opinion that freedom good thing people assert that true freedom words this and that messiah realise that people don even agree meaning word mean that word represents objective word objective meaning jon
alt.atheism	 article innf senator bedfellow mit edu tcbruno athena mit edu tom bruno writes wow leave your terminal for months and you remember depressing familiar faces counting bob and kent don recognize heard graham matthews recently degree and sailed for greener pastures brings point posting people alt atheism since damnedest stay top newsgroup you fall you fall not bad rec arts startrek used digress deluge inquiring minds want track infamous posters alt atheism end once leave newsgroup curious guess cheers tom bruno people willl unlimited stores unfounded respect for people newsgroups mailing lists longer you sympathy tom semi regularly posting toughto since this february reading and threads since last august school newsreader for months and incompetent computing services never bothered find feed site wasn accepting outgoing postings don track posters that love and leave internet for you regards adam john cooper verily laughed weaklings thought good simply acooper macalstr edu had claws
alt.atheism	thoughts article bissda saturn wwc edu bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes want start and that christian that rest come makes sense you read tony campollo book liar lunatic real thing title writes book part effort destroy christianity process christian this isn guy lawyer you give info this guy never mind will plenty responses this post and will arguements summing book whether jesus god not you don listen perspective for gain listening this true make true for cases book that jesus liar crazy not modern day koresh reasons wouldn liar follows die for lie wouldn people liar not die for lie you poverty stricken and alunatic sounds perfecetly reasoable whether societal dregs had for followers liar not not necessarily even died for believed this makes completely selfish difference people gathered and gathered hearing had healed call fool heal people historical proof this earlier threads name deaths make for healing gave niether lunatic entire nation drawn crazy sieg heil doubtful fact rediculous for example drawn david koresh fool logical people this david koresh curious since wasn liar lunatic real thing this follow your definition lunatic and disproof thereof uhhh shaky things note fulfilled loads prophecies psalms isaiah and hrs alone this betrayal and crucifixion don bible this moment time write will use good idea don people understand christian not lot churches naturally not true christians life and total sacrafice for god sake loved die and save hey can god inspires turn lives that tuff and people don want real christian for strong persevere weight lifting guitar playing drums takes time don rush day christianity your life not church once week helping poor people once box into time units such work this time sports social life god boxes and carried into boxes that created for ourselves handle this don worth sigh adam john cooper verily laughed weaklings thought good simply acooper macalstr edu had claws
alt.atheism	thoughts christians article apr nuscc nus cmtan iss nus tan chade meng dan writes sandvik newton apple kent sandvik writes article cva uxa ecn bgu edu gsu uxa ecn bgu edu eric molas wrote christianity infectious cult reasons flourishes people hope driven purpose life safety blanked hide wow follow this christian moral standard and eternal happiness agree that cases primitive emotional feelings based haha you won laugh hell mentalities makes religions attractive for personalities agree make small point xtianity dogmatic religions not attract people hope etc attract average people that xtainity escapist doctrines absolutist attitudes great psychological shelter day day frustrations unhappiness fear uncertainty unknown etc this good point average people not christianity fear escapism quite simply improve social life involved american culture kids immigrants for example since overwhelming major religion western world form simply choice people bored and want lives not somethong ordinary weak long doesn hurt buddha had attractiveness religions driven fear man worships sacred mountains sacred stones and sacred trees buddha finds peace religion good quotes and agree make alter scond that includes long not preventing finding peace that suppose peace for inflicting evangelism personally feel that since religion such poweful psychological effect theists problem that religions enormous harm believers and humanity holy wars inquisitions inter religious hatred impedence science intellectual progress attitudes etc etc don can comments thing will live lives popularity come and remember entered high school atheist had and friends this time converted christianity immigrants taiwan sons immigrants earlier gross generalization christianity lot popular people since noticing perceptions that chagning for perfectly willing live and live long set abstract rights agreements treat each desire hurt notions for put arguments this usenet never good argumentation not apply christians even atheists simply step person takes naturally almost instinctively regards adam john cooper verily laughed weaklings thought good simply acooper macalstr edu had claws unenlightened buddhism characteristics tan chade meng expected cosmic religion for future singapore transcends personal god avoids dogmas and theology cmtan iss nus covers natural spiritual and based religious sense aspiring experience things natural and spiritual meaningful unity einstein
alt.atheism	 your posting provoked into checking save file for memorable posts captured ken arromdee feb subject atheist that article your question article average articles day for last years noted current posting rate such that kill file depressing large posting saved early days articles notables loren sunlight llnl gov loren petrich jchrist nazareth israel rel jesus christ nazareth mrc tomobiki cho cac washington edu mark crispin perry apollo jim perry lippard uavax ccit arizona edu james lippard minsky media mit edu marvin minsky interesting bunch geoff arnold nfs architect sun select geoff arnold east sun made thing great lie guys two thousand years ago wine tear garden
alt.atheism	political atheists kcochran nyx edu keith justified and ancient cochran writes that you confusing words objective and inherent and objective system simply observer postulates system perfectly judge situation action consistent system not wrong you objecting goals system not inherent that you want define objective system postulates determined observer don that this good definition objective system you learn english gravity objective system can learn and perform experiments will results person performed experiments gravity inherent system you don excess information observations determine objectively determine guilt innocence inherent system agree that morality not necessarily inherent you state that evolutionary basis this not mean that cannot objective theory this natural morality not objective system evidenced your comments lions and mine perhaps can objective not inherent noted practices related mating rituals etc animals likely considered immoral previous definitions natural law revisions order since class activities surrounding mating pose general problems and fact that postulates determined outsider sort higher truth sort god not that god for objective system that you you seens that you objecting notion objective system perhaps you that imply inherence necessitate sort grand design classified behavior animals line moral system for animals commit acts rules ethics don perhaps not intelligent immoral and perhaps you define moral system code ethics basically defines undesired behaviors etc immoral behavior unwanted unproductive destructive etc depending goal system that immoral end keith
alt.atheism	political atheists kcochran nyx edu keith justified and ancient cochran writes natural morality specifically thought code ethics that species developed order survive wait talking ethics morals distinction important this countless times animal kingdom and such natural system basis for system huh moral system mimic natural number ways order for humans thrive live groups your problem wrong highlighted word don wrong for humans survive for long time wild difficult humans social animal and that success and order for group function effectively sort ethical code this statement not correct isn don you and pointing that species conduct serves propogate not give you your tautology show that such examples moral systems goal propogation species goal natural system morality lives monagamous relationship not moral order ensure propogation species man impregnate women noted earlier lack mating such abstinence homosexuality isn destructive system worst neutral for that matter herds horses dominate stallion mates dies killed dominate stallion mates case your natural system morality shoot figurative foot mating practices reexamined keith
alt.atheism	political atheists kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes chimps almost human this mean that chimps moral will chimps system live social groups laws dictating undesired behavior keith
alt.atheism	political atheists sandvik newton apple kent sandvik writes you explain sudden violent behavior human beings your theory state that human detached primitive behavior violent and moralistic human becomes correct understanding wrong you this bifurcation point madman killing people roof campus you explain your theory explains such situation madmen mad explain output broken computer not keith
alt.atheism	political atheists bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes show that examples and provided not counter examples your supposed inherent moral hypothesis you successfully argue that domestication removes alters this morality that domestication will change behavior large degree domesticated animals exhibit behaviors not found wild don that can viewed good representatives wild animal kingdom since bred for thousands years produce behaviors etc keith
alt.atheism	political atheists mmwang adobe michael wang writes typed oed definitions you will note reading punishment inanimate object incapable showing mercy you can not that merciless punishment cruel you missed stuff parens you read definition transf transferred sense and fig figurative things can cruel samples text definition include not thy cruell nailes plucke poore eyes and puniness man centre cruel and frowning universe nails can cruel imagine nails your eyes painful this not imply that painless death cruel you supposed show keith
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality sfnntrc wbo lruk andrew cmu edu david sacco dsav andrew cmu edu writes tons mail move this discussion alt religion mac feel that life joke bob dylan you happy day your life you wouldn human you game show host movie heathers lecture lek chur process notes professor become notes student passing minds michael cobb and won raise taxes middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu taxes and spending cuts billion dollar deficits
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality qjahh mrs horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes article pww spac rice edu pww spacsun rice edu peter walker writes article qie fkt horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer wrote objective morality morality built objective values objective values come can measure mediated thair interaction real world moralon scalar valuino field science real world basis values not round you such thing objective science can not objectively kick head simple theories accurate predictions not objectively set tarot cards you conclusions don and exist place assumes objective reality doesn frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse hens evelyn conlon measure truth beauty goodness love friendship trust honesty etc things basis objective fact aren limited true can that can examples instances reason cannot measure reason that semantics mac michael cobb and won raise taxes middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu taxes and spending cuts billion dollar deficits
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes article horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes good logic bad good science bad definition great good bad horrible worse good defined bad come this setup this subjective people agreed switch order isn this defining unknown thing another that good that bad and bad that worse good circular mac sun starts orbit earth will accept bible michael cobb and won raise taxes middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu taxes and spending cuts billion dollar deficits
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality lsran inn exodus eng sun emarsh hernes sun eng sun eric marsh writes article hqxj jdg cso uiuc edu lis cso uiuc edu lis student writes hmmmm define objective morality depends you talk means you can your hair your ears and means stryper acceptable that general principles objective morality listed two places ten commandments sayings jesus depends whether you trust bible second depends whether you jesus god and whether you accurate copies gong moment and you wrote you defined objective morality and you qualified this objective morality subjective justifications you error this you disqualified play mac eric huh explain problem based morality that wrong gosh heck lot stuff that that wrong and that comes sources that wrong you base your belief atheism your knowledge and reasoning couldn that wrong mac michael cobb and won raise taxes middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu taxes and spending cuts billion dollar deficits
alt.atheism	islamic genocide pick yugoslavia and problems caused communism doesn matter guess religious leaders calling for end that can religiously motivated this despite fact that christians carve crosses dead muslims chests want land want cross carvings accidental don suspicious likely tragic situation bosnia combination ethnical and religious motives religion attribute that separates groups each agree that sad saga bosnia terrible example case religion not helping used weapon humans and sympathies bosnian side serbs oppressors willing use even christianity weapon friends cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	death penalty political atheists death penalty conceived deterrent crime legal shenanigans that added automatic appeals lengthy court battles etc relegated that purpose small part question instate death penalty meant and that deters crime rid doubt death penalty supposed deterrent crime doesn crime carry death penalty that effictive wouldn death penalty punishment fine for speeding punishment murder mind doesn care consequences another problem that people dont will caught wanted kill another person wouldn care penalty didn caught strictly deterrent lines torture dave fuller dfuller portal videocart
alt.atheism	thoughts christians cmtan iss nus tan chade meng dan writes personally feel that since religion such poweful psychological effect theists problem that religions enormous harm believers and humanity holy wars inquisitions inter religious hatred impedence science intellectual progress attitudes etc etc don can comments held that attempt change persons attitude lifestyle long makes happy and not tax this for atheists you don atheist knocking your door stopping you airport handing literature social event theists that thier form happy work for and make sister born and real thorn side for entire family for years finally clue that couldn that period bought atheist xtian books for birthday and xmas times birthday cards verses problem told mom that send sister atheist piece reading material don you dare mom wasn religious insist that not send society driven into that religion preach religion contained crock shit finally told sister that didn find life attractive exactly effort convert since sick religious types pampered looked for and worst respected atheists end sight dave fuller dfuller portal videocart
alt.atheism	bible quiz kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes you mind mailing questions pairs answers love for time theist comes door this you post answer key nanci you and author this quote send email andrew cmu edu coward for minute dead for rest your life
alt.atheism	bible thing interesting alt athiesm fact that bible thumpers and ilk this duller newsgroup almost deluded masses write silly things for athiests tear apart that tidbit wanted write can such document bible you want religious aren plausable books bible written multiple authors repeatedly contradict each minute tells you kill your kid talks back and not kill that xtians want follow deity pick that can consistent unlike last invented for people jesus son god didn god not put you that didn god not make symbols idols crosses don you that you fact bible that you track jesus illiterate didn write honestly hope that people bible understand that religious texts and that poorer quality boot reason xtianity escaped middle east roman wine poisoned lead made rome xtian bad dream this posting person person standing streetcorner and telling people hell will happy hatred and snap judgements can guide your robots life clayton forester mad scientist
alt.atheism	political atheists kcochran nyx edu keith justified and ancient cochran writes contridictions you want good question claim general trend disprove this guess you show that not general trend you claim you prove cold fusion provided examples show that trend general and you provided counterexamples surrounding mating practices etc don that cases disprove general trend natural morality and mating practices reexamined find immoral mating related activities you excluding mating related activities your natural morality mating practices special case that natural system can objectively deduced goal species propogation mind not equating two you that objective system isn necessarily natural you you not man wrote natural moral system objective moral system that animals follow natural system objective objective systems not natural terms can not equated natural system subset objective since homosexuality observed animals including birds and dolphins you claim that animals capacity immoral don claim that homosexuality immoral isn harmful isn helpful mating process and you that homosexuality observed animal kingdom don you mean bisexuality can determine end moral you claiming group implies entity this standard jargon read textbook forms used that goals not inherent that postulates not determine argued that arise natural goal somewhat removed postulate assume posit that goals aren inherent can create theory postulate that sun revolves earth that moon made green cheese and stars portions angels that intrudes into dimensional reality you such contradict observations can build mathematical proof postulate that length side triangle length second side triangle and degree angle connecting can determine length side postulate that generally found true don your postulate valid guess people receptive order assume your system you show that your postulates work and goals survival and happiness work you don not good goals keith
alt.atheism	member article hiew portal videocart dfuller portal videocart dave fuller writes started reading this group today and large participant daily postings liked section faq constructing logical arguments atheist not turn people into atheists figure people don care view comes wrong willing admit possibility religious followers dont capability happy aboard dave fuller dfuller portal videocart official keeper list nicknames that people alt atheism didn had such list you your awarded nickname buckminster time you post article sign your nickname dave buckminster fuller jim humor means never you copeland god dead and actor plays part sting words fear will find place your heart history voice reason faith curse will teach freedom past things can worse nothing
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie article hkv epv blaze jhu edu arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes judaism for maddi confirmed this for and reiterate that can easily leave religion time simply making public declaration lazy that religion cannot held responsible islamic countries publically renouncing islam can quite dangerous countries not you necessarily practicing true islam danger remains cannot blame failure publically renounce islam laziness opposed desire stay alive and you planning pull rushdie declaring leaving religion concerned compared plans rushdie case discussion can tragic that islamic countries this islamic countries constitutions contains statements that islamic law incorporated kuwait can freely make such statements fear not mention that pointed that rushdie books that not muslim and surely readers books provide number witnesses this story become tiresome conditions clear you care make your point clear make chronology and show that had made public statements leaving islam prior writing tsv make such statements made that clear rejoin islam talking personal feelings gregg
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article apr bradford newnham bradford leonard newnham writes gregg jaeger jaeger buphy edu wrote khomenei jerk and plenty british leaders qur basis judgement khomenei heretic standards qur end story you specific exactly khomanei heretic and jerk judged koran liking for guy nothing contrary teachings koran told iranian research students that share office easy and convenient for you denounce feeling that your views not clear cut and widely accepted you suggest made this clear will khomeini put price head another country this makes jerk international outlaw khomeini advocates view that series twelve islamic leaders twelve imams free error sin this makes heretic qur muhammad chastised for error directly god qur that muhammad greatest example proper islamic behavior muslim free error usual almost islamic viewpoints muslims perhaps you this case widespread agreement matters islam viewpoints issues not islamic and this for large group people name comes back koran imprecise wording qur not imprecise wording true that interpretations interpretations words entire text qur makes meanings precise for intelligent people free power lust come agreement gregg
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article apr bradford newnham bradford leonard newnham writes gregg jaeger jaeger buphy edu wrote slightly incongruous find union jack flying city hall belfast not british want big expensive problem that majority population want problem that majority can open mouths public perhaps quite alot incentive for british control north channel and irish sea waste dump appalled dumping harbor belfast understanding that quite alot radioactivity enters water quite problem independence britain and stopped accepting waste you suggesting that british industry isn making profit situation gregg
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article apr bradford newnham bradford leonard newnham writes gregg jaeger jaeger buphy edu wrote you explain qur your eyes carries excess baggage another era qur opinion carries such baggage run modern economy charging interest loans hear even fundamentalist iran compromise this ideal sort loans and you heard exactly gregg
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article jkj fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes hope islamic bank bcci ripped small depositors muslim community and jon grow childish propagandist gregg
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie article apr bradford newnham bradford leonard newnham writes gregg jaeger jaeger buphy edu wrote and western countries isn legal concept not slightest bit pertinent topic british author living united kingdom protection british law forgetting governments superior entities religious organizations forgive gun higher law this degenerating zumder logic governments superior entities elected people religious leaders not perhaps not christianity islam choice religious leaders made people for your superiority argument people trust make law represents higher law that democracy democracy basic element islam learn that notice that called fundamentalists algeria repressed secular government won free and democratic elections gregg
alt.atheism	free moral agency article vice ico tek bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine subject free moral agency date apr gmt article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes testement satan rarely mentioned huh doesn sda bible book job this suffering world caught inthe crossfire and sometimes innocents teh guilty hurt that opinion and hope cleared things your omnipotent and omniscient god splainin create satan for shits and giggles bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea didn never mentioned satan rarely excuse for lack perfect memory omnipotence tammy soory sound cranky apoplogize feelings hurt
alt.atheism	note bobby article apr daffy wisc edu mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough subject note bobby date wed apr gmt article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes madhausc ckip netcom madhaus netcom maddi hausmann writes mark you vegetarian diets problem not vitamins balancing proteins vitamin that cannot obtained animal products and this concern vegans eat meat dairy eggs and problem supplements for vegans come animal products you ovo lacto vegetarian diet eat dairy and eggs this not issue didn original posting vegetarian diets that close friends devout vegetarians and vitamin supplements thinking long time since read article once talking special dietary vegetarians didn quote full numbers nice this place can come grain rice understand brands australia and places tablets grain rice you aren enriched type basically rice and soybeans almost you hadn heard rice thought contribute issue norm you contributed programming thread earlier fred rice darice yoyo monash edu vegan vegetarian taht eats animal products eggs milk cheese etc years vegan diet you start taking supplements found animals acutally bodies make bodies use years lacto oveo vegetarians milk products and eggs don supplements and post contridicting mish mash knowledge gleaned tammy
alt.atheism	morality political atheists kcochran nyx edu keith justified and ancient cochran writes you that isn for instinctive act moral that order for act act morality person immoral action disregard that order for act moral immoral that implies intelligence not instinct that action not you keith
alt.atheism	morality political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes you that isn for instinctive act moral that things explain instinctive acts can moral acts and happy listen for example instinctive not murder that order for act act morality person immoral action disregard weaker that possibility that organism not people talking can alternatives intelligent beings can moral even bahavior beings mimics and emphasis you place intelligence animals species kill each arbitarily don you that this isn act morality animals aren intelligent keith
alt.atheism	morality political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes don expect lion not kind fact don evidence that lions such issues and that don you can assign moral significance instinctive behaviour lions that moral behavior likely null behavior that doesn work moral immoral cases that morality remnant evolution moral system based concepts practiced animal kingdom you basically that you moral undefinable term and that moral systems don exist can agree definition terms can hope discuss perfectly clear that that moral system that can speak for people this doesn anywhere your beliefs irrelevant you can share discuss keith
alt.atheism	cruel political atheists sdoe nmsu edu stephen doe writes time that death penalty cruel unusual will outlawed present people don this this fellow speaks objective natural morality suppose that majority decides slavery longer immoral not claim that system objective keith
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie article bcc ics uci edu bvickers ics uci edu brett vickers writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes you not muslim sort fatwa issued khomeini not relevant you can understand your fear persecution and share even you muslim rushdie behavior not completely excusable fatwa issued khomeini relevant doesn live iran issued khomeini shouldn relevant issued honest and learned scholar islam relevant muslim contrary islamic law muslims required respect that decides whether rushdie behavior excusable sufficiently versed islamic law and capable reasoning you talking weak sense excuse depends sense excuse you mind and cares you inexcusable thinks opinion important you don care care that you don care gregg
alt.atheism	free moral agency and kent article sandvik sandvik kent apple sandvik newton apple kent sandvik writes sandvik newton apple kent sandvik subject free moral agency and kent date thu apr gmt article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy wrote ezekiel your hart filled pride your beauty you corrupted your wisdom for sake your splendor cast you ground and exposed you helpless curious gaze kings for you bible scholars you knowthat verses refer prince tyre this prophesy and addressed human prince verses refer king tyre term for satan tammy rationale connect prince tyre satan you give rational bible cites afraid that this not case your thinking model falls apart house cards cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net time ezekiel written israel apostacy and not mistaken tyre make war israel prince tyre human ruler tyre wicked man calling satan king tyre ezekiel that satan real ruler tyre don interpretation neccessarily orthodox christian christian bible commentaries interpret king tyre reference satan haven read ezekiel throughly long time tammy
alt.atheism	free moral agency and jeff clark article dfc dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes dbstu benedikt rosenau subject free moral agency and jeff clark date thu apr gmt article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes deletion you millions suffer for adam and pretty sick creating universe gonna respond giving small theology lesson forgive used theology major that this planet involved cosmic struggle great controversy betweed christ and satan borrowed book title god interests entire universe making decisions deletion universe created can you tyrannic creatures likes your definitions your god created satan full knowledge happen including choice satan can you explain free will and omniscience didn your god that happen even created world concerned tyrant care fine for that idea comes possibility abuse power your god introduced your description you that you read faq part preaching benedikt don feel that preaching answer people questions and talking religion beliefs comes post don intent converting don expect for atheists this newsgroup grain salt state beleve believeit and and that preaching soory and soapbox tammy
alt.atheism	pompous ass arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes not that made nazi comparisons people compared religious people nazi germany that started things knew things strangely and grew bigger things that motto things you contradicted motto things that bothered mentiopning you huh things reference germany people that similar things germany name that things that and that weren waste time repeating sounds knew looked books avail that pave for intrusions motto hasn caused problems year history doubt caused problems you ignore instance describes you caused problems shown that things motto that likely don motto initiates sort harassment harassment will occur whether not motto present keith
alt.atheism	pompous ass andrew newell tan psuvm psu edu writes you support your claim that people will simply harass matter doubt this true theists will loss and that reason for god trust motto coins and coins representation government christians ammunition slander atheists unpatriotic ban ammunition not rid guns and heard this used conversation christians fall back things this not use worse national anthem changed god bless america list imagine year set coins labeled motto god dead such statement coins offend almost christian and tempted rub that motto face christians debunking standard motto slinging gets boring you people you despise statement printed item that represents government endorsement government coin motto endorsement trusting god endorsement acknowledgement gods things that people proud don motto encourages belief don feel trusting god government putting coin prints for motto legitimate read god gods godlessness trust you approve such motto whether motto intended anti atheist not turns open invitation use anti atheist tool and removing tool will solve problem will increase problem keith
alt.atheism	objective morality political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes want this omniscient perform feat terming actions wrong you omniscient you exactly and purpose mind goal mind you sould methodically judge whether not this action accordance general goal don you show existence objective moral system exist practice difficult perfectly emulate mean you understand concept objective system thought you explaining don understand you explaining objective system goals actions judged compatible goals not simple problem systems current practice that goals differ that goals each society note that objective system not necessarily inherent concept innocence dependent whether actions wrong and this depends moral system objective system can deemed innocent not quite easily omniscient person cleared recursive definition murder complaining don solves speculate objective moral system question whether you can even times and for worth don you cleared murder part you problem you mean harmed harm you spend your existence metabolising food for another species moral systems considered species for enslave animals not humans ideally perhaps wouldn even bother animals point wrong enslave humans persoanl moral system second point vegetarian can enslave animals not kill you vegetarian for health reasons you vegetarian fail personal views relevant wrong eat animals your personal moral system not perfectly valid kill members species for food nice animals not made suffer for instance cow field lives life wild happy veal youngsters aren treated objective moral system don goal this system inherent system natural moral system nope kill species for food keith
alt.atheism	judge bobby article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes kmr cwru edu keith ryan subject judge bobby date thu apr gmt mozumder writes tammy healy writes liberty quote christian writer named ellen white hope that will you edit your remarks this group future not set standard not make your opinions your views duty your interpretations scripture criterion for and your heart condemn not come your ideal thoughts fromthe mount blessing point point you judge god true judge sun starts orbit earth will accept bible agree totally you amen you stated and world tammy
alt.atheism	thoughts article vice ico tek bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine subject thoughts keywords dan bissell date apr gmt article bissda saturn wwc edu bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes want start and that christian makes sense you read tony campollo book liar lunatic real thing title writes book part effort destroy christianity process christian this good fun since group had such ripe opportunity gut gill and fillet poor bastard popcorn bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea hope you not flame give coutesy you tammy
alt.atheism	judge bobby article apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder subject judge bobby date wed apr gmt article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes bobby liberty quote christian writer named ellen white hope that will you edit your remarks this group future not set standard not make your opinions your views duty your interpretations scripture criterion for and your heart condemn not come your ideal thoughts fromthe mount blessing hope quoting this doesn make atheists gag ellen white put tammy point peace bobby mozumder point that you set your views that eveil this world caused atheism ridiculous and counterproductive dialogue this newsgroups your posts spirit condemnation atheists this newsgroup bacause don exactly you you convert atheists you failing miserably position constantly defending agaist insulting attacks you you blind that you didn messgae quote tammy
alt.atheism	death penalty political atheists article vice ico tek bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes article apr leland stanford edu rush leland stanford edu voelkerding writes worry case innocent man convicted horrible warrant death penalty and put laws into place make virtually impossible execute real criminals death penalty not serving original purpose changed don numbers back this accordingly you use cuff number innocent people sentenced die acceptable loss for benefit capital punishment surprised ratio that low approximately dozen cases execution innocent since turn century that period sentenced people death accounting for cases that don truth reasonable assume that twice that innocent people fact executed that raise number death sentences metered since half million for your acceptance ratio hold doubt that case point acceptable loss not even that perhaps find solution bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek suggestions solution realize hand nature numbers used and can answer acceptable loss rate another post despise idea supporting criminals for life economics situation that concern money spent feeding clothing housing and taking care people demonstrated that unfit live society number places and worthwhile and enrish lives americans give people jobs give homeless shelter number things clyde girls butterflies don reason robert heinlein
alt.atheism	thoughts bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes book that jesus liar crazy modern day koresh convinced religious fantasies time that messiah rebel leader that organisation jews built into godhood for purpose throwing yoke roman oppression reasons wouldn liar follows die for lie moslem fanatics strap bombs backs and driving into jewish embassies dying for truth hint nazi soldiers wwii dying for truth people die for lies time wouldn people liar people hitler liar napoleon mussolini ronald reagan spend millions dollars year find techniques detect lying answer wouldn liar lied things gathered and gathered hearing had healed call fool heal people you healed people bible god doesn exist possibility bible not divinely inspired and can use piece evidence written unbiased observers niether lunatic entire nation drawn crazy doubtful fact rediculous for example hitler mussolini lunatics genghis khan jim jones thousands examples history people drawn lunatics drawn david koresh fool logical people this since wasn liar lunatic real thing cannot rule liar lunatic not mention possibilities not this triad things note fulfilled loads prophecies psalms isaiah and hrs alone this betrayal possibly fulfilling prophecy aware order fulfil prophecies possibly selective diting behalf keepers holy bible for thousand years general public had access possibly that text written such riddles nostradamus that that happens can twisted fit words raving fictional prophecy and crucifixion don bible this moment time write will use stuff hard christian deleted severely recommend you reconsider reasons you christian unconvincing unbiased observer jeff
alt.atheism	political atheists article ajinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes chimps almost human this mean that chimps moral will chimps system live social groups laws dictating undesired behavior verb warned that back kindergarten such laws jon
alt.atheism	thoughts bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes want start and that christian shouldn involved bit deleted book that jesus liar crazy modern day koresh reasons wouldn liar follows die for lie wouldn people liar people gathered and gathered hearing had healed call fool heal people niether lunatic entire nation drawn crazy doubtful fact rediculous for example drawn david koresh fool logical people this since wasn liar lunatic real thing righto dan this your cornflakes book that muhammad liar crazy modern day mad mahdi reasons wouldn liar follows die for lie wouldn people liar people gathered and gathered hearing son law made sun stand call fool make sun stand niether lunatic entire nation drawn crazy doubtful fact rediculous for example drawn mad mahdi fool logical people this since wasn liar lunatic real thing ron house usq house helios usq edu toowoomba australia
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes article jkj fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes hope islamic bank bcci ripped small depositors muslim community and jon grow childish propagandist gregg pointed that practice things aren quite wonderful utopia you folks claim upsets you exactly childish open question bbci example islamically owned and operated bank will bet weren real islamic owners and operators and turned long running and quite ruthless operation steal money small and quite naive depositors and naive depositors put life savings into bcci nasty interest motivated western bank street that believed islamically owned and operated bank couldn possibly cheat don con into thinking that will work time jon
alt.atheism	morality political atheists article sninn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes you that isn for instinctive act moral that things explain instinctive acts can moral acts and happy listen for example instinctive not murder not murdering moral significance since nothing voluntary that order for act act morality person immoral action disregard weaker that possibility that organism not people talking can alternatives intelligent beings can moral even bahavior beings mimics you starting point mimicry not necessarily action imitated parrot pretty polly isn necessarily commenting pulchritude polly and emphasis you place intelligence animals species kill each arbitarily don and posters you examples exactly this you short memory you that this isn act morality animals aren intelligent possibility that organism not people talking can alternatives posting you replying jon
alt.atheism	moraltiy political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes act morally for reason moral morality instinctive animals that morality instinctive animals attempt assume your conclusion conclusion you conclusion correct err that behaviour instinctive animals natural moral system disagreeing definition moral earlier you that conscious act your definition instinctive behavior pattern act morality you apply human terms humans that even not conscious alternative this not prevent behavior moral you don that morality behavior pattern human morality moral action that consistent pattern that enforce behavior moral you getting this backwards you show that behaviour pattern morality whether morality behavior pattern irrelevant since can behavior pattern for example motions planets that people not call morality show your definition can shown and morality can thought large class princples defined terms things laws physics you silly talk moral planet obeys laws phyics silly talk animals free will keith
alt.atheism	cruel political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes this thread started discussion whether not death penalty constituted cruel punishment forbidden constitution didn meant cruel you supreme court and makes sense refer constitution quite silent meaning word cruel spent quite bit time wording constitution picked words meanings implied intent looked dictionary define word isn this sufficient discussing death penalty and that discussion resulted murder resulted intial discussion objective morality this times removed morality discussion discussing mening word cruel and constitution nothing that discussing relation death penalty and constitution not define each words doesn cruel can dictionary and keith
alt.atheism	political atheists kcochran nyx edu keith justified and ancient cochran writes that you thought theory meant humans generally capable overpowering instincts not follow that this necessarily intelligent aren animals generally capable overpowering instincts good question biologist answer animals brains set differently animals can trained instincts serve reason contradict keith
alt.atheism	morality political atheists article inn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes don expect lion not kind fact don evidence that lions such issues and that don you can assign moral significance instinctive behaviour lions that moral behavior likely null behavior that doesn work moral immoral cases that craziest thing heard you doesn work moral that morality remnant evolution and that people discuss morality daily basis kind evolutionary hangover your toe moral system based concepts practiced animal kingdom this use phrase based not sufficiently familiar you mean based and significance for your argument you basically that you moral undefinable term and that moral systems don exist can agree definition terms can hope discuss perfectly clear that that moral system that can speak for people this doesn anywhere your beliefs irrelevant you can share discuss can you moral beliefs you raise topic never considered quite happy invent moral belief thin air jon
alt.atheism	pompous ass article jiinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes not that made nazi comparisons people compared religious people nazi germany that started things knew things strangely and grew bigger things that motto things you contradicted motto things that bothered mentiopning you huh things reference germany people that similar things germany name that things that and that weren waste time repeating sounds knew looked books avail that not true gave you two examples pevasive anti semitism german christianity hitler arrived system social ranks that used imperail germany and austria distinguish jews rest population terrible helped set psychology gradual disenfranchisement jews made easier jon
alt.atheism	thoughts christians excerpts netnews alt atheism apr thoughts christians dave fuller portal sick religious types pampered looked for and worst respected atheists end sight couple good atheists even good steadfast agnostics high political offices last time had openly atheist president don aren rhetorical questions bout supreme court justices thing that ticked ago for news program local station promo cults and prey young ahem hear baptism birth that isn preying young don used ack barf catholic and even confirmed shortly thereafter decided load mom insisted that continue church felt duty bring believer that presumptuous things heard life suggested talk priest and agreed priest amazingly cool basically that didn good forcing guess wasn amazingly cool response you hope for expect human pose didn expect find absurd that religion exists can usefulness people facing fact that you worm food decades and that isn cosmic purpose humanity and universe can pretty difficult for people readily pre digested solution this pretty attractive you gullible willing suspend your reasoning abilities for piece mind had stuff rammed your throat for long you can remember religion general nice patch for human weaknesses organized religion nice population control blech chris chris leger sophomore carnegie mellon computer engineering remember you don you can ignore
alt.atheism	mary fault you occurred today that this christian thing can blamed solely mary married joseph gets knocked you joe will finds getting mary comes this ridiculous story god making pregnant can that ridiculous number people that never tells truth and even tells poor jesus that hot shit son god tells this since bought mary story mary turn adultress and liar and mankind greatest folly recently minted two cents chris chris leger sophomore carnegie mellon computer engineering remember you don you can ignore
alt.atheism	rawlins debunks creationism article apr rambo atlanta wpr atlanta bill rawlins wrote talking origins not science science cannot explain origins for person exclude science issue origins that higher truth science this false premise hear god enjoy science you don understand observing god creation macroevolution mixture percent science and percent religion guaranteed percent error bill hereby award you golden shovel award for biggist pile bullshit whils afraid not bit religion macroevolution and you made grand statement that science can not explain origins large extent bill rawlins wpr atlanta peter walker you knowledge dept space physics you thing that you and astronomy you not thing admit you not rice university this knowledge houston ung tzu
alt.atheism	thoughts bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes want start and that christian this alt atheism hope you arent convert makes sense disagree book that jesus liar crazy modern day koresh you shouldn give book weight don that statements correct likely that jesus fame attributed death had strong motives things note fulfilled loads prophecies psalms isaiah and hrs alone prophecy and significant don people understand christian understand not lot churches life and total sacrafice for god sake sell your computer and donate you life your religion don waste time keith
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality article qkq horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes wild guess and freedom objectively valuable base this assumption that world deprived utterly freedom that act contrary volition almost want complain that assert that freedom not valuable almost can that bit absurd assert not raining rainy day this candidate for objective and condition for objective morality that objective values such this exist you shown that vast majority not agree this nothing subjective majority event challenge your assertion societies heck citizens willing trade freedom for security promises that made can broken john laws man honor word
alt.atheism	islamic authority women snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes article apr wam umd edu west wam umd edu writes and belief horrors crusades emasculation and internment native americans killing tribes south america inquisition counter reformation and wars that salem witch trials european witch hunts holy wars middle east colonization destruction africa wars christianity and islam post crusade genocide biblical canaanites and philistines aryian invasion india attempted genocide jews nazi germany current missionary assaults tribes africa horrors you mentioned due lack people religion lack people religion include fanatics people that don you that you you shove throat that religion horrors covers false save peace bobby mozumder thought another bible definately not lack religion book esther read day for reasons describes origin pur jewish celbration joy and peace long and short story that people killed people tripping peacefull solutions lying you couldn swing sacred cow slammin into nice peaceful solution joshua and jawbone ass spring mind agree bobby this religion used kill large numbers people not used form manner that originally intended for that doesn reduce number deaths directly caused religion minor observation fact that almost nothing pure universe act honestly attempting find true meaning religious teaching times inspired hatred and led war people led religious leaders involved stomache contentsthan absolute truth and driven kill leaders point that things involved religion that lead war whether things part religion unpleasant side effect bobby result people switching religion and atheism spontaneously results religious groups long involved majority bloodiest parts man history atheists hand preen preen typically not ideological social caste driven organize and spread beliefs overuse nazism and stalinism show true this two groups clear and specific ideologies religious persecution means cannot obvious that groups founded for reasons used religious persecution not belief system made powerfull hard basically bobby examples wars that not specifically fought religion that not choices key west flames heating bottom silver butter dishes ciao chris blask
alt.atheism	objective morality political atheists article utinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes want this omniscient perform feat terming actions wrong you omniscient you exactly and purpose mind goal mind you sould methodically judge whether not this action accordance general goal you contradicting pretty massive and don you even noticed another part this thread you telling that goal natural morality animals survive suppose that your omniscient told you that long term survival humanity requires exterminate species terrestrial alien that make moral jon
alt.atheism	pompous ass article pinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider andrew newell tan psuvm psu edu writes fall back things this not use worse national anthem changed god bless america list worse not definately violation rules govt supposedly follows changed not personally concerned anthem since don come across daily unavoidable routines christian and tempted rub that motto face christians debunking standard motto slinging gets boring you people you despise don despise people opinions meant chatting refuse listen idea becomes exercise for amusement for motto legitimate read god gods godlessness trust you approve such motto not rid current change such that
alt.atheism	moraltiy political atheists article ekinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes act morally for reason moral morality instinctive animals that morality instinctive animals attempt assume your conclusion conclusion you conclusion correct err that behaviour instinctive animals natural moral system disagreeing definition moral earlier you that conscious act your definition instinctive behavior pattern act morality you apply human terms humans pardon apply human terms humans confusion guy that animal behaviour instinctive not moral sugnificance refusing apply human terms animals turned into applying human terms that even not conscious alternative this not prevent behavior moral you this you convince you don that morality behavior pattern human morality moral action that consistent pattern that enforce behavior moral you getting this backwards you show that behaviour pattern morality whether morality behavior pattern irrelevant since can behavior pattern for example motions planets that people not call morality show your definition can shown offered times accept your definition you ascribe moral significence orbital motion planets and morality can thought large class princples defined terms things laws physics you silly talk moral planet obeys laws phyics silly talk animals free will law silly and silly livesey finds intuitive silly schneider finds intuitive silly that devastating argument isn jon
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes article bcc ics uci edu bvickers ics uci edu brett vickers writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes you not muslim sort fatwa issued khomeini not relevant you can understand your fear persecution and share even you muslim rushdie behavior not completely excusable considered called islam related dialogue total waste time can restrain this instance gregg this come senses and accept knowing wisdom and power quran and allah not that allah drops congratulate wise choice allah rolls bones and allah gets crisco bends and invites spin block wow realize that allah for commitment ready for man programming gotta call you thinking renounce islam btw gregg allah thinks you jim
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie article bafa dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes fortunately religions replaced systems that human rights higher secular laws criminal life victims life islam places rights society and member rights individual this call true human rights you support claim precedence islamic law case you laws religions muslim living muslim land bound laws land live not disregard islamic law remains part life laws land conflict religion such extent that prevented allowed practise religion leave land islamic law precendence secular law instructed follow laws land that live islamic state ruled khaliphate religions islam allowed rule religious laws provided don affect genral population and don come into direct conflict state laws dhimmis muslim population exempt islamic laws religion such fighting jihad giving zakat alms giving etc benefit two acts such military protection and poor will receive zakat not rushdie and reliable information hadn left islam islamic law burden proof benedikt fatwa didn rushdie affirm faith islam didn public conversion islam binding islamic laws publicly renounce belief islam burden mas inc masud ahmed khan mas cadence opinions
alt.atheism	slavery sex allowed marriage article apr bradford newnham bradford leonard newnham writes this sounds nice helping each and smiling and fluffy bunnies wake people not that evident history that society succeeded had rely goodwill and unselfishness people isn obvious places iran that even greedy people society attracted positions power sounds recipe for disaster leonard mail newnham bradford leonard give you example this father recently bought business business price pounds and father approached people community for raised pounds interest free loans friends and relatives and muslims knew had cash and rest business loan paying muslim lenders helped loans clear bank debt and save intrest this example muslim community helping another common identity muslims turn father helped people buying houses minimise amount intrest pay and cases buy houses intrest free fortunate community fact leonard work fluffy bunny sight ithat beauty islam mas inc masud ahmed khan mas cadence opinions
alt.atheism	pompous ass andrew newell tan psuvm psu edu writes fall back things this not use worse worse not definately violation rules govt supposedly follows for motto legitimate read god gods godlessness trust you approve such motto not rid current change such that wrong this motto you wouldn approve even that beginning that you mottos general you plurbis unum keith
alt.atheism	pompous ass livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes things reference germany people that similar things germany name that not true gave you two examples pevasive anti semitism german christianity hitler arrived system social ranks that used imperail germany and austria distinguish jews rest population don things orders worse motto you that motto thing that will lead worse things keith
alt.atheism	morality political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes explain instinctive acts can moral acts and happy listen for example instinctive not murder not murdering moral significance since nothing voluntary you that moral act significant voluntary you this and humans ability disregard instincts intelligent beings can moral even bahavior beings mimics you starting point mimicry not necessarily action imitated parrot pretty polly isn necessarily commenting pulchritude polly you attaching things term moral this good that animals species don kill each you this you that animals machines and that nothing wrong animals species kill each arbitarily don and posters you examples exactly this you short memory weren arbitrary killings slayings related sort mating ritual whatnot you that this isn act morality animals aren intelligent possibility that organism not people talking can alternatives posting you replying don understand your distinctions you mean can small child moral gorilla dolphin platypus line drawn aware you call mechanism prevent animals species arbitrarily killing each don you find fact that don significant keith
alt.atheism	objective morality political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes another part this thread you telling that goal natural morality animals survive that humans somewhat this perhaps goal actualization suppose that your omniscient told you that long term survival humanity requires exterminate species terrestrial alien you letting omniscient give information this not part original premise that make moral type morality you talking natural sense not immoral harm another species long doesn adversely affect your guess keith
alt.atheism	member jcopelan nyx edu and writes official keeper list nicknames that people alt atheism didn had such list you your awarded nickname buckminster time you post article sign your nickname dave buckminster fuller jim humor means never you copeland list agree nickname laws laid gipu almost years ago you that written iron tablets that melted once and had reinscribed since prophet gipu decree that you post list nicknames for frequent posters nanci
alt.atheism	political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes chimps system live social groups laws dictating undesired behavior such laws quotation marks enclose laws not such rules even instinctive unwritten etc surely sort random chance lead chimp society into chaos keith
alt.atheism	pompous ass article qlef inn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes things reference germany people that similar things germany name that not true gave you two examples pevasive anti semitism german christianity hitler arrived system social ranks that used imperail germany and austria distinguish jews rest population don things orders worse motto you that motto thing that will lead worse things you don things twenty twenty hindsight you led jon
alt.atheism	objective morality political atheists article qlf ginn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes another part this thread you telling that goal natural morality animals survive that humans somewhat this perhaps goal actualization humans somewhat exactly thread you telling that natural morality animals survive and this thread you claiming that omniscient can and wrong this omniscient use for criterion long term survival human species omniscient map into assign and wrong actions suppose that your omniscient told you that long term survival humanity requires exterminate species terrestrial alien you letting omniscient give information this not part original premise your original premises habit changing time perhaps you review for and difference omniscient assign and wrong actions and telling result that make moral type morality you talking natural sense not immoral harm another species long doesn adversely affect your guess talking morality introduced you implemented this omniscient that can assign and wrong actions you type morality that jon
alt.atheism	slavery sex allowed marriage article apr cadence mas cadence masud khan writes leonard give you example this father recently bought business business price pounds and father approached people community for raised pounds interest free loans friends and relatives and muslims knew had cash and rest business loan paying muslim lenders helped loans clear bank debt and save intrest this example muslim community helping another common identity muslims turn father helped people buying houses minimise amount intrest pay and cases buy houses intrest free fortunate community wrong this banks started place sooner your father and pals will lend money eventually broke and will realise that havn managing risk will that quantify risk and persuade borrowers not greater loans can carry and since don want worry calculations and handling money will specialise that reinvent interest good muslims call fact leonard work fluffy bunny sight ithat beauty islam riiiight that john major opened government department couple months ago promote minority business can lending another cups sugar jon
alt.atheism	morality political atheists article qlettinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes explain instinctive acts can moral acts and happy listen for example instinctive not murder not murdering moral significance since nothing voluntary you that moral act significant voluntary you this you force morally responsible for and humans ability disregard instincts make your mind instinctive not murder not intelligent beings can moral even bahavior beings mimics you starting point mimicry not necessarily action imitated parrot pretty polly isn necessarily commenting pulchritude polly you attaching things term moral this good that animals species don kill each you this not even correct animals species kill another you that animals machines and that nothing wrong sigh times round this loop that instinctive bahaviour moral significance quite prepared that higher animals such primates beginnings moral sense since exhibit awareness animals species kill each arbitarily don and posters you examples exactly this you short memory weren arbitrary killings slayings related sort mating ritual whatnot you that killing animals moral significance and not this your natural morality you that this isn act morality animals aren intelligent possibility that organism not people talking can alternatives posting you replying don understand your distinctions you mean can small child moral gorilla dolphin platypus line drawn aware you blind you that this sentence means possibility that organism not people talking can alternatives that imply you call mechanism prevent animals species arbitrarily killing each don you find fact that don significant find fact that significant jon
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality article jxru news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes you base your belief atheism your knowledge and reasoning couldn that wrong atheism based ignorance ignorance existence god don fall into atheists don pride mistake bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes article jkj fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes hope islamic bank bcci ripped small depositors muslim community and grow childish propagandist gosh gregg pretty good reading lines you precious work this refutation you flesh bit miss full grandeur content virtue blinding atheism bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	morality political atheists article inn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes that moral behavior likely null behavior smell sig material bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	cruel political atheists article mdinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes discussing relation death penalty and constitution not define each words doesn cruel can dictionary and dictionary gain hand knowledge suffering your posts bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	pompous ass article jiinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes things reference germany people that similar things germany name that things that and that weren waste time repeating sounds knew looked books avail anne frank exhibit makes your small world afternoon bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	thoughts christians article ofnwyg voa andrew cmu edu andrew cmu edu patrick leger writes hear baptism birth that isn preying young don that praying young preying young comes bright eyed altar boy finds priest wears that chasible bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	political atheists article qlfd inn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes chimps system live social groups laws dictating undesired behavior such laws quotation marks enclose laws not your highness and exactly quotation marks enclose laws not case you didn notice function that ironicise such rules even instinctive unwritten etc surely sort random chance lead chimp society into chaos perhaps chimps that failed evolve cooperative behaviour died and left that evolve such behaviour chance you proclaim natural morality time organism evolves cooperative behaviour natural morality bee dance jon
alt.atheism	objective morality political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes humans somewhat exactly thread you telling that natural morality animals survive and this thread you claiming that omniscient can and wrong this omniscient use for criterion long term survival human species that question isn goals not that obvious can set goals happiness and liberty and golden rule etc goals aren inherent defined objective system omniscient map into assign and wrong actions not difficult you goals mind and absolute knoweldge intent etc you letting omniscient give information this not part original premise your original premises habit changing time perhaps you review for and difference omniscient assign and wrong actions and telling result omniscience fine long information not isn this resolution free will problem interactive omniscient situation type morality you talking natural sense not immoral harm another species long doesn adversely affect your guess talking morality introduced you implemented this omniscient that can assign and wrong actions you type morality that speaking objective system general didn mention specific goal determine morality action keith
alt.atheism	islam caused believing genocide caused theism article apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes that can happen atheism beleiver knowledgeable religion good can happen this tiresome statement coming you definition not assertion islam good belief islam good believer islam can produce good islam good blah blah blah that circular gets and equally meaningless that produces good good that produces nothing unapplied definition and you application that true you true that silly conversely you handedly that can happen atheism offshoot and becomes true don and doesn religions aquainted islam teaches exclusion and caste and suggests harsh penalties for behaviors that logical call for punishment limits speech and sex for example this not good pain and suffering justification for waving hand inaccessible god you toss word knowledgable bit carelessly for knowledgeable believer contradiction terms infer that you mean believer terms faith and you knowledge faith nothing jim halat
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie anecdote islam article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes precise rejection god and leaving islam perfectly free muslim and doubt and question existence god long not reject god that rushdie made atheism clear front sufficient number proper witnesses question regard legal issue status time crime committed that problem organization religious not idea that simple speech such this basis for crime jim halat
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie anecdote islam article ursa bear halat pooh bears jim halat writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes precise rejection god and leaving islam perfectly free muslim and doubt and question existence god long not reject god that rushdie made atheism clear front sufficient number proper witnesses question regard legal issue status time crime committed add that impossible rejects god you choose punish talk jim halat
alt.atheism	silly question tianity article apr daffy wisc edu mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes insult your homestate coming wisconsin backwards never understand that people held such bigoted and backwards views never wisconsin neighbor minnesota child middle atlantic found that states provences that stood this youngster mind california texas and florida name obvious minnesota and wisconsin stuck solely basis politics translated extremely liberal and progressive states and recent trip minnestoa last summer served support that state reputation guess that wisconsin that impression people minnesota left neighbors question head wisconsin whether not effect relationship cheese and serial killers jim halat
alt.atheism	nonexistance atheists date apr edt kmagnacca eagle wesleyan edu article bskendigc jcwx jzn netcom bskendig netcom brian kendig writes quotes deleted people idea means atheist bobby mozumder clones world thought that explains things posted soc religion islam attached quote bobby effect that atheists lying evil scum and asked commonly held idea muslims response asking unknown guess you soc culture groups middle east south asia area open islam channel defined atheists polytheists cuz world created that each particle god created gods soc culture african nice for contrasting viewpoints benevolence religion sudan mentioned
alt.atheism	keith relativist article pigidinnsot gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes not you thrown into cage tiger and mauled you blame tiger aha admits moral relativist keith you start wafffling for human maul thrown into cage speak you start posting tome decent evidence retract your absolute morality blurb weeks ago keith desert brat john mcvey elc eltnc eng whyalla uni australia levels unisa edu darwin for replies mail whjjm whyalla unisa edu disclaimer unisa hates opinions doesn make rainbow beautiful that god name smack understand refractive mechanisms that chance for produce jim perry perry dsinc alice chains
alt.atheism	thoughts article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes hope you not flame give coutesy you tammy person balanced reasoned argument tammy happy discuss makes astounding claims not backed evidence expected substantiate original author had that opinion and not supportable people simply not claimed things and logic flawed argument for christianity effort convince atheists and message for will not things read you told that pink fluffy elephants dance sugar plum fairy dark side jupiter demand evidence adda adda wainwright dim atal llanw eczcaw mips nott mae sig werth
alt.atheism	objective values scientific accuracy years can that christian morality article jzv dcs dcs tommy kelly wrote article qjahh mrs horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes science real world basis values not round you you values mean used and you science that you equate real world science recognition patterns perceptions universe and making qualitative and quantitative predictions perceptions science process modeling real world based commonly agreed interpretations observations perceptions nothing values can values not experience not and values can refer meaning for example computer science true and false science based commonly agreed values interpretation observations science can result reinterpretation values objective values set values proposer believes applicable values underlaying science not objective since never fully agreed and change time values newtonian physic quantum mechanics steve lang slang sling slink slick slack shack shank thick
alt.atheism	victims good fight article tekig pen tek naren tekig pen tek naren bala writes list killings name religion iran iraq war civil war sudan riots india pakistan massacares bangladesh inquistions america million crusades massacre jews wwii million massacre inferior races wwii million communist purges million socialism religion catholics protestants quite imagine recent goings bombay iodia area disease introduced brazilian oher tribes million naren desert brat john mcvey elc eltnc eng whyalla uni australia levels unisa edu darwin for replies mail whjjm whyalla unisa edu disclaimer unisa hates opinions doesn make rainbow beautiful that god name smack understand refractive mechanisms that chance for produce jim perry perry dsinc alice chains
alt.atheism	keith schneider stealth poster article innpit gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes you threatened motto people that use time somone writes and describing norm infact inforcing that norm programmed not for motto dangerous tells world that true american god fearing and puts not fear gods doesn make dangerous good job existing your currency keith desert brat john mcvey elc eltnc eng whyalla uni australia levels unisa edu darwin for replies mail whjjm whyalla unisa edu disclaimer unisa hates opinions doesn make rainbow beautiful that god name smack understand refractive mechanisms that chance for produce jim perry perry dsinc alice chains
alt.atheism	mary fault andrew cmu edu patrick leger writes you occurred today that this christian thing can blamed solely mary married joseph gets knocked you joe will finds getting mary comes this ridiculous story god making pregnant nice attempt chris verrry close you missed conspiracy step joseph knew knocked couldn that mary prego that wouldn for popularity local circles happened that feeling guilty feeling embarrassed and decided improve images downfall for clever come gained respect for couple joseph and mary receive praise paid jesus dave buckminster fuller that keeper nicknames
alt.atheism	origins bible adda wainwright writes stated that thousands bibles discovered point time syllable perfect this meant that copy time time quoted acquaintance approximately years death jesus this complete nonsense codification bible wingate peace god peace strife closed sod mangoe umd edu brothers pray for thing tove mangoe marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie apologize for long delay getting response this posted working reduced hours past couple weeks had son born day umar article posted btw respond couple days turns that coincidental news software rearrangement caused postings this site silently disappear into world this revision that original response article nrl navy mil khan itd itd nrl navy mil umar khan writes article finnm dsi dsinc perry dsinc jim perry writes functional illiterate absolutely conception nature such thing this response claim that rushdie made false statements life mohammed disclaimer fiction line fact and fiction stand this distinction fiction and false statements not for writing satanic verses for people accepted propagandistic version contained that book find single muslim convinced that read book initially claimed shown knowledge book superficial newsweek story impart and made factual misstatements events book you things this you accuse people making hominem arguments repeat previous postings read tsv cover cover had not that claim sweeping you made factual misstatements events book raised past islam clearer view thread root rushdie islamic law thread statement not that you had not read book that you had not convinced that you inter alia had you want defend your position produce evidence and respond evidence posted you not statement not directly aimed you broadly number muslim posters repeated propaganda book indicating that haven read and narrowly gregg jaeger subsequently admitted that hadn fact read book vindicating skepticism that case things your case statements you made book clearer view posting challenged not interpretation statements fact for instance rushdie depicts women respected family islam whores and your claim had not this that you read cover cover willing resolve this disagreement critical interpretation you support your end responding criticism doubt ability muslim this book highlighter finding passages personal offense you upheld view that tsv intended attack islam and muslims this view defended mere assertion you want hard amicable and rational and club defending honest opinion that this book not construed calculated insulting attack islam and parallel opinion that criticism book baseless propaganda supported statements and critical interpretationa context quotes book and rushdie essays correspondents you jim perry perry dsinc decision support inc matthews opinions for nominal fee can
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics chris faehl writes atheists not mock concept god shocked that theists fallen such low level that god you accuse atheists part conspiracy evidence rule condescending population large theists will not win people your faith anytime ruins your credibility fallacy atheism faith hear faq beckoning once wonderful rule deleted you correct you didn conspiracy correction hard atheism faith rule don mix apples oranges can you that extermination mongols worse stalin khan conquered people unsympathetic that atrocious stalin killed millions people loved and worshipped and atheist state can worse that will not explain this you stalin nothing name atheism whethe not atheist irrelevant grip man stalin example brought not indictment atheism another example people will kill name that fit for occasion rule you rely evidence state waiting opposed relying bunch black ink crumbling paper atheism prove nothing you burden dogmatic religious bullshit provide evidence you referring and long you wait hard atheism nothing prove justify that god not exist faq etc guess justifications compelling aren people flocking hard atheism not and won for will discourage people hard atheism pointing sources reliable statements hard atheism second makes you defending religion recognizing hard atheism for faith and referring reader post evidence that poster stated that relied not theist can safely that definition theists not arrogant since boast god gods principle hard theists necessarily arrogant such and such absolutely unalterably true dogma true not prepared issue blanket statements indicting theists arrogance you wont atheists bzzt virtue your innocent pronoun you issued blanket statement will apologize qualifying original statement hard atheist place atheist you call john baptist arrogant boasted greater that christians today that arrogant not worthy misinformed your sophisticated put theists your misinformation shines bake timmons iii nothing higher stronger wholesome and life good memory alyosha brothers karamazov dostoevsky
alt.atheism	islam and scientific predictions genocide caused atheism dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes and god almighty created night and day and sun and earth celetial bodies swim each rounded holy quran hmm this agrees ptolemic system earth centre planets orbitting round copernicus and gallileo wrong you haven read carefully you you will that doesn circling not moving circles oops words not words qur evidence that rounded general sense wishy washy statements not scientific note that celestial bodies verse interpolation brackets translator incorrect imho interpretation maurice bucaille translation studied arabic for research into qur and science this verse god created night day sun and moon each travelling orbit motion qur positive aspect this verse noted maurice bucaille that geocentrism commonly accepted notion time and for long time notion geocentrism this verse anywhere qur fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	islam and scientific predictions genocide caused atheism cindy apr solan solan unit cindy solan solan unit cynthia kandolf writes quotes deleted interest saving bit bandwidth will copy koran quote and god almighty created night and day and sun and earth celetial bodies swim each rounded holy quran pointed this quote makes claim orbits idea that orbited had held true for years koran written fact that orbits surprising insight concern word rounded two interpretations this word means circle this wrong believed true time koran written words not describing neighborhood universe exists thought time this implications hope obvious means rounded shape include elipses geometrical form describes orbits planets this not great insight shapes you nature even approach square rectangle human created shapes nature rounded degree even flat earthers don claim earth rectangle children draw imaginary animals seldom give rectangular bodies instinctively recognize that nature produces rounded shapes assumption that orbits planets round takes divine inspiration good remember that translation extent interpretation you point below back original arabic verses relevant nature prefer use maurice bucaille translations book bible qur and science for general translations literal maurice bucaille translates portion verse you addressing each travelling orbit motion note that celestial bodies translation quoted you translator interpolation not existent original arabic included brackets perhaps can read original arabic can eliminate interpretations rate exactly impressive you verses isn that remarkable bucaille surgeon that thinks significant that verse contains geocentric ideas even geocentrism rage century and this for rest qur verses nature remember reading once fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	societally acceptable behavior article qgm news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes question for basis morality moral ethical behavior societally acceptable behavior disagree society thinks irrelevant individual decides that important society this fairly obvious define acceptable generally feel idiotic policy can legal moral position thinking for ourselves mac michael cobb and won raise taxes middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu taxes and spending cuts billion dollar deficits
alt.atheism	origins bible article apr nott eczcaw mips nott wainwright writes argument origins bible theist acquaintance stated that thousands bibles discovered point time syllable perfect this meant that copy time time quoted acquaintace approximately years death jesus adda bible scholars agree that copy each book time time author wrote works this time period and earlier that exists today copies cutting crap god wrote answer oldest surviving copy testament parts books scraps that date mid second century complete books letters etc middle century complete collection testament dates early century this period writings early church fathers leaders quoted scriptures writings truth acquaintance statements you mean that discovered thousands bibles perfect copies dating last part century you mean that thousands early manuscripts dates not letter perfect and that probable text can reconstructed documents and that earliest original autographs lost written starting shortly bible originate original authors call matthew mark luke john peter paul james and not identified long piece string long you make adda regards jim
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics james hogan writes timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons writes jim hogan quips summary jim stuff jim afraid you missed point you admit that atheists lot sleeve you suspected nah will encourage people learn atheism atheists sleeves suspected quite meager you want send your address learn your faith faith yeah you expect people read faq etc and accept hard atheism you leap faith jimmy your logic runs steam fine people shoot foot and mock idea god hope you understand jim understand you for providing healthy sarcasm that dispelled sympathies had for your faith bake real glad you detected sarcasm angle bummin that won getting your sympathy your inclined sympathy for faith you religion newsgroups careful make whispering your ear delusional jim can pity you jim and that you feelings denial faith you pretend that will end happily you start newsgroup alt atheist hard you won bummin good job jim bye bake slim jim deleted bye bake bye bye bye bye big jim don forget your flintstone chewables bake timmons iii nothing higher stronger wholesome and life good memory alyosha brothers karamazov dostoevsky
alt.atheism	studies book mormon don mormons and want independent studies book mormon don buy official story gold original heaven haven read book mormon work learning biblical hebrew will comment results study style vocabulary place names internal consistency and for example evidence for writer multiple writers mention events places historical persons discovered archeologist collen andres grino brandt casilla santiago agrino enkidu mic chile hay mas realidad que realidad razon profeta
alt.atheism	gulf war and peace niks article apr bmerh bnr dgraham bmers bnr douglas graham writes wait minute you never play chamberlain since playing chamberlain east timor concerned wouldn that lead you that your argument irrelevant and had nothing gulf war your idea perhaps rest world bombed missiled washington invaded nicaragua grenada panama vietnam mexico hawaii number places wait minute doug you informed that never invaded nicaragua liberated grenada cubans protect citizens and prevent completion strategic air strip panama invaded true twice this century vietnam invited government vietnam guess invaded saudi arabia gulf war mexico invaded mexico times once this century missiles for shoot that time hawaii liberated spain you mean word invaded sort military action cross border you invaded carries connotation attacking autonomous nation nation invades virgin islands invading virgin islands this point view your score falls mexico panama peace nik that doesn masturbate guns ammo supposed bad peace nik believes peace costs words person supported giving hitler not austria and czechoslakia poland averted war and hitler wipe jews slavs and political dissidents areas controlled long left rest alone supposed bad peace nik you depends your values you life liberty peace freedom guess not liberty and freedom mean you life you die fighting for liberty live tyrant heel bad peace nik problem peace niks not bad and unconscionable not argument problem peace nik held ideals and stayed conflicts issues dealing national defense not willing legitimately hold point view militate and times resort violence name peace rank hypocrisy stop warmongers willing stand and defend freedoms tyrants and realize that requires strong national defense time soapbox doug graham dgraham bnr opinions regards jim
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics nancyo fraser sfu nancy patricia connor writes timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons writes rule don mix apples oranges can you that extermination mongols worse stalin khan conquered people unsympathetic that atrocious stalin killed millions people loved and worshipped and atheist state can worse that you and david koresh claimed christian yup can hear millions cheering for josef stalin eat your heart bake timmons iii nothing higher stronger wholesome and life good memory alyosha brothers karamazov dostoevsky
alt.atheism	risen lord and savior david keresh risen alive spread word sole intention learning fly
alt.atheism	idle questions for fellow atheists acooper mac macalstr edu wrote atheists care speculate face world atheists majority minority group population thinking this and since cut ties christianity surprising note that large majority people finland apatheists even population members lutheran church finland religious people minority that people god case people not want seek truth fall prey pascal wager poor arguments small minority reads bible regularly majority doesn care believes doesn people don beliefs change lifestyle want virtual gate open christian that not born spirit this not disturb religion not afraid society true atheist majority impossible dream religions strong appeal people nevertheless promise life death humans eagerly listen coupled threats eternal torture and idea that morality constant scrutiny cosmic cop people poison smile pretend swallow and unconsciously hope god wouldn notice atheists stance and accor higher thinking theistic thinking typical selfish argument that lines thinking evolved inherent motivation not intrinsically qualitatively measuring stick drawn and cannot assign system beliefs core alternative apply periphery expresses selfishness logic and reason valued claim that atheistic thinking higher theistic exposition theists make unnecessary assumptions good reasons gods leap faith revelation logic and reasoning this questions bears resemblance long disputed problem science mathematics works strong deep structuralists atkins proposed that perhaps mathematics usefulness criterion petri petri pihko kem pmp mathematics truth pihatie finou oulu physics rule oulu kempmp game finland phoenix oulu chemistry game
alt.atheism	societally acceptable behavior article asv news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes qvabj horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes article qgm news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes making wrong assumption for basis morals come question idea that heard that morals come societally mandated aspect morality societal morality necessarily crude and broad brush stuff attempts deal that society and enthusiastic individual morality thing includes societal mores society trouble stronger for example people vegetarian eating meat perfectly legal question for basis morality moral ethical behavior societally acceptable behavior society depends society doesn point irrelevant answer society make rules that question society make rules that another don claim answers don ireland and things system principle define acceptable depends this comes question ideally don consensus imo legal moral position adopting default position that people moral decisions society business can put people jail can condemn societies sometimes that hard trick recognise and equally importantly isn and interfering interfere imo isn that interference jail and force kinds and degrees and effective you derive interfere difficult question sort liar paradox force for freedom justification that people freedom shouldn object freedom paradox doesn arise don actively freedom introduction permissible interference problem that can people agree that level interference for justice system can even define that term consensus guess you situation law honour forbids come admit don understand that statement mean that and such legal and such immoral law lets you you don eating meat for example frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	islamic genocide psilink robert knowles psilink writes date apr gmt frank dwyer frank article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes borrowing your post rice psilink robert knowles psilink writes you that democracy driving force massacres east timor odd that worlds massacres occur religious lines independently claims democratic form government ireland and northern ireland considered democracies you attribute problems democracy even democracies motivates religion democracy rice pointing fallacy assertion that islam evil claim follow evil not asserting that democracy massacres read that and pointing that use indonesians killing east timorese result democracy bit weak democracy not motivation for indonesia remember east timor portguese territory forcibly annexed indonesia last heard indonesians died east timor part indonesia portuguese colony strong catholic influence east timor recall bit odd that another war fought people happen religions purely coincidental guess real motivation vote and make democracy work indonesia pointed secession movement aceh brutally dealt past indonesian government harshly secessionist movements evidence appears that indonesian government dealt harshly secession movements that head indonesian armed forces for long time benny murdani christian indonesia heavy handed east timor for long time even murdani head armed forces people make indonesian government general motivated national interests not religious fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics robert knowles writes atheists time hands apologize didn bother reading faq and fired imprecise flame that inexcusable nickname bake flamethrower timmons robert koresh fetesh sic knowles good you weren koresh compound noon today chance you remember koresh dried for your sins and pass that beef jerky umm umm wasn can rely you posted you fetishes for beef jerky and david koresh bake timmons iii nothing higher stronger wholesome and life good memory alyosha brothers karamazov dostoevsky
alt.atheism	christian morality article prca news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb vice ico tek bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes article jts news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes wrong god free time correct mistake that continues not supposedly proclaiming undying love for eternal soul speaks volumes volumes that speaks fact that leaves your choices you leaves choices reason odd story alleged son getting killed for and past thousand years leaving texts passed centuries meddling meaning and even wording this passing and interpretation coming vested interest not allowing possibility that not ultimate truth talking directly big god make time for creations loves give each words direct conversation busy unquestionably miraculous works and speaks volumes volumes that never chance meet guy and chat
alt.atheism	death penalty gulf war article rusnews mantis mathew mathew mantis writes jbrown batman bmd trw writes article rusnews mantis mathew mathew mantis writes fortunately thinking folks your good power and deemed acceptable slaughter tens even hundreds thousands iraqis order liberate oil hkuwait won war hurrah hurrah number civilian iraqi deaths exaggerated and exploited for anti war emotionalism liberal news media facts that iraqis died gulf war civilians war comparable size this century analyze this claim size war defined number participants geographical area number countries involved number casualties size armies duration numbers casualties absolute and percentage involved geographical area and numbers countries measures size this case relevant statistic number combatants total troops compared total casualties total civilian population affected geographical area comparable wars talking vietnam and korea make good comparisons liberal news media talking western news general american mass media cbs nbc abc etc general tone news war poor poor iraqis precisely this cruise missile blew this building bits this due short duration coupled precise surgical bombing techniques technically recently suspect that medical advances agree innocent people died blanket bombing don hear you bemoaning perhaps topic hasn cropped you want opinion that blanket bombing german cities end world war two appalling act wholesale slaughter this country committed centuries bomber harris hero mine perhaps and atomic bomb mistake that easy enlightened viewpoint back war and germany and japan had squashed million british had died hundreds thousands french couple hundread thousand americans and millions russians not mention million jews poles and people slavic descent german concentration camps things considered fire bombings and atomic bomb essential and justified bringing war quick end avoid even greater allied losses for don regret war never exact science smart bombs exact smaller percentage civilian casualties sometimes mistakes made targets misidentified innocents die that war entrenched political rulers operating selfish interests regard for lives people that war and people suffer reason depose entrenched political rulers operating selfish interests you mean that this applies allies fuss kuwait and not east timor bosnia even tibet iraq bad selling stuff couple weeks started bombing make claim effort justify misguided foreign policy west war evident that west america misjudged hussein drastically once hussein invaded kuwait and threatened militarily corner significant portion world oil supply had stopped war prevented judicious and concerted effort part west hussein invaded kuwait hussein responsible for decision invade and once strong response west required mathew your sarcasm noted you completely base you come sounding complete peace nik idiot feel that not your intent your intent sound loving christian you aren good job not loving hussein hitler gobble nearby countries and continue mass slaughter peoples dominion stopping hussein loving thing for people involved once set mind military conquest iraqi war wrong that appeasement worked war even mentioned appeasement and makes you situation even remotely analogous world war two mentioned hadn intervened allowing hussein kuwait appeasement precisely lessons world learned that motivated western alliance war letting hitler austria and czechoslavkia not stop happening and letting hussein kuwait not stopped eventual gulf war protect saudi arabia guess shouldn fought innocent german civilians killed dresden and hamburg germans human you unfortunate that hitler grandiose quest for thousand year reich consequences stemmed that tyrants hussein stopped kind don understand diplomacy understand point gun regret that bush wimped and didn military roll into baghdad hussein power and iraqi people sacrifice not mention americans died for naught forward hearing your incisive comments east timor and tibet and for poor poor rodney king you stop and jury trial brought back verdict not guilty things thought hmm awful lot white people that jury policemen trial not rodney king and american law deserved jury peers had black officers involved black jurors this point allegedly racial motivations shallow foaming mouth for blood policemen looked video tape jury looked evidence evidence you and not bunch policemen beating lying defenceless ground hard imagine this evidence hard imagine argument incredulity gained acceptance revered author constructing logical argument can expect another revision kidding wonderful evidence seemingly secret not you king deserved good beating and live happily admit that this prosecution defense talking cannot conclude due silence principals law this country intended protect rights accused whether criminals cops not found guilty reasonable doubt guilt and jury position assess evidence and render verdict fine finding hard imagine reasonable doubt this case mean cops beating lying defenceless ground your explanation mass hallucination orbital mind control lasers faked video footage that excessive force involved and frankly original not guilty verdict baffled learned that prosecution case not convict charge excessive force simple assault won conviction charge aggravated assault intent inflict bodily harm charge news commentators akin attempted murder california law based prosecution asking for evident that jury decided that officers not guilty note not not guilty wrong not guilty aggravated assault intent inflicting bodily harm seeds prosecutions defeat overconfidence obtaining verdict such that for extreme charge facts news commentators presented true feel not guilty verdict reasonable mathew thou shalt not kill thou hast pretty good reason for killing case thou shalt kill and kill gets cannot helped jim brown bible for loving christians mathew quote pretty funny monty python fan you kind that vein oversimplifying moral argument can make contradictory you that regards jim loving christian
alt.atheism	free moral agency article pxqs darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner dean kaflowitz decay cbnewsj att wrote interested original notion you discussing moral free agency that can god punish person for not believing that person nature and not for that person deny reason tells that god you letting atheist mythology confuse you issue webster myth traditional legendary story belief truth accepted uncritically that qualify almost oxymoronic amusing instance found that atheists hold almost atheist views accepted uncritically that legend explain basic truths myths don meet criterions divine justice fundamental doctrines christianity man sinned that time you accuse referencing mythology you procede launch your xtian mythology this time meeting requirements myth salvation idea punishment based proposition that instinctively that god exists creator and not that god exists you fallacy nothing terribly difficult this and biblically literate christian controversy and that makes true holding bible rules controversy read faq you read you missed read not bad suggestion for read this pretend not and means atheists claim that not god exists and don contradict bible that authority bible claim repeat wrote for sake getting across you trust bible your trusting doesn make credible bible that that reason doubt bible not your alleged god alleged existance refuted species wide condemnation justified that claim that evidence for existence god that will unknown deliberately ignore bible ignorance excuse don ignore bible bible universally accepted bible not proof god proof that people thought that god prove even that writing series fiction short stories case dionetics assuming writers believed thing possibly prove that believed and that ignoring problem whether not interpretations and biblical philosophers correct people never heard bible read faq freedom you free ignore god you free ignore gravity and consequences inevitable and cases that atheist can accept evidence means bzzt wrong answer gravity directly doesn stop exerting direct and rationally undeniable influence you ignore god hand doesn generally show supermarket tabloids god doesn exert rationally undeniable influence gravity obvious gods aren secondly human reason comforatble concept god that intrinsic nature human reason comes back question god generation and human reason hasn come back existance god come back existance god words doesn generally come back xtian god comes back whether god and oriental philosophic history generally doesn pop idea god question natural forces and world wide view human nature makes universe and force control natural tendancy god exists religious wishful thinking this make point that christianity eminently reasonable that divine justice and human nature atheists whether you agree not xtianity reasonable religions and reasonableness doesn merit eminence divine justice divinity not atheists things human nature second whether atheists correct not you not correct human nature you basing your views completely eurocentric approach world you attempt sum humanity andrew
alt.atheism	genocide caused theism evidence article qibo horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes absence convincing evidence that theist fanatics dangerous atheist fanatics continue wary fanatics stripe that agnostic fanatics dangerous lot fair point mentioned theists and atheists left agnostics mea culpa light that you theist pass agnostic remember your post your daughter singing chrismas carols and your feelings you show marginal honesty and answer questions you left open you ceased respond last time benedikt
alt.atheism	islamic genocide article horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes deletion people can imagine dying for capitalism can imagine dying for democracy lot will die for lord and savior jesus christ died cross for sins motivation pure and simple cites for this nonsense people will die for mom patriotism freedom money kids fast cars and swimming pools night kim basinger mel gibson and things evil read history book fred and religions command commit genocide nothing religion religions that not living standards religion worse dieing coincidence assume ist part absolute morality you describe theism strongly correlated irrational belief absolutes irrational belief absolutes strongly correlated fanatism benedikt
alt.atheism	 article pepper east sun geoff east sun geoff arnold sun bos coast top writes your posting provoked into checking save file for memorable posts captured ken arromdee feb subject atheist that article your question article average articles day for last years noted current posting rate such that kill file depressing large posting saved early days articles notables hey interesting read posts regularly posts alt atheism loren sunlight llnl gov loren petrich jchrist nazareth israel rel jesus christ nazareth mrc tomobiki cho cac washington edu mark crispin perry apollo jim perry lippard uavax ccit arizona edu james lippard minsky media mit edu marvin minsky interesting bunch hee hee hee ain promises that made can broken john laws man honor word
alt.atheism	cruel political atheists article mdinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes this thread started discussion whether not death penalty constituted cruel punishment forbidden constitution didn meant cruel you supreme court and makes sense refer constitution quite silent meaning word cruel spent quite bit time wording constitution picked words meanings implied intent looked dictionary define word isn this sufficient question founding fathers cruel and unusual punishment hanging hanging slowing strangled painful physically and psychologicall imagine firing squad note not clean die back days etc considered cruel your definition allowed constitution founding fathers promises that made can broken john laws man honor word
alt.atheism	political atheists article ajinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes chimps system live social groups laws dictating undesired behavior promises that made can broken john laws man honor word
alt.atheism	thoughts article bissda saturn wwc edu bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes arguements summing book whether jesus god not you don listen perspective for gain listening read faq watch list weeks and come back and read books matter order broaden your view benedikt
alt.atheism	apostles tortured article qiu innpq srvr engin umich edu ingles engin umich edu ray ingles writes evidence for resurrection claimed that disciples tortured death for beliefs and not renounce claim that jesus had come back dead skimmed acts and such and found reference this happening stephen this apparently widely held belief come evidence bible evidence bible haven found early authors and legends important sources can found martyriologia catholic church makes grimms exact science benedikt
alt.atheism	political atheists article qlfd inn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes chimps system live social groups laws dictating undesired behavior such laws quotation marks enclose laws not such rules even instinctive unwritten etc surely sort random chance lead chimp society into chaos system refered moral system you havn shown reason that chimps moral system you redefine promises that made can broken john laws man honor word
alt.atheism	 article pepper east sun geoff east sun writes your posting provoked into checking save file for memorable posts captured ken arromdee feb subject atheist that article your question article average articles day for last years noted current posting rate such that kill file depressing large posting saved early days articles notables loren sunlight llnl gov loren petrich jchrist nazareth israel rel jesus christ nazareth mrc tomobiki cho cac washington edu mark crispin perry apollo jim perry lippard uavax ccit arizona edu james lippard minsky media mit edu marvin minsky interesting bunch didn you hear address changed can reached address dkoresh branch davidian compound waco last posting alt messianic jim god dead and actor plays part sting words fear will find place your heart history voice reason faith curse will teach freedom past things can worse nothing
alt.atheism	free moral agency you that physical adam and eve and that humans direct decendents two human beings cain and wives couldn sisters didn daughters humans genesis and days adam begat seth hundred years and begat sons and daughters felicitations chris stuart
alt.atheism	death penalty gulf war long article rusnews mantis mathew mathew mantis writes jbrown batman bmd trw writes article rusnews mantis mathew mathew mantis writes liberal news media talking western news general american mass media cbs nbc abc etc general tone news war poor poor iraqis precisely this cruise missile blew this building bits odd suffering iraqi civilians end war and confined remaining quality newspapers true news media entranced gizmos military not mention taped video transmissions missiles zeroed targets and bunker full civilians hit changed tone that didn stomach for reality war that innocent people die and maimed warfare pro gulf war long nice and clean smart missiles dropping military hqs not pictures dead dying and maimed civilians started cropping naive hypocrites innocent people died blanket bombing don hear you bemoaning discussion blanket bombing and bombs deleted things considered fire bombings and atomic bomb essential and justified bringing war quick end avoid even greater allied losses militarily justified your comments below that you understood this meaning morally justified apologize evidence that america knew japan surrender hiroshima nagasaki that another lie peddled liberal media conspiracy wondered this thought that bomb dropped japan island fortress truk good inpenatrable military target second bomb held back for use industrial center digress heard that found evidence war btw that japan surrender bomb military junta won moderates and rejected ulimatum second bomb dropped unfortunate imo for don regret nuke jap for jesus don regret fact that sometimes military decisions made affect lives innocent people regret circumstances make decisions and regret suffering caused decisions fuss kuwait and not east timor bosnia even tibet iraq bad selling stuff couple weeks started bombing make claim effort justify misguided foreign policy west war evident that west america misjudged hussein drastically once hussein invaded kuwait and threatened militarily corner significant portion world oil supply had stopped can overlook chemical weapons thousands people threatens your drive huge gas guzzling car man gotta fact that situations existed that prompted and allied action back water country back water country wouldn intervene not that don care can world policman coup had occured kuwait invasion wouldn acted not imminent danger perceived saudi arabia combination two unprovoked invasion genocidal tyrant and potential danger west oil interests caused action moved paragraph hadn intervened allowing hussein kuwait appeasement you hear advocate such action you setting strawman not setting strawman you want argue war logical alternative hussein kuwait diplomatic alternatives including sanctions ineffective guess shouldn fought innocent german civilians killed dresden and hamburg germans human you unfortunate that hitler grandiose quest for thousand year reich consequences stemmed that translation asking for sense had idea end hitler lead nation didn support hitler dreams conquest not democratically voted for policies nsdap elections and that last chance german people vote matter suffered rest this bother you world full evil and circumstances not perfect innocents suffer due wrongful actions regretable that perfect solutions forward hearing your incisive comments east timor and tibet people east timor killed dictatorship that invaded country hell even western journalists killed this happening gulf war didn send bombers east timor aren sending bombers not saviors world can police each and country that decides destruct invade another strategic position relief tibet east timor places that paragraph moved your intent sound loving christian you aren good job not loving hussein hitler gobble nearby countries and continue mass slaughter peoples dominion stopping hussein loving thing for people involved once set mind military conquest chinese government policy mandatory abortion and sterilization tibetans tibetan people rounded tortured and executed amnesty international recently reported that torture widespread china aren stopping fact actively sucking trading freely stop and support for not agree present policy sucking you put agree that deplorable and for poor poor rodney king you stop and jury trial brought back verdict not guilty things thought hmm awful lot white people that jury policemen trial not rodney king erm surely irrelevant trial juries supposed represent cross section population supposed reflect population locale trial held this crime committed party can convince judge change venue order not expert california law even law that this system set you can criticize system not unfounded allegations racial prejudice thrown and american law deserved jury peers you that black people not peers white people not point that fact that blacks jury and that rodney king black totally irrelevant this point allegedly racial motivations shallow this idea people jury people stupid nuremburg trials had jury made nazis germans perhaps peers doesn mean thing murderers judge murderers means people station life position understand defendent motivation foaming mouth for blood policemen looked video tape jury looked evidence evidence you and not bunch policemen beating lying defenceless ground hard imagine this evidence hard imagine argument incredulity gained acceptance revered author constructing logical argument not talking logical argument talking court law faq points fallacious arguments not viewed fallacies court law granted you this reasoning part your logical argument this discussion this not court law facts news commentators presented true feel not guilty verdict reasonable you not talking earlier bias liberal media conspiracy media not totally monolithic even prevailing liberal bias programs such macneil lehrer news hour give balanced and fair reporting news even conservative sources you hurrah for rush btw never used word conspiracy don accept evidence theories that pervading liberal conspiracy attempting news sources thou shalt not kill thou hast pretty good reason for killing case thou shalt kill and kill gets cannot helped jim brown bible for loving christians mathew quote pretty funny monty python fan you kind that vein oversimplifying moral argument can make contradictory you that atheist arguing killing innocent people you supposed christian arguing that kill innocent people long you guilty didn that good thing kill innocent people end don live perfect world and perfect solutions resist tyranny innocent people sides suffer and die didn unfortunate sometimes moral relativist arguing that saturation bombing german cities end world war can evil and unnecessary act agree that evil sense that caused pain and suffering not that unnecessary you that conclusion can arrived evaluating factors involved and perhaps unnecessary that doesn mean that had make decision bomb didn rarely can full consequences action making decision time ahead don assume that feel bombing morally justified don don condemn had make difficult decision difficult circumstances you criticised moral relativism past arguing that position judge morality allied actions end war you not such position you moral relativist absolutist position judge defer judgment you arguing that actions assessed context time and that moral not moral wrong moral making decisions bring quick end war simply refuse condemn for decision your christian love your absolute morality quick you discard suits you ivan stang jesus puke day will stand jesus and give account word and action even this discourse this forum understand full ramifications that and prepared don that you can make claim mathew and btw reason brought blanket bombing germany you bemoaning iraqi civilian casualties deplorable blanket bombing instituted bombing wasn accurate hit industrial military targets decisive method that time gulf war precision bombing norm point make big stink relatively civilian casualties that resulted spite precision bombing civilians proportionately and quantitatively died blanket bombing even precision bombing mistakes happen and civilians suffer civilians suffered this war iany history iraqi civilians lives minimal interference allied air raids stories hundreds thousands iraqi civilian dead plain bunk bunk lost servicemen years and majority directly involved fighting expected swallow that hundreds thousands civilian iraqis died war lasting months and allies precise bombs created that hogwash hundreds thousands iraqi civilians died due actions hussein people not due allied bombing regards jim
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics maddi hausmann chirps timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons writes you reasonable guy not honest and include sentence that honest ended that swear that nice hmmmm recognize warning signs alternating polite and rude coming into newsgroup huge chip shoulder calls people names and makes nice whirrr click whirrr you forgot equality whirrr click whirrr below whirr click whirr frank dwyer contained that shell pop stack determine whirr click whirr killfile keith allen schneider frank closet theist dwyer maddi mad sound geek hausmann whirrr click whirrr bake timmons iii nothing higher stronger wholesome and life good memory alyosha brothers karamazov dostoevsky
alt.atheism	islam and scientific predictions genocide caused atheism article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes positive aspect this verse noted maurice bucaille that geocentrism commonly accepted notion time and for long time notion geocentrism this verse anywhere qur notion heliocentric even galacticentric sole intention learning fly
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and anarchists mccullou whipple wisc edu writes turn back and reread your post you attack atheism and that agnosticism wasn funny atheism that imply that you agnostic weak atheist people post such inflammatory remarks theists reasonable assumption you not state rule condescending population large theists will not win people your faith anytime ruins your credibility condescending population large stating that happened true for long time couldn that people believed this god idea alien concept not win people faith you put faith religion issue had attitude never even occurred atheist default guess you common form condescending rational versus irrational attitude once accepted assumption that god and faiths irrational simply assumption contradict your assumption lack consistency you faith positive belief that god not exist closed logical argument rational people problems that logic you soft atheist for flamage line atheists haveing sleeves imply that reading clipper project and paranoia seeped clipper project btw rule don mix apples oranges can you that extermination mongols worse stalin khan conquered people unsympathetic that atrocious stalin killed millions people loved and worshipped and atheist state can worse that rulers similar things past stalin plenty documentation afix blame evidence that early european rulers ruled iron fist stalin you threw numbers and sick hearing stalin example example doesn apply you managed angry your post appeared attack forms atheism appeared attack atheism general point that mass killing happens for sorts reasons people will hate will and will wave flag justify cross hammer sickle stalin example important not widely unappreciated era that people want forget people love and ideas even that had wrought evidence referring lack evidence negative evidence claim pink crows never pink crow that doesn mean couldn exist this person claims that pink crows even admits hasn capture photo find etc sense that evidence not existence pink crows that evidence suppossed evidence for deity show flawed and doesn show theists want show and pink crows unicorns elves arguments world will not sway people for simply not accept analogy big reasons that people want this life you can pretend that don want this for can accept and even want sometimes and nothing unique this example people want god can love truth proven logically god gods principle hard theists necessarily arrogant makes sense arrogant make such claim previous refutation stands and another net john baptist boasted jesus people find hard that behavior arrogant christians boast this not necessarily arrogance arrogant christians doctors and teachers technically you person originally made claim arrogant jesus for instance you talking atheism strong atheism you talking weak atheism refuse such claim atheism lack belief used good occam razor make final rejection deity that things even present hypothesises equal fasion find theist argument not plausible speak strong atheism find that evidence supporting faith subjective evidence supporting love truth subjective answered that apologize for you stated incorrect assumption your theism nothing that you agnostic that you another newbie christian net cheap shots apology bake timmons iii nothing higher stronger wholesome and life good memory alyosha brothers karamazov dostoevsky
alt.atheism	you god court article tan psuvm psu edu andrew newell tan psuvm psu edu writes article apr daffy wisc edu mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough article monack helium monack helium gas uug arizona edu david monack writes another issue that request not required recite god part oath theistic jury prejudiced your testimony even atheism not relevant case recommended procedure for requesting alternate oath affirmation dave for follow respond server dropped weeks worth news couldn you asked swear you god and you jesus allah vishnu zues odin specific don obnoxious humbly quitely sit back and watch fun james felder sverdrup technology inc phone nasa lewis research center cleveland ohio email jfelder lerc nasa gov people drink fountain knowledge people gargle
alt.atheism	thoughts article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes deletia wrt pathetic jee zus posting bissel hope you not flame give coutesy you hasn extended courtesy you shown don pie tammy respect your beliefs you don stamp into scorn for posters sole purpose appears evangelize tammy
alt.atheism	apostles tortured traditions church hold that apostles meaning surviving disciples matthias barnabas and paul martyred for john tradition understood read early church writings bible and heteroorthodox scriptures wingate peace god peace strife closed sod mangoe umd edu brothers pray for thing tove mangoe marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	thoughts article saturn wwc edu bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes want start and that christian makes sense you read tony campollo book liar lunatic real thing title writes book part effort destroy christianity process christian sounds you part conspiracy organization belong name book that jesus liar crazy modern day koresh logic alert artificial trifercation explainations that never existed good points made this group that not impossible that amalgam number myths mithra comes mind reasons wouldn liar follows die for lie wouldn people liar people gathered and gathered hearing had healed call fool heal people logic alert argument incredulity hard for you this doesn mean that isn true liars can pursuasive koresh that you site followers that don fake and shown that willing die not giving getting shot koresh shown that will die for believes healing rememer healing that attributed not consistent gospels healing that not that faith healers can pull today that early gospels weren that compeling stories bigger appeal niether lunatic entire nation drawn crazy doubtful fact rediculous for example drawn david koresh fool logical people this since wasn liar lunatic real thing not existed number things that logical pitfall that use flawed logic this fall into bifurcations tri quad etc that valid proceeding steps person shows conclusively that alternatives that once agrees that set arguments alternatives can presentent and likely true can deduced excluding alternatives can shown that set not inclusive conclusions bases incomplete set invalid even true choice original choices valid alternative conclusion that real mccoy isn two alternative longer valid things note fulfilled loads prophecies psalms isaiah and hrs alone this betrayal and crucifixion don bible this moment time write will use rabbi knew prophecies wouldn great shakes make list actions that fullfill prophecy compeling set clear and explicit prophecies and had absolutely knowledge fullfilled don people understand christian not lot churches life and total sacrafice for god sake loved die and save hey can god inspires turn lives that tuff and people don want real christian for strong persevere weight lifting guitar playing drums takes time don rush day christianity your life not church once week helping poor people once box into time units such work this time sports social life god boxes and carried into boxes that created for ourselves agree you buys into this load mythology and that total life respect for xians that don myth true true entirity picking and choosing that lot leaves bad taste mouth jim james felder sverdrup technology inc phone nasa lewis research center cleveland ohio email jfelder lerc nasa gov people drink fountain knowledge people gargle
alt.atheism	thoughts fri apr gmt healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy trh hope you not flame give coutesy you trh you courteous and received courtesy return this person posted worst arguments made pro christian people jesuits laugh face presented such argument ignore fact that not true trilemma for moment nice word maddi original real word and concentrate liar lunatic part argument claims that follow liar alone thousands people ron hubbard not liar and con artist thousands people follow dianetics and scientology baker and swaggert televangelists lie time number follower for lunatics example hitler insane advisors thought had country entralled and close ruling europe germans gave lives for this day followers amazed that people use this argument wrong mccreary edm twisto compaq not for laughter tao
alt.atheism	thoughts christians apr gmt bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine article ofnwyg voa andrew cmu edu andrew cmu edu patrick leger writes hear baptism birth that isn preying young don that praying young preying young comes bright eyed altar boy finds priest wears that chasible thing scotsmen kilt never forget day tweleve and accidently walked roomfull priests sitting underware drinking beer and watching football kind changed opinion bit didn menacing that mccreary edm twisto compaq not for laughter tao
alt.atheism	victims good fight apr levels unisa edu desert brat tdb disease introduced brazilian oher tribes million fair this happen eventually time americans reached europe and thing happened matter together mccreary edm twisto compaq not for laughter tao
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality frank frank dwyer writes article apr abo mandtbacka finabo abo mats andtbacka writes and objective values specific and importantly motivate wild guess and freedom objectively valuable freedom world general doesn freedom tibetans for example mathew
alt.atheism	koresh god latest news that koresh will give once finished writing sequel bible mathew
alt.atheism	 article innf senator bedfellow mit edu tcbruno athena mit edu tom bruno writes stuff deleted brings point posting people alt atheism since damnedest stay top stuff deleted hmm usenet collective hooks into switched engineering started reading alt atheism not posted messages time since never understand people can find time write can barely mccreary edm twisto compaq not for laughter tao
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality reply frank frank dwyer people not word objective means put word morality assume idiom and cannot defined separate terms give objective morality morality built objective values dictionary philosophy anthony flew objectivism belief that moral truths that remain true thought desired for instance deliberately inflict pain another simply pleasure suffering thought plausible example even world sadists rejected contention remains true remains correct even left count problem for objectivist determine status moral truths and method can established accept that such judgements not reports relate naturalistic fallacy cannot proved facts nature world can analytic since this involve lack action guiding content thing plainly true virtue vords involved unhelpful practical guide action analytic and synthetic this point objectivist talk evident truths can deny subjectivist claim that evidence mind beholder not left claim that moral judgements true subjectivist feel that that remains that moral judgements associate hold moral opinion suggests not true preferences human activity david nye nyeda cnsvax uwec edu midelfort clinic eau claire this patently absurd wishes become philosopher learn not frightened absurdities bertrand russell
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie article apr andrews nrp andrews norman paterson writes don you germany daughter born and don german rights vote live rights citizens british citizen virtue parentage that not full citizenship for example don children british virtue fairly that obtain citizenship making application for require immigration germany almost that once applied for citizenship inevitable this case interesting your sentence fact people come children born that will human rights compare islamic country this respect people iran children will human rights you interesting for your propaganda purposes times that don iran exemplary good islamic state talk rights people capitalist secular world countries give examples lack rights world countries broadly for example central american secular capitalist countries govt supports amnesty international pointed human rights vacua gregg
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality vice ico tek bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes article jxru news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes you base your belief atheism your knowledge and reasoning couldn that wrong atheism based ignorance ignorance existence god don fall into atheists don pride mistake you based ignorance couldn that wrong wrong fall into trap that you mentioned heck talking and didn comments line thoughts mac bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea michael cobb and won raise taxes middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu taxes and spending cuts billion dollar deficits
alt.atheism	koresh god fri apr mathew mathew mantis latest news that koresh will give once finished writing sequel bible can feds tax evasion don remember hearing running post office last night mccreary edm twisto compaq not for laughter tao
alt.atheism	pope jewish west cville wam umd edu stilgar writes pope jewish thought that pope bear you that bear shit woods pope catholic connection two lines
alt.atheism	bible quiz article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes article qgbmt usenet ins cwru edu cleveland freenet edu frank kirschner writes sun starts orbit earth will accept bible since atheism mean trashing religions god inbreeding you son pope john paul
alt.atheism	islamic authority women benedikt rosenau dbstu wrote object belief perfect and make believers act and observe that don contradiction defined contradictorily cannot exist that not exist secondly explanations for existence object belief you read faq benedikt benedikt can recall claiming that god makes act particlar that you attempting manufacture contradiction god require behavior compulsion believer sense duty standard conduct exist free ignore misunderstand distort ways find convenient response god edicts can used question god existence behavior believers completely separate question that god existence nothing contradictory that defined contadictorily cannot exist asking you existence depend grammar you can that poorly defined that insufficient decide confusion your point that reasons for phenomenon belief object belief lead rat nest unnecessary complexity you implying your version this alternative bill
alt.atheism	islamic authority women scott sauyet ssauyet eagle wesleyan edu wrote people hidden motivations stated reasons for wars include religion you can claim that real reason economics politics ethnic strife fact remains that justification for wars conquer heathens you want for instance that economics chief crusades you make that point come and demonstrate that manner you show that not religion you this manner eliminate for crusades scott don make outrageous claims religion affecting and effecting history for purpsoe point that claims made wrong and nothing validate atheism time made statement that religion sole point that make that kind claim mistaken deliberately credit religion awesome power dominate history misunderstand human nature function religion and history that distort history this exaclty and for affect bill
alt.atheism	thoughts james felder spbach lerc nasa gov wrote logic alert argument incredulity hard for you this doesn mean that isn true liars can pursuasive koresh that you cite this basis great rejecting christian account things words madalyn murrey hair face folks silly disbelieve your incredulity you admit that fallacy bill
alt.atheism	thoughts kent sandvik sandvik newton apple wrote article vice ico tek bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine wrote spank wrong didn lord liar lunatic originate lewis this campollo fellow and isn clear connection absurd notion original christians origen similar statement attributed anselm that understand cases reason somewhat exalted posting accept means that statement can properly analysed this venue bill
alt.atheism	thoughts christians mccreary edm twisto compaq wrote apr gmt bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine article ofnwyg voa andrew cmu edu andrew cmu edu patrick leger writes hear baptism birth that isn preying young don that praying young preying young comes bright eyed altar boy finds priest wears that chasible this statement atheist surely not intended wit bill
alt.atheism	thoughts christians kent sandvik sandvik newton apple wrote this good point average people not christianity fear escapism quite simply improve social life involved american culture kids immigrants for example since overwhelming major religion western world form simply choice people bored and want lives not somethong ordinary weak long doesn hurt social pressure important factor for majority passive christians world today case early christianity promise heavenly afterlife independent your social status promising gift reason slaves and romans accepted religion rapidly this hypothetical proposition you fact you cite your sources this amateur sociologist sub branch suffice alert unwary that you screwing bill
alt.atheism	nicknames maddi hausmann madhaus netcom wrote jcopelan nyx edu and writes start posters annoy bobby bill your command bill shit stirrer connor bobby circular mozumder not nom net exactly comes close wade make insightful dead money repsonses agree that getting stirred characterization respond kinder you insist surprised find that offended cases unavoidable for fairness important check contributions haven generous and patient veritable paragon gentility btw don mind paired bobby admire tenacity you this hostile environment you offensive read your posts love and kisses bill name conner not connor point humiliating innocents
alt.atheism	islamic authority women keith ryan kmr cwru edu wrote nice cop bill you idea you refer you mind explaining copped bill
alt.atheism	death penalty political atheists this fascinating atheists argue for abortion defend homosexuality means population control insist that values biological and condemn war and capital punishment benedikt contardictory cannot exist this case means atheists suppose understand atheist can object war excellent means controlling population growth capital punishment logic escapes and capital punishment questioned propriety killing punishment basis ecomplaint bill
alt.atheism	americans and evolution robert singleton bobs thnext mit edu wrote isn mutually exclusive lends weight increases notional running estimates posterior probability atheist pitch partition and necessarily reduces quantity theist pitch this divine component falls prey ockham razor phenomenon satisfactorily explained and independent evidence such component detail post occam razor not law nature analyzing argument even interesting cited and end odd that religion simultaneously condemned primitive simple minded and unscientific anti intellectual and childish and condemned complex occam razor scientific explanation things straightforeward and apparently simpler essential and you that even scientists don fully comprehend science due complexity and diversity william occam performed lobotomy frontal lobe and thrown this confusing you will straighten tough bill
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons writes you disproved thing you failed nail post claim that believed possibilities god exists god not exist don attack strong atheism since guess you below that makes weak atheist snip you reasonable guy not honest and include sentence that honest ended that swear hmmmm recognize warning signs alternating polite and rude coming into newsgroup huge chip shoulder calls people names and makes nice whirrr click whirrr clam bake timmons bill shit stirrer connor whirr click whirr frank dwyer contained that shell pop stack determine whirr click whirr killfile keith allen schneider frank closet theist dwyer mind reels bobby mozumder maddi hausmann madhaus netcom centigram communications corp san jose california kids don this home remember post professionally
alt.atheism	death penalty political athei article apr abo mandtbacka finabo abo mats andtbacka writes rusnews mantis mathew writes noam chomsky reading this wrong talking outright government control media aka censorship doesn quick stop shopping reference works that short argue for manufacturing consent film media you alternative movie source this book your local alternative theatre contact films transit international sales jan rofekamp notre dame montreal quebec canada tel fax telex filmtransmtl readers call zeitgeist films shamim mohamed uunet noao cmcl arizona shamim shamim arizona edu this cross and garlic mezuzah jewish page koran muslim and zen buddhist you your member league for programming freedom write lpf uunet net
alt.atheism	requests article vice ico tek bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine subject requests date apr gmt article qllg mailer fsu edu mayne fsu edu writes excess stuff deleted that local church elder getting revelations god devastating quake scheduled level area independent corroboration friends apparently had similar revelations quake fact response request lot seeking sign god veracity visions this terribly interesting for amount stir created area people taking claims making plans target date local religious radio station devoted hours discussion topic even called live broadcasts host that full account conversion provided family and survived devastation and ruin that will invariably follow quake bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea similar incident years ago climatologist ithink that profession named iben browning predicted that earthquake hit madrid fault dec schools missouri that fault line cancelled school for day people evacuated madrid and towns teh wouldn suprised journalists area residents teh earthquake never occured used live southern illinois and lican middle school built directly fault line had school laughed poor idiots believed prediction bob you wanting excuse convert christianity you gonna tammy trim healy
alt.atheism	studies book mormon article snx enkidu mic agrino enkidu mic andres grino brandt writes agrino enkidu mic andres grino brandt subject studies book mormon date sun apr cst don mormons and want independent studies book mormon don buy official story gold original heaven haven read book mormon work learning biblical hebrew will comment results study style vocabulary place names internal consistency and for example evidence for writer multiple writers mention events places historical persons discovered archeologist collen andres grino brandt casilla santiago agrino enkidu mic chile hay mas realidad que realidad razon profeta don book mormon supposedly translated biblical hebrew read that prophet joseph smith traslated gold tablets sort egyptian ish language mormons post tammy trim healy
alt.atheism	societal basis for morality article prv news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb wrote expect follow notion societally mandated morality pardon extremism couldn murder your brother and that exercising rights felt good didn want forcing morality don follow your morality good statement apply empirical measurements define exact social morals morals based social rules ancient religious doctrines will never common and single denominator for defining morals and such defining absolute and objective morals doomed fail long humans this incredible talent creative thinking cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice wrote fred problem such reasoning that for believers measurement tool state that person real muslim christian person not such tools and religion misuse power and make bad shows sore points religion words show movement that can spin khomeinis stalins davidians husseins don such system exists reason for that condition free will humans free will can lies and half truths system and abuse for ends don such tools exist addition such thing objective information together religion and doctrines freely misused purpose this reminds descartes whispering deamon you can trust bother cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	free moral agency article pxqs darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner wrote for your question moral free agency christian position freedom acknowledge god morality practice direct outgrowth excercise that freedom you free ignore god you free ignore gravity and consequences inevitable and cases that atheist can accept evidence means that prefers not accept nothing evidence agree had hard feeling not believing grand grand mother told elves dancing barns early mornings preferred not accept even statement provided truth life hard cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article mvo blaze jhu edu arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee wrote article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes reading this group benefit knowing deviant view articulated not true view khomeini basic principles islam point view atheist you claim khomeini wasn practicing true islam that you member group supposed you two true muslim fred rice answered this early posting problem your argument that you not real believer and faking this person and god your assumption that claims believer believer not necessarily true words that define true and false muslim back square khomeini and hussein innocent and can defined evil good islamic worshippers cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	islamic authority women article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice wrote problem your argument that you not real believer and faking this person and god your assumption that claims believer believer not necessarily true that leaves door totally open for khomeini hussein rest considered true muslims and you can judge this god and person you apply your rule atheists agnostics you don belief this and god hoopla khomeini not real muslim and hoopla atheists not real human beings cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	suggestion for resources faq date mon apr gmt bruce stephens bruce liverpool good book summarizing and comparing religions good confess don that checked faq had alert reader list books suffers christian based agree that traffic this nature islamic references good overview nice book presents fairly unbiased account religions called man religions john noss textbook class had comparative religion such thing decent bibliographies each chapter jumping point for reading doesn compare religions directly describes each individually and notes similarities nothing read even remotely described preachy christian based fact christianity mercifully consumes pages book divided major regions world biggies began india east asia east nothing world religions aztecs mayas incas etc stuff people kill each nowadays and older religions snuffed you stuff couple books called ancient east james pritchard pretty cool epic gilgamesh code hammurabi stuff back men gods and gods men essential reading for wishes make religion and make sound real good
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics date apr gmt bake timmons timmbake mcl ucsb edu atheists time hands apologize didn bother reading faq and fired imprecise flame that inexcusable nickname bake flamethrower timmons you weren koresh compound noon today chance you remember koresh dried for your sins and pass that beef jerky umm umm
alt.atheism	objective values scientific accuracy years can that christian morality article rusnews mantis mathew mathew mantis wrote lpzsml unicorn nott steve lang writes values can refer meaning for example computer science true and false not lisp true you define statement that defined polarity and states considered polarity meaning nil false true cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	mary fault dfuller portal videocart dave fuller writes nice attempt chris verrry close you missed conspiracy step joseph knew knocked couldn that mary prego that wouldn for popularity local circles happened that feeling guilty feeling embarrassed and decided improve images downfall for clever come gained respect for couple joseph and mary receive praise paid jesus lucky for that baby didn obvious deformities mary gets pregnant wedlock save face and joseph that god that pregnant and baby turns deformed even worse stillborn lot explaining dave buckminster fuller that keeper nicknames nanci you and author this quote send email andrew cmu edu life not cease funny people die ceases people laugh
alt.atheism	islam and scientific predictions article nrl navy mil khan itd itd nrl navy mil umar khan writes man century arabia not include holy qur assuming had authored judging qur not mutton headed arguments wade today lots books written this subject books can speak eloquently hope bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article apr bnr rashid writes not this charge shatim applies rushdie and encompassed umbrella fasad ruling define words shatim and fasad you use john david munch jmunch hertz elee calpoly edu heart can change full hate love people allowed base lives hearts can happen dangerous situation opinion bobby mozumder describing problems atheism
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie anecdote islam article apr nott eczcaw mips nott wainwright writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes authorities referring authority world islamic community point simply that islamic law apply muslims wherever despite fact that islamic law not enforcable islamic countries muslims residing decide islamic community rulings legal consequences isles not decision rulings legal consequences islamic law and not law this obvious enforcing judgment distinct making judgment for example judgments world court this internationally recognized tribunal judgments physical economic effect important despite fact that judgments cannot enforced person excommunicated similar decided mete violent laws such fatwa breaking laws and persons such liable prosecution you read this thread this post ignore country laws preference religious laws not indigenous country question absurd and arrogant notion sort anarchism anarchism explicitly islam you for your reasoned response beside points making this thread gregg
alt.atheism	jewish settlers demolish mosque gaza iwxm news chalmers bertil dtek chalmers bertil jonell writes article kutluk ccl umist kutluk ccl umist kutluk ozguven writes atheists not mentioned quran quranic point view and minute reasoning can that such thing people that atheists aren atheists quran word din means individual thinking behaving communal order and protocols based set beliefs this interpreted weaker term religion atheists not mentioned quran jews mushriqin christians etc din din you set beliefs assumptions etc forma social code for example marxist such history conflict etc that not put idols sometimes represent assuptions not mean mushriq roughly polytheists cannot social atheism community that community common ideas standard beliefs coordinate society inscribe assumptions nation progress natural consequence human activity parlamentarian democracy doubtlessly government individually insist not gods quranic point view definition atheism not exist atheist society fact means reject din ours atheism can exist people reject idols gods dogmas suppositions society that part and that case that personal deviation belief and quran tells such deviations and disbelief mentioned quranic point things atheism macro level minute kutluk
alt.atheism	nostalgia recent rise nostalgia this group combined incredible level utter bullshit prompted comb archives and pull alt atheism for your reading pleasure post couple day group concensus demands that stop run good material haven careful past saving attributions comes john johnson correct wrong this longest entire collection that prophecy fulfilled christian religion and judging claims important claims fulfilling earlier jewish prophecy scribe matthew perhaps eager draw thinks prophetic answers career jesus nazareth you will matthew main strategy testament passages not even promised messiah and apply circumstances testament bear mind question authenticity accounts since gospels written years jesus executed not happened exactly stated for purposes analysis will claims face immanuel begin beginning mary will bear son and you joseph will name jesus means salvation for will save people sins this happened fulfil lord had spoken prophet isaiah days ahaz bce king judah rezin syria and pekah israel made war jerusalem capitol judah not quite conquer house david ahaz and court judah told this heart and heart people shook and lord isaiah meet ahaz and lord spoke ahaz prophet isaiah naturally sign your lord can deep sheol high heaven ahaz won will not put lord test isaiah hear house david not for you weary men that you weary god lord will give you sign behold young woman child and will bear son and name immanuel means will eat curds and honey refuse evil and choose good for child refuse evil and choose good land two kings you dread will deserted matthew homes sentence that italics hebrew word almah young woman specifically virgin this not prophecy messiah not prophecy event happen years not prophecy virgin bethulah mother short not jesus matthew made use verse context and make fit specific case mary noted that want read prophecy general manner general can made fit mary mary virgin not young woman child fit shady and problems jesus thought christians walking men never called name immanuel christianity wished claim this prophecy for jesus becomes cut and paste prophecy second class prophecy not convincing egypt jesus birth bethlehem matthew tells quick and unmentioned excursion egypt wishes liken jesus moses this escape alleged infanticidal rampage king herod and remained death herod this fulfil lord had spoken egypt cal led son lord this hosea israel child loved and egypt called son called people sacrificing als and burning incense idols matthew conveniently omits rest hosea oracle israel that once called egypt wanted return this history jesus not spoken and draw kind parallel wind jesus that flees and resists this prophecy not convincing matthew had hoped rachel weeps jesus vacationing egypt matthew that king herod sought kill and ordered executions young male children matthew writes this that spoken prophet jeremiah fulfilled voice heard ramah wailing and loud lamentation rachel weeping for children refused consoled reference passage jeremiah referring carrying israel into exile sargon assyria bce rachel ancestor major tribes israel ephraim and manasseh weep for descendants metaphorical since rachel lived and dies hebrews even egyptian exile interesting note that leah not rachel ancestor judeans land jesus and bethlehem weeping for children leah connexion that rachel bethlehem that legends that buried north city ephrath bethlehem for herod and infanticide that such event occurred never event not mentioned alluded anywhere bible mentioned secular records time herod unliked reign and evil deeds herod carefully recorded this prime example events added jesus life enhance message church gospel story similarity tale infant moses egypt highly likely that device set matthew add prophetic artificial approval jesus not surprising that matthew conveniently neglects mention rest jeremiah quote children prophet speaks not dead exiled assyrian empire comforts weeping rachel that children will returned will gather back together this not suit matthew purpose children speaks dead for good prophecy matthew sets not even that and bothers check not convincing nazarene not even chapter find another matthean prophecy leaving egypt joseph wife infant jesus live city nazareth that spoken prophets fulfilled called nazarene thing notice that matthew not mention name prophet this time second messianic prophecies speaking nazarene worse prophecies period mentioning nazarene worse nazarenes mentioned testament book judges angel tells samson mother that will judges conceive and bear son razor tough head for will nazirite god day birth will deliver israel hands philistines this not prophecy jesus messiah that can found matthew begun overboard cut and paste prophecies that simple making bearing diseases jesus healing people physical illnesses and disabilities this fulfil spoken prophet isaiah infirmities and bore diseases expected verse quoted isaiah quoted context and words skewed fit christian scheme surely suffering servant borne sickness and carried pains reading surrounding passages isaiah that prophet speaking present tense collective nation israel jehovah chosen servant and people speaks israelites suffering exile voice gentile nations that this image deeply ingrained jewish identity image chastised cherished israel instrument nations salvation verses speak israel taking sicknesses literal and metaphorical manifestations guilt and discipline not speak servant and healing people notice that servant isaiah takes sicknesses and pains nations and individual jews jesus not diseases verses isaiah not prophecy come that had happened believed that jesus eternal punishment hell not bear illnesses healed want that figuratively jesus reenacted deeds israel spiritual atonement admit that matthew parallel misses intended effect silent messiah healing multitudes commoners that jesus ordered quiet presumable that wouldn arouse attention local rulers this fulfill spoken prophet isaiah behold servant chosen beloved soul pleased will put spirit and will announce justice gentiles will not wrangle cry aloud will hear voice streets will not break bruised reed quench smoldering wick brings justice victory and gentiles will hope name isaiah passage quoted reads behold servant uphold chosen soul delights put spirit and will bring justice nations will not cry lift voice make heard street will not break bruised reed quench smoldering wick will faithfully bring justice will not fail burn dimly discouraged bruised established justice earth and coastlands await law you matthew conveniently left part passage not suit dealings jesus christians never jesus failing never light mankind burn dimly servant nation israel will come end job gentiles come embrace will longer chosen people will children ending phrase changed judaic coastlands await law christologic gentiles will hope name original proclaims torah law jehovah rewrites fit strange doctrine believing name doubt servant referred not jesus read chapter isaiah and hear beloved blind and imperfect servant people robbed and plundered that matthew attempt prophecy examined crumbles days and nights come prophecy supposedly uttered mouth god jesus speaks crucifixion and resurrection for jonah belly whale for days and nights will son man heart earth days and nights discussion can occur jews understood days day names each hours long lasting sunset sunset referred day period light ending sunset time scale sabbath day began friday evening and lasted saturday evening this jews celebrate sabbath daylight portion saturdays sundays real miracle that christians didn forget that saturday seventh and last day week days and nights referred together hour daylight portions and hour night periods spoken jesus that will grave hell unresurrected for days and nights good book tells jesus crucified ninth hour friday afternoon put into grave that jesus left grave rose dawn call sunday dawn sabbath this means that jesus time for clarity grave friday night time sunday morning add time friday since bible not specific this means jewish time that grave for day two nights and possibly couple hours day this problem for jesus prediction absolutely even death involve days and nights even modern time measurements led suspect that this error another matthew mistakes and that gospel writer put false words into god mouth and matter made prediction unconvincing counter convincing hearing understanding jesus tool habit speaking vast audiences parables stories deeper meaning found you elect chosen understand message jesus reasons that can understand parables people cannot understand bother since will not accept plain message matthew audience fulfilled prophecy isaiah you will hear never understand and you will never perceive this people heart grown dull ears heavy hearing and shut eyes not perceive ears and understand heart and turn for heal original isaiah passages part earlier works call ministry this bce israel flourishing falls authority assyria isaiah sees good times ending and vision calling bring reform israel and judah and and this people hear and hear not understand and not perceive make heart this people fat make ears heavy and shut eyes will not eyes hear ears and understand hearts and turn and healed isaiah long lord and cities lie waste inhabitant and houses men and land utterly desolate and men and forsaken places land and tenth will remain will burned terebinth oak stump stands tree felled holy seed stump that people israel stop listening prophet warnings reaffirms promise made solomon and david seed lineage you read rest isaiah you find that this fulfil plan use israel servant light nations isaiah that matthew cut and pasted portion isaiah verse suit gospel that altered words make fit people didn understand jesus stories and isaiah verses not prophecies commands present once matthew prophecy falls flat face matthew make jesus parables prophetic approval nothing parable this fulfil spoken prophet will open mouth parables will utter that hidden since foundation world matthew botches attempts quote not prophet psalms will open mouth parable will utter dark sayings things that heard and things that fathers told will not hide children coming generation glorious deeds lord pointed verses psalms not come prophet you want that earlier copies matthew gospel even inserted isaiah name this prophet apparently scribes caught error and cover perhaps significant part this that once matthew altered testament scriptures jesus earlier speaks parables that will not understand parables psalms not hidden speak things that fathers told jesus deals things hidden since foundation world jesus dealt lot secrecy and confusion this direct opposition parables psalms matthew had rewrite and once matthew artificial prophecies fall flat face christians rarely this matthew prophecies aren things christianity that beginning bad excuses faith that disciples casting demons case not knowing epilepsy people thought disease possesed demons that disciples unable dispossess epileptic jesus perhaps enlightened reported rebuked didn faith this strange this demon special that true believer faith not apparently faith will move mountains you will find days that can move real mountains parts seas miracles charismatics can speak rumoured happen trips mexico faraway place major miracles making woman arthritis feel sunday morning and gods including jesus shrouded ancient lore and writings protected skeptics sacred pasts dead sleeping hiding heaven people rumouring imminent return and great miracles days long life tales mystics stories miracles distant time distant place gods used reveal men days jehovah silent theologians give excuses don god anymore lazy not zealous sinful plan put demands appearance had faith willing meet terms even pious men not you dear reader not not literally you that true that presumptuous and bold searching your heart you mean that religions make people feel good and content not faith not merit sometimes love people you worship lives people change that people lulled sleep satisfied turning into everyday sights that not speaking not people used world that good compassion human hearts love and men and women forgiveness practised christian atheist alike beauty created mind man things that this faith jesus rides ass shortly accepting role jewish messiah king jesus requests donkey brought for ride into jerusalem this place fulfil spoken prophet daughter zion behold your king coming you humble mounted ass and ass colt passage quoted zechariah reads differently your king comes you triumphant and victorious humble and riding ass ass colt will command peace nations isn that difference that zechariah involves animal ass colt matthew reads poetic wording slightly differently jesus call for colt and adult ass matthew version comical picture divine christ sweating straddle two donkeys this inevitably lead theological proctological dilemma find that account written earlier mark colt called for and brought jesus this fits verses zechariah properly and shows that matthew attempt use prophetic verses bungled excluding respectable christians met noticed that christ thought ridden asses situation reversed nowadays entering jerusalem temple priests angered people and youngsters calling jesus messiah jesus replied expect matthew haven you read mouth babes and sucklings thou brought perfect praise likely that matthew made this response since jesus never point such prophetic things and since expect quote error fit matthew track record quite jesus matthew haven you read for source reads psalms yahweh lord majestic your name world you glory chanted heavens babes and infants you founded bulwark your foes enemy and avenger passages comment perfect praise spoken psalm and praise not messiah king and not jesus mentioned case matthew pen making convenient prophetic scripture yhvh lord jesus asked promised jewish messiah king descended jews agree king david jesus counters quoting psalms lord lord sit hand put your enemies your feet face jesus denying necessity davidic descent assumes opposition answer christian answer that agrees make hidden point reveal mystery divine nature messiah king tempting this christian and not interested matters investigation problems jesus time psalm thought messiah and easy david refer messiah superior scriptures messiah that expected great king bringing jews times even david rule jews listening had good answer and passage refer divine messiah such christians worship problem lies meaning this psalm error that apparently jews jesus time had made remember that factions jews result expectations messiah king jesus apparently adventists audience thought messiah advent imminent and interpreted psalms messianic problem psalm literally reads yhvh utterance lord sit hand make your enemies your footstool yhvh sends your mighty scepter zion rule midst your foes your people will offer freely day you lead your host holy mountains you priest order melchizedek forever word lord mistakenly capitalised christian bibles denote divinity this lord hebrew word adoni and capitalisation exists adoni simply means lord generic term use used scriptures refer kings and address respect nothing text imply that word refers divinity messiah king that this supposed written david not title psalm translates psalm david psalm david fitting assume written court poet david covenant and endorsement psalm had written david that talking messiah idea perfect king descended david not present david age extensive tales david doings and sayings include praises messiah psalms show evidence written long david dead times exile had put show favour for david kingdom hold description psalm fit david david promised rise power victory enemies successful judgement nations conquered achieved priesthood common melchizedek righteous king enabled bless people fits not blame this problem matthew alone not artificial prophecy alluded use scripture questionable this event common gospels matthew easily this time interesting note matthew dresses event earlier gospel mark tells tale jesus simply speaking crowd matthew pharisees religious competition infant christianity target jesus question expect matthew writes that event ends embarrassing pharisees such power pen moses jesus had together leave gospel story matthew momentarily pseudo prophecy john gospel gospel story john deserves special treatment removed real events jesus career told even matthew for moment will verse early church leaders founded religion jewish hopes messiah king and artificial extension original promises made constructing history abraham moses wrote promise land and nationhood jewish people this accomplished eventually rule king david christians decided that claim fulfillment promise expanded promise preaching heavenly kingdom john speaking your father abraham rejoiced day and glad nice tie approval for jesus abraham abraham knew nothing jesus messiah christian and failed find event testament corresponds john prophecy par for john making testament backings forerunner matthew christians that faith foundations such fraud and surprising cling potter field told that jesus betrayed jerusalem followers judas iscariot matthew writes and throwing pieces silver temple judas departed chief priests taking silver isn lawful for put treasury since blood money bought potter field bury strangers fulfilled spoken prophet jeremiah and thirty pieces silver price price had set sons israel and gave for potter field lord directed this prophecy utterly gross bastardisation testament scripture matthew made mistake name prophet zechariah utters verses matthew makes use zech and weighed wages thirty shekels silver yhvh cast treasury lordly price paid thirty shekels silver and cast into treasury house yhvh verses zechariah not deal betrayer messiah deal shepherd likely priest chosen serve function presiding people shortly send judah and israel into conflict another word treasury had replaced king james scholars potter precisely this made matthew quote fit this blatant error correct translation hebrew treasury makes perfect sense zechariah context potter field totally unrelated whether mistranslation intentional not speculation matthew track record finds hard resist notion intentional dishonesty matthew ample reason for altering text thirty pieces silver match judas situation and christians reader willing disregard contextual incongruity matthew another prophecy toss correct translation zechariah directly contradicts situation judas and high priests high priests not put money treasury worthless shepherd zechariah exactly opposite average thursday night bible student prophecy presented matthew testament face matthew work convincing wine vinegar casting lots jesus led crucified gave vinegar drink mingled gall tasted not drink and had crucified divided garments casting lots that fulfilled spoken prophet parted garments and vesture cast lots vinegar offered jesus common sour wine type that roman soldiers drank regularly find that jesus dies soldiers give drink not polluted gall jesus thirst bowl vinegar stood put sponge full vinegar hyssop and held mouth had received vinegar finished matthew drawing not passage prophets psalms looked for pity and for comforters found gave poison for food lit put gall meat and for thirst gave vinegar drink add punishment punishment acquittal thee blotted book living sour wine offered jesus request drink this show pity psalm quoted david and political and military enemies not messiah jesus not surprising that run into problem that jesus psalm asks for damnation crucifiers jesus gospels jesus father forgive don matthew misses attempt create prophecy gall bitter substance put into jesus drink not meat psalm stipulates prophecy vinegar faulty naturally casting lots this brings psalm deserves discussion suffice that fact that jesus clothes divided told great thing turns that this happened felon days will perhaps erroneous passage psalm applied jesus bring interesting question quality jesus clothes for man removed worldly possessions ownership clothes worthy casting lots raises suspicions psalm this psalm attributed david lament condition attack enemies becomes song praise yhvh and hope context parts fit plight jesus crucifixion quite will examine primary passages verse god god you forsaken you helping words groaning god cry day you don answer and night find rest jesus cried sentence cross this suggests that psalm jesus king david rest stanza not fit nicely jesus execution jesus not pictured complaining ordeal supposed lamb led mute shearers jesus doesn groaning even cross not cry day and night cross worm and man scorned men mock make faces and wag heads committed yhvh deliver for delights this fit jesus execution pretty exception holy messiah called worm bulls encompass open mouths widely ravening and roaring lion yea dogs round company evildoers encir cle pierced hands and feet can bones divide garments and cast lost for raiment you yhvh not deliver soul sword life power dog save mouth lion and afflicted soul horns wild bull quite convincing and early christian fathers wrote this prophecy thought this prophecy fatal flaw words pierced not exist psalm correct hebrew translation yea dogs round company evildoers encircles lion hands and feet hebrew phrase lion and rare verb form can mean pierced differ phonetic character word hebrew text literally lion ari makes sense context and even fits animal imagery employed psalm writer convenience that urge christian change word aru add needed artificial weight prophecy this christian translators chosen correct translation not eliminate psalm referring jesus absence not for honesty translators apart erroneous verse psalm not lend jesus easily verse speaks sufferer saved sword cross this naturally fits psalm true subject king david side note that crucifixions not pierce hands palms forearms this doesn favour traditional thought resurrected jesus showing disciples scars palms facts aren bound religious beliefs matthew escapes culpability this time not attempt draw direct links this psalm and lord jesus psalm minds gospel writers compiled stories and interpretations jesus life and death scriptures contributed written question that repercussions for christian theology easy for not faithful fundamentalists events testament enhanced scribes such eager matthew speculate simply investigate scriptural matters and prophetic claims this not good things for matthew reference piercing lot jesus crucifixion john gospel recount written years fact tells jesus execution soldiers pierced side spear and blood and water things place that scripture fulfilled will pierced this built passage blatantly context prophet zechariah tells nation israel will split jerusalem and judah and war and yhvh will give victory judah and that day will seek destroy nations that come jerusalem judah and will pour spirit compassion and supplication jerusalem that pierced will mourn and weep bitterly you weep firstborn child john attempt make prophecy perhaps weaker that matthew attempts matthew excontexts passage john errors grossly obvious and blatant not speak for gospel writers helps show prophetic aspects religion founded reckoned transgressors arrest jesus quickly executed for claiming jewish kingship messiahship version gospel tale jesus gets executed two thieves and crucified two robbers left and scripture fulfilled reckoned transgressors mark link jesus passage isaiah servant nation israel passage not messiah for reads chapter isaiah and surrounding chapters sees that servant nation verses this servant past not prediction come event servant thought criminal this happens fit description jesus had passage messiah not clear executing jesus two thieves fulfill prophecy isaiah jesus fittingly fulfill ministry considered blasphemer and troublemaker career locking single event poor steal prophecy this case that mark had made analogy general comparisons mark crucified jesus reviled this expected couple robbers recount luke decides change things luke tells and criminals hanged railed aren you messiah save and this fits mark recount tells people crucified jesus save and that robbers luke criminal rebuked don you fear since you sentence condemnation and justly for receiving due reward for deeds this man nothing wrong and jesus remember you come your kingdom and jesus answered verily you today you will paradise this dialogue highly contrived stretches imagination bit this picture ruffian rebuking fellow criminal such eloquent speech strange picture criminal lamenting goodness punishment and justness suffering such man apparently noble and principle doesn likely robber amount theatrics created luke luke recount disagrees mark luke criminal revile jesus not easy discount discrepancy account made part error free words not this avenue open this another example writer testament passage and expand and reinterpret suit theology this case embroidery creates embarrassing problems end world comes perhaps extraordinary and embarrassing passages testament found synoptic gospel stories and casts unfavourable doubt theory christianity jesus mentions destruction jewish temples and buildings and disciples this and end world warning disciples will this temple destruction and will sign your coming and close age jesus care that leads you astray for will come name christ you will hear wars and rumours wars for this place end not for nation will rise nation this beginning birthpangs will deliver you put you death and false prophets will arise and lead astray endures end will saved this gospel will preached world testimony nations and end will come you desolation spoken prophet daniel judea flee mountains immediately tribulation days sun will darkened stars will fall heaven will sign son man heaven and tribes earth will mourn and son man coming and will send angels and gather elect learn lesson fig tree branch becomes tender and puts leaves you that summer you things you will that gate you this generation will not pass things place day and hour not angels not son father you ready for son man coming hour you not expect this clear that jesus thought world lifetimes disciples tells that doesn exact day hour that will come and ready theologians wet pants panic find this holy error jesus made explicit told disciples that generation end and that prepare for prepare swept resorted removing inerrant nature bible and that phrase this generation not pass means this race people will not pass word for generation used times refer exactly that generation disciples interesting notion that god decided learn greek didn learn make clear quite obvious rest dialogue that disciples supposed live end world charge mistranslation completely blown apostles responses becomes abundantly clear rev peter john and rev that jesus meant exactly end for years christians rationalised this chapter matthew meaning altogether for years waited for executed leader come back hearing wars and rumours wars that coming surely wait can you imagine tired sitting holy waiting for moment spring shortly crucifixion jesus nazareth joshua ben joseph died that days days and nights periods time eternal seconds can decide makes for trouble resurrected glowing divine radiance saviour decided wasn interests religion stick and disappeared sight into heaven story things attributed jesus people writing gospel stories jesus fulfiller prophecy and scripture that this matter quite shaky church history christians held fast faith simple belief doctrinal objections not solved argumentation brute force faith and forgetfulness question question and investigate never easiest treat matters for years prophecies cited testament largely accepted things continue that for time pausing moment doctrines christianity accepted and used properly improperly support wars and persecution suppose prophecy christianity can securely hold jesus don that come bring peace earth haven come bring peace sword
alt.atheism	thoughts bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes want start and that christian makes sense you read tony campollo book liar lunatic real thing title writes book part effort destroy christianity process christian assume you posting encourage comments history tony campello read not arguements summing book whether jesus god not you don listen perspective for gain listening good hear that reasonable christians christian scientists note australia strong movement bunch christian scientists that single event bible exactly true and that rational explanation for that can justified laws physics for example chaps prove that age universe years and that error conventional calculations result fact that speed light rapidly decaying years and this not accounted for book that jesus liar crazy modern day koresh that never existed and bible story and never intended become manifesto for billion people tony follow that reasons wouldn liar follows die for lie wouldn people liar people gathered and gathered hearing had healed millions people died for lie this point difficult substantiate since not defined great religious arguments work that aztec warriors sacrificed gods belief that this act bring victory spanish invaders list endless aztecs lost btw call fool heal people that perfectly reasonable not grounds for become christian point not add weight claim that jesus real thing niether lunatic entire nation drawn crazy doubtful fact rediculous for example drawn david koresh fool logical people this you documentary rise nazi germany point tony mention this call werner heisenberg and colleagues fools illogical men support hitler based presume emotional issue rational agreement principles argument invalid tony thought that hitler sane since wasn liar lunatic real thing hmmm don arguments warrant use things note fulfilled loads prophecies psalms isaiah and hrs alone this betrayal and crucifixion don bible this moment time write will use this alot religious discussions had people result quoting bible reasonable people can bible treat stories sort metaphorical representation messages that authors present interpret parts bible literally will end sorts shit tony argument perfectly reasonable for people events described bible place convince thinks bible total fiction that jesus real quoting book totally pointless for example mathematics you cannot equal equal don people understand christian that possibly explain people killed religious wars and hundreds versions claiming correct not lot churches life and total sacrafice for god sake loved die and save hey can god inspires turn lives that tuff and people don want real christian for strong persevere weight lifting guitar playing drums takes time don rush day christianity your life not church once week helping poor people once box into time units such work this time sports social life god boxes and carried into boxes that created for ourselves you posted this part alt religion you flames never understood emotional sentiments stranger interest people famous that two evils life polititians and churchs rules fear living fear dead pressed find exact quotation cheers charles
alt.atheism	bible quiz article apr ccsua ctstateu edu kellyb ccsua ctstateu edu wrote article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes sun starts orbit earth will accept bible since atheism mean trashing religions god inbreeding you son that witty sig file sums great deal atheistic thought imo simple sentence atheism isn religion steve mullins vos stratus man empties purse into opinions stratus opinions head can benjamin franklin
alt.atheism	islam and scientific predictions article nrl navy mil khan itd itd nrl navy mil umar khan writes strongly suggest that you book called bible quran and science maurice baucaille french surgeon not comprehensive researched imagine your library can for you interlibrary loan hold time read short baucaille began investigating bible pre ceived scientific inaccuracies and inconsistencies assumed that problems caused poor translations days read find hebrew greek aramaic found that problems didn worse decided religions had problems picked holy qur french and found similar prob lems not applied logoic had bible learned read arabic problems had found french version arabic unable find wealth scientific statements holy qur find made sense modern understanding investigated traditions hadith had science filled science problems contemporary narratives time had pour standards primitive world view conclusion that impressed that holy qur had science accurate impressed that holy qur not rampant errors evidenced traditions man century arabia not include holy qur assuming had authored short writer writers quran decided stay science you not open your mouth you don put you foot into your mouth you quran not talk science can not make claims bobby that you great science quran basically want that religious texts supposed scientific treatises requesting theists stop making such wild claims vinayak vinayak dutt mail vdp mayo edu standard disclaimers apply
alt.atheism	bible contradictions list bible contadictions you dispite free christianity versed bible
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality article jts news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes vice ico tek bobbe vice ico tek robert beauchaine writes atheism based ignorance ignorance existence god don fall into atheists don pride mistake you based ignorance couldn that wrong wrong fall into trap that you mentioned wrong god free time correct mistake that continues not supposedly proclaiming undying love for eternal soul speaks volumes for trap you not position that don god not you can motivations you that earnestly searched for god for years and never found bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek that queens stay blew bronx and sank manhattan sea
alt.atheism	silly question tianity article pww spac rice edu pww spacsun rice edu peter walker writes pww spacsun rice edu peter walker subject silly question tianity date mon apr gmt article qaqi inngje gap caltech edu werdna cco caltech edu andrew tong wrote
alt.atheism	islam and scientific predictions umar khan khan itd itd nrl navy mil wrote strongly suggest that you book called bible quran and science maurice baucaille french surgeon not comprehensive unable find wealth scientific statements holy qur find made sense modern understanding investigated traditions hadith had science filled science problems contemporary narratives time had pour standards primitive world view conclusion that impressed that holy qur had science accurate impressed that holy qur not rampant errors evidenced traditions man century arabia not include holy qur assuming had authored this book worth read sensible view this issue book two sections section contains fairly reasonable analysis bible showing inconsistencies bible and modern science that surprises section analyses koran version testament stories and face present good case showing koran consistent modern science plain that this consistency vague phraseology koran flood for example bible full detail forty days and forty nights pair animal etc this nonsense koran description event obscure make interpretation such big river flooded for days and caused damage contradiction not fact koran consistent modern science consistent due vagueness compared books that time not achievement book concludes koran had divine inspiration time written lot ridiculous ideas universe and can found koran arguing for greatness book talking not absurd extreme memory missed points leonard mail newnham bradford
alt.atheism	bible and abortion james lippard lippard skyblu ccit arizona edu wrote exodus and men struggle each and strike woman child that miscarriage injury surely fined woman husband demand and pay judges decide injury you appoint penalty life for life eye for eye tooth for tooth hand for hand foot for foot burn for burn wound for wound bruise for bruise straightforward interpretation verses that men fight strike woman and miscarry penalty fine woman injured dies lex talionis doctrine eye for eye applies this jewish interpretation and supported jewish commentaries verses this quite embarrassment for pro lifer christians alternate explanation alternative interprets word miscarriage mean premature birth child born alive and injury mean injury woman fetus this not straightforward interpretation not supported jewish commentaries and not appeared supported part bible historical reference abortion this time ancient jew reference understand abortion asking not making point veiled question understanding medical procedure abortion not surprising bible makes reference makes reference nuclear power and contamination your interpretation reasonable reason reject hand king jimmy translation mischief this not necessarily imply woman wife expecting and spontaneously abort feel that life not simply process halted
alt.atheism	you will hell you blashephemers you will hell for not believing god prepared for your eternal damnation
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger wrote khomeini advocates view that series twelve islamic leaders twelve imams free error sin this makes heretic wow you quicker point heresy church middle ages even sheiks azhar don claim that shi ites heretics accusations and fabrications shi ites come saudi arabia wahabis for that matter you read original works sunni imams imams madhabs teacher two imam jafar sadiq sixth imam shi ites plenty false propaganda floating shi ites esp since revolution good works shi ites present views and teachings school make assumptions and allegations people this group islam general shi ites
alt.atheism	note bobby article apr ultb isc rit edu snm ultb isc rit edu mozumder writes people not religous city people that care for religion lot crime lot murder this end lack religion that wrong happen lived tokyo for year and half and reasons intend back indefinitely freedom enjoys can walk anywhere and mean anywhere time day night and not feel uneasy even ethnic minority clues for bobby bother tokyo city and tokyo city negligible level violent crime and street murder will lead item national news iii population almost universally atheistic time for stroll beirut night you compares bobby mozumder cheers simon simon clippingdale simon dcs warwick department computer science tel university warwick fax coventry
alt.atheism	islam clearer view article bafc dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes dbstu benedikt rosenau subject islam clearer view date tue apr gmt article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes generally accepted that rise inquisition reason torture introduced romanic countries end middle ages words holy mother church lead infallibly holy ghost spread roman catholic church claims lead infallable pope that church wicked things xtians and believers alike rationale that pope speaking cathedra infallible based claim dogma pope jesuitic origin and not accepted mid last century benedikt you for enlightening tammy
alt.atheism	cannanite genocide bible excuse for ignorance remember reading once that biblical tribe philistines exists modern day palestinians info post tammy
alt.atheism	getting point readers asked you post list sda church fundamental beliefs warn you long list post sunday sabbath coming won reading saturday and don time greatly you touch hope you reastful and relaxing weekend hope tammy
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie anecdote islam article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger wrote precise rejection god and leaving islam perfectly free muslim and doubt and question existence god long not reject god that rushdie made atheism clear front sufficient number proper witnesses question regard legal issue status time crime committed gregg you that rushdie left alone and normal life words islam support notion forgiving cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie anecdote islam article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger wrote stated parallel thread not anarchist islam anarchist control this not change fact that for citizens residing violation islamic law this interesting notion and scared case finnish citizen live usa and conform laws finnish government not actively checking this country words checking conform finnish laws islamic law curse that you world shades cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	objective morality political atheists article qlf ginn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider wrote type morality you talking natural sense not immoral harm another species long doesn adversely affect your guess hehehe you this objective morality somehere tells you that this not case and you don rules such transcendental game systems cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	free moral agency and kent article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy wrote time ezekiel written israel apostacy and not mistaken tyre make war israel prince tyre human ruler tyre wicked man calling satan king tyre ezekiel that satan real ruler tyre tammy this explicitly stated bible you assume that you that ezekiel indirectly mentioned another metaphor for instance ezekiel mad landlord talked wrote prince tyre interpretation mundane ezekiel wrote prince tyre wrote prince tyre cheers kent sandvik newton apple alink ksand private activities net
alt.atheism	sci skeptic religion alt atheism article psuvm psu edu john johnson psuvm psu edu writes standard groups sci soc talk conform stricter rules established and show volume postings will cease exist groups reach sites usenet alt groups posted opinion mathew suggestion that alt atheism verge garbage postings fundies and elevating status standard group and volume such postings make unreadable tend agree started and watched grow roots talk religion misc for atheists come forward past trash xians and such stable core and frankly feeling that this group mainstream lot places and fucking fundy loonie freshman will dumping find jeesus and warn that hell want real alt fan brother jed and imagine that imbecilic tirades will time post selfish find learn lot and isn bad browns and boobys distraction that even bring leavening needed offset greatly fear that mainstreaming basically put swamping level conners world regards dew dewey henize sys net admin risc hardware pager
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie this part gregg not understand posts giving support bounty rushdie life that correct end point gregg concept legal westerners don accept comments islamic law make great deal sense and even making sense person member group religion bind follow ways group bounds group requires minimum big bone contention that picking that west secular governments that maintain level control and requirements requirements optional groups majority reading this thread tune note didn agreement idea that you finally responsible secular government and that group groups person chosen that mind not secular law legally people define term hold person group once decide separate secular authorities agree that requirement sort contractual etc secular enforcement allowed group group member past group member religion can and and require additional duties group member and can enforce fulfillment duties ways ostracism common for example limit comes enforcement impose unwanted and unaccepted onus person conflict secular law this difference theocracy requirements secular authorities definition congruent religious authorities theocracy this not necessarily true religious requirements coincide not similiarly religious consequences not coincide secular consequences regards dew dewey henize sys net admin risc hardware pager
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article apr bnr rashid writes deletions fatwa levelled person rushdie actions rushdie that feed situation contribute legitimization ruling book remains circulation not independant will will author and publishers fatwa person rushdie encompasses actions crime crime progress levels and played and played full view media not this charge shatim applies rushdie and encompassed umbrella fasad ruling this grounded firmly islam you claim you exposed islam grounds for terrorism plain and simple whether you not whether rushdie acted total jerk not acceptable civilized basis for putting fear life for words simply not matter whether underlying motive find worst insult muslims and beliefs that you not threaten life for words you you quite simply admit backruptcy your position you support threatening life for words you not civilized this exactly and people depart respecting religions beliefs and encourage interpretation killing physical opposition you privledged that whether rushdie bush hussien whover pale civilized society and you can condemn soul refuse members your association interact peacably demonstrate convince disassociate miscreants short physical force once you physically threaten support physical threats you closer your earlier comparison rape you rapist whines asked for dressed blaming victim you unable civilized doesn fly dew dewey henize sys net admin risc hardware pager
alt.atheism	nicknames article ufnyj voqit vpa andrew cmu edu andrew cmu edu nanci ann miller writes jcopelan nyx edu and writes official keeper list nicknames that people alt atheism didn had such list you your awarded nickname buckminster time you post article sign your nickname dave buckminster fuller jim humor means never you copeland list agree nickname laws laid gipu almost years ago you that written iron tablets that melted once and had reinscribed since prophet gipu decree that you post list nicknames for frequent posters rule humor never you second rule never explain things worse that joke explained spite this and requests for post list nicknames admit that such list exists simply plot device keeper list make obvious play last name fuller and advance idea that such list made assumed that timers recognize for nevertheless list nicknames for alt atheism posters you good post and start posters annoy bobby bill jim broke second rule humor copeland god dead and actor plays part sting words fear will find place your heart history voice reason faith curse will teach freedom past things can worse nothing
alt.atheism	death penalty gulf war article rusnews mantis mathew mathew mantis writes rush leland stanford edu voelkerding writes article apr seachg chrisb seachg chris blask writes add this outrageous cost putting death special cell block years court costs extra guards and benefits death penalty disappear that your earlier claim that innocent death overrides benefit tragic argument for death penalty war and worried accidentally killing civilians time determination enemy imperfect win war fortunately thinking folks your good power and deemed acceptable slaughter tens even hundreds thousands iraqis order liberate oil hkuwait won war hurrah hurrah number civilian iraqi deaths exaggerated and exploited for anti war emotionalism liberal news media facts that iraqis died gulf war civilians war comparable size this century this due short duration coupled precise surgical bombing techniques technically recently idea that hundreds thousands iraqi citizens died ludicrous not even hundreds thousands iraqi soldiers died and targeted you that and allies specifically kill and maim iraqi civilians smart bombs didn hit targets and targeting civilian targets condusive destroying iraq military potential military mission planners not fools hit military targets win war hitting civilian targets nothing unite people you not laudable goal people rise tyrant dictator innocent people died unarmed civilians fleeing that road didn bombed bits perhaps that kid half face burned and girl mangled legs weren guilty worth death innocents save oil hlives kuwaiti people isn iraqis not had chance vote for saddam showed acceptance regime not assassinating that surrendering and fleeing open roads devious ploy rights bomb case finding soldiers innocent people died blanket bombing don hear you bemoaning war never exact science smart bombs exact smaller percentage civilian casualties sometimes mistakes made targets misidentified innocents die that war alternative tyrannical dictators treat earth big rummage sale grabbing can worse patrick henry years ago not for give liberty give death war price willing pay wishes stay free death penalty conceived deterrent crime legal shenanigans that added automatic appeals lengthy court battles etc relegated that purpose small part question instate death penalty meant and that deters crime rid reinstate death penalty that shit fair trials and court appeals gets justice give police absolute gun guilty and save ourselves expense lawyers knock benefits never had spend money cleaning riots and holding showcase trials cops had allowed job properly quick bullet head rodney king and another for cameraman and saved great deal unnecessary paperwork and expense police decide man guilty that fact that death penalty shown not deterrent effect imprisonment that irrelevant mathew mathew your sarcasm noted you completely base you come sounding complete peace nik idiot feel that not your intent iraqi war wrong that appeasement worked war guess shouldn fought innocent german civilians killed dresden and hamburg poor french died crossfire invaded continent hitler europe and you speaking german english tyrants hussein stopped kind don understand diplomacy understand point gun regret that bush wimped and didn military roll into baghdad hussein power and iraqi people sacrifice not mention americans died for naught liberating kuwait good thing wiping hussein map and for poor poor rodney king you stop and jury trial brought back verdict not guilty foaming mouth for blood policemen looked video tape jury looked evidence evidence you and not makes judgment benefit trial evidence can presented sides simply lowered level vigilante justice state mind your sarcasm seemingly spoke support case policemen law this country intended protect rights accused whether criminals cops not found guilty reasonable doubt guilt and jury position assess evidence and render verdict simply succumbing verbal vigilantism regards jim
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes article apr andrews nrp andrews norman paterson writes don you germany daughter born and don german rights vote live rights citizens british citizen virtue parentage that not full citizenship for example don children british virtue fairly that obtain citizenship making application for require immigration germany almost that once applied for citizenship inevitable this case nope germany extremely restrictive citizenship laws ethnic germans lived russia for years automatically become citizens move germany turks generation germany can not good example show citizenship descent karl lastly come china hope you touch and you fulfilling lifelong ambition your life will dropping acid great wall duke pink floyd lie lie even billion people
alt.atheism	you will hell fri apr edt jsn psuvm psu edu you blashephemers you will hell for not believing god prepared for your eternal damnation hmm mst lunch box travel scrabble and couple kegs bass ale set mccreary edm twisto compaq not for laughter tao
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie article dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes assume that you religious law for followers religion that begs question religion define follower even offenders disagree religious law applies categorized belonging religion event judged applies this prevents situations member religion charged claims that not member religion free nothing had happened gregg
alt.atheism	anecdote islam article dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes brutal system filtered leniency not lenient huh you rate public floggings floggings chopping hands heads body parts stoning don problem floggings offenders chance change behavior floggings problem maiming general means opinion not maimed another maimed case rape victim maimed physically and emotionally wouldn problem maiming rapists wouldn problem maiming murderers you had opinion you muslim you don that rape and murder dealt lightly you interested leniency for leniency sake apparently that people simply told bad thing and simple chance misjudgements misjudgments avoided suspect that pretty that requirement repeated offenses that misjudgments likely orient not place single character your ignorance exposes nicely read carefully not orient shows primitive machism not use specific words orient your mind contains sufficient information detail not and europe shows civilized bullshit this bullshit time put shut you substantiated nothing and blabbering islamists talk west great satan you guilty stupidities love compare such lines common plea your fellow believers not call each names this case substantiate quran that beats wife into submission care give chapter and verse discuss primitive machism refers that misspelt that fault not orient follows qur you that you haven put islam expresses extramarital sex extramarital sex subset sex suppressedin islam that marial sexis allowed encouraged islam branches christianity misses point read part urge for sex religions that run telling people sex not piece cake for two reasons suppressing strong urge strong measures and not business you thought you make argument reading opinions argument that you doubt validity premises not change you want criticize time for you put shut this argument for you don religions that suppress sex such irrelevant argument you generalize objective statement fine response you reason for your statement that sex not business religion your arguments urge for sex adolescents not strong that overly strong measures required suppress urge sex strong adult that adult can make commensurate effort find marriage partner gregg
alt.atheism	free moral agency article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes article apr princeton edu qpliu phoenix princeton edu liu writes faith gift obedience makes faith makes obeying believing wondering that obedient idea obedient written wholly babble users guide invisible pink unicorns granted faith invisible pink unicorns you read babble and obey written obey written babble you that granted faith invisible pink unicorns that obeying written babble leads believing invisible pink unicorns you essentially invisible pink unicorns this bit circular reasoning begs question makes obeying believing qpliu princeton edu standard opinion opinions delta correlated
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article apr bnr rashid writes twelve imams considered incapable error sin khomeini supports this view twelve imans this heresy for reasons gave happy discuss issue imams you preference move discussion another newsgroup feel philosophy religion group reading this group benefit knowing deviant view articulated not true view khomeini basic principles islam that muslim readers this group will simple basics islam such views face and not contradiction basics islam subtle such issues and sects exist islam explicitly proscribed qur topic deeply embedded world view islam and esoteric teachings prophet heresy not enter into for islam exoteric religion that nominally concerned metaphysical substance man and nature opinion human substance metaphysical fundamentally that human heretical notion and proscribed islam your posts you fairly versed sunni thought you seek shi ite thought knowledgeable shi ite authors that respect due charge heresy levelled absolutely interested discussing this privately and interested hearing make concept error free and sinless human beings philosophically consistent teachings qur prima facie such attemptsa highly susceptible degenerating into monkery explicitly proscribed qur salaam laikum alaikum wassalam gregg
alt.atheism	koresh god date fri apr mathew mathew mantis latest news that koresh will give once finished writing sequel bible mathew writing seals lines written pages and handed assistant for proofreading expect decent messiah built spellchecker koresh will come
alt.atheism	islam and scientific predictions date fri apr gmt umar khan khan itd itd nrl navy mil conclusion that impressed that holy qur had science accurate impressed that holy qur not rampant errors evidenced traditions man century arabia not include holy qur assuming had authored folks soc religion islam loosened bit and discussing this topic banking interest topic books subject mentioned addition you mentioned hard find stab curiosity film this subject pretty weak and two quotes used show science koran posted pretty vague suspect that books will extrapolate awful lot quotes poster islam channel misgivings practice koran decide good science islam come equivalent christians creation science topic interesting find history scientific interpretations koran used koran support earlier science since discarded easy science exists today and interpret passages match findings people similar things sayings nostradamus time unique claim islam and worth checking
alt.atheism	keith relativist levels unisa edu desert brat writes keith you start wafffling for human maul thrown into cage speak you start posting tome decent evidence retract your absolute morality blurb weeks ago claim that absolute morality objective keith
alt.atheism	political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes perhaps chimps that failed evolve cooperative behaviour died and left that evolve such behaviour chance that entire point you proclaim natural morality time organism evolves cooperative behaviour natural morality morality that developed naturally natural morality bee dance huh keith
alt.atheism	objective morality political atheists sandvik newton apple kent sandvik writes type morality you talking natural sense not immoral harm another species long doesn adversely affect your guess hehehe you this objective morality somehere tells you that this not case and you don rules such transcendental game systems objective system you talking goal brand morality you talking keith
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article apr bnr rashid writes article apr zeus calpoly edu jmunch hertz elee calpoly edu john munch wrote article apr bnr rashid writes not this charge shatim applies rushdie and encompassed umbrella fasad ruling define words shatim and fasad you use apologies shatim refers slandering spreading slander and lies prophets prophets basically prophet dealt busy hawking stolen merchandise selling swampland house lots florida you hear stories sexual abuse prophets and families victims paid quiet kind willful caulmny and cursing that word this explanation can come top head and technical definition time never mind that you this chevelle bought this dude you guessed prophet named mohammed car for two days tranny kicks manny mechanic tells loaded sawdust guess whether mohammed anywhere found don fasad difficult describe this not technical definition and that literally mohammed word fasad means mischief mischief order magnitude word corruption wrong begin seeks escalate hurt yeah you mohammed disorder concern harm etc mischief initially caused actions wrong specifically related attacks god and messenger and mischief corruption disorder etc you slimy mass pond scum resulting that attack not physical attack and levels penalty proscribed depending extent mischief and whether person persons sought make hay situation severest punishment death yeah you watching your butt you and your buddy allah stereo sold croaked two days your ass grass jim yeah that jim
alt.atheism	cruel political atheists kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes spent quite bit time wording constitution picked words meanings implied intent looked dictionary define word isn this sufficient question founding fathers cruel and unusual punishment hanging hanging slowing strangled painful physically and psychologicall imagine hangings quick and imagine painless firing squad note not clean die back days etc considered cruel your definition allowed constitution founding fathers and hangings and firing squads allowed today and things not considered cruel surely medical execution painless not keith
alt.atheism	cruel political atheists livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes spent quite bit time wording constitution realise that this widely held belief america fact clause cruel and unusual punishments lot rest lifted english bill rights wording not mean didn spend time wording looked dictionary define word isn this sufficient since dictionary that lack mercy intent inflict injury grief counted cruel people can described cruel this punishments cannot keith
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes religious law applies categorized belonging religion event judged applies this categorizing cheat hillary john laws local gop reprehensitive extolling traditional family values
alt.atheism	cruel political atheists article qnpa inn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes hanging hanging slowing strangled painful physically and psychologicall imagine hangings quick and imagine painless this misnomer firing squad note not clean die back days etc considered cruel your definition allowed constitution founding fathers and hangings and firing squads allowed today and things not considered cruel surely medical execution painless not this shows that painful execution not considered cruel and unusual punishment this shows that cruel used constitution not refer whether not punishment physical pain meaning cheat hillary john laws local gop reprehensitive extolling traditional family values
alt.atheism	nonexistance atheists article kutluk ccl umist kutluk ccl umist kutluk ozguven writes atheists not mentioned quran quranic point view and minute reasoning can that such thing guess that scientists aren mentioned stock brokers television repairmen precious deep brainwashing childhood that takes progress religion cleans substantial part reasoning neurons don mind don exist jim halat
alt.atheism	anecdote islam article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes deletion you don that rape and murder dealt lightly you interested leniency for leniency sake apparently that people simply told bad thing straw man and you brought leniency and simple chance misjudgements misjudgments avoided suspect that pretty that requirement repeated offenses that misjudgments likely assuming that misjudgements not correlated deletion love compare such lines common plea your fellow believers not call each names this case substantiate quran that beats wife into submission care give chapter and verse discuss discussed chapter and verse cited assume that you weren exact you not quran and your consequences shown primitive machism refers that misspelt that fault not orient follows qur you that not claimed that sufficient for argument lot male dominated societies that qualify machistic you that situation women sufficeint areas orient deletion this argument for you don religions that suppress sex such irrelevant argument you generalize objective statement fine response you reason for your statement that sex not business religion your arguments urge for sex adolescents not strong that overly strong measures required suppress urge sex strong adult that adult can make commensurate effort find marriage partner you apparently trouble reading things you don point sex wishes strong desire marriage red herring homosexuals for you simply ignore that doesn fit into world you and for situation adolescents your combination leniency and maiming mind whe you that not overly strong measures suppress urge for sex adolescents benedikt
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie article apr eagle wesleyan edu kmagnacca eagle wesleyan edu writes deletion nope germany extremely restrictive citizenship laws ethnic germans lived russia for years automatically become citizens move germany turks generation germany can that wrong can benedikt
alt.atheism	satanic jon livesey writes read papers that qumram texts had versions texts misunderstand reading newspapers learn this kind stuff not idea world newspaper reporters notoriously ignorant subject religion and prone exaggeration interests real story that bigger headline back this point masoretic text targums translations commentaries aramaic etc and septuagint ancient greek translation masoretic text standard jewish text and essentially not vary places obvious corruptions copied faithfully copy copy passages past interpreted reference targums and septuagint septuagint differs masoretic text two particulars includes additional texts and second passages variant readings masoretic text addition fixing predating corrupted passages emphasized that knowledge variations signifcant bible scholars and theological import dead sea scroll materials add this ancient copy almost isaiah and fragments sizes almost books abundance material sign hebrew antecdent apocrypha extra texts septuagint analysis proceeded variations dss texts and masoretic versions tend reflect septuagint isn error differences not significant theologically this big expectation that great theological surprises lurking material this hasn happened dss important almost textual tradition unlike for wingate peace god peace strife closed sod mangoe umd edu brothers pray for thing tove mangoe marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality frank frank dwyer writes ray netcom ray fischer writes frank frank dwyer writes questions for you subjectivists relativists nihilists het idea that relativism objectivism degree that relativism accurate decription truth objectivism power and ability control events you lose talk truth once you values relative accuracy judgement happens agree substance you below clear that values objective truth falsehood peace war education ignorance things agree that generally held good things question whether come close objective values that time another each viewed undesirable doubt you even come that universally good bad and referred truth term hypothetically realizing full that not even such thing assuming for moment that morals relative two relativists can recognize that lock absolute truth and can proceed negotiate workable compromise that produces desired results cannot acknowledge front that desired results not exist that meaning compromise problems relativists values common compromise impossible happens happens relativist never compromise plant bombs crowded shopping areas morals relative values cannot meaningfully incorrect true cannot personal morals thing notably lacking extremists sense personal accountability justification for socially unacceptable behaviour invariably higher authority aka absolute moral truth assuming that absolute morality two disagreeing objectivists can wrong room for compromise once you beleive absolute morals you accept that you amoral that disagrees you amoral untrue can accept that not truth part objective truth morality that flexibility rigidity compromise believing you lock morals etc can objective reality claiming mechanism for quantum collapse shot jfk objective truth that cannot objective truth interesting notion can morals belief that compromise good compromise absolute truth not people successfully suppose hold compromise absolute moral happens insists compromise you compromise compromising choice peaceful compromise endless contention that compromise and agree bloody pointless speak matter taste your liking for peace founded liking for ice cream for that question and relativism isn almost invariably relative thing another morals consequences people aspects justify desired action belief justifying commitement peace argue that lets people live long healthy and peaceful lives that true incomplete ignoring benefits war killing agressive member society trimming population stimulating production equation complex presented characterize relative morals conscience desires unduly simplify ray fischer convictions dangerous enemies truth ray netcom lies friedrich nietzsche
alt.atheism	islamic banks slavery article monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes apr bmw mayo edu vdp mayo edu vinayak dutt writes calling interest deposits you call returns investements and calling loans you call investing business that words floating stocks your company interest return investment for thing return investment greater risk and not set return amount money you make can you even lose money difference risk loss shared investor practically risk borrower borrower borrows bank stocks you call investor stocks banker your choice relabeling not make interest free not relabeling explained relabeling not interest free investor taking money dividend investment ofcourse investor islamic banking your called bank taking risk usual bank getting thing back return you heard junk bonds vinayak vinayak dutt mail vdp mayo edu standard disclaimers apply
alt.atheism	don stinking subjects article avinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes kcochran nyx edu keith justified and ancient cochran writes keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes kcochran nyx edu keith justified and ancient cochran writes you claim you prove cold fusion provided examples show that trend general and you provided counterexamples surrounding mating practices etc don that cases disprove general trend natural morality and mating practices reexamined you that your mind made and you explain differences statistically insignificant find immoral mating related activities you excluding mating related activities your natural morality mating practices special case you explain inconsistancies your theory special case that natural system can objectively deduced goal species propogation mind not equating two you that objective system isn necessarily natural you you not man wrote natural moral system objective moral system that animals follow natural system objective objective systems not natural terms can not equated natural system subset objective you equated read your words since homosexuality observed animals including birds and dolphins you claim that animals capacity immoral don claim that homosexuality immoral isn harmful isn helpful mating process and you that homosexuality observed animal kingdom don you mean bisexuality study release found that female seagulls lesbians that goals not inherent that postulates not determine argued that arise natural goal somewhat removed postulate assume posit that goals aren inherent can create theory postulate that sun revolves earth that moon made green cheese and stars portions angels that intrudes into dimensional reality you such contradict observations apply this last sentence your your theory notice your contridicting observations can build mathematical proof postulate that length side triangle length second side triangle and degree angle connecting can determine length side postulate that generally found true don your postulate valid you don math you ability use sas determine length side triangle fundemental geometry guess people receptive order assume your system you show that your postulates work and goals survival and happiness work you don not good goals goals postulates goals this objective natural morality system you proposing survival species homosexuality immoral kcochran nyx edu tsakc thoughts posts ideas responsibility beer pizza
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality qkq horus mchp sni frank writes attempting define objective morality wild guess and freedom objectively valuable base this assumption that world deprived utterly freedom that act contrary volition almost want complain long you that almost freedom will valuable thing people that you real big lot people agree freedom subjectively valuable that good and quite nice starting point for moral system not universal and not objective that assert that freedom not valuable almost can that bit absurd assert not raining rainy day isn sahara disclaimer great young and insane
alt.atheism	political atheists article qinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes kcochran nyx edu keith justified and ancient cochran writes schneider natural morality specifically thought code ethics that species developed order survive wait talking ethics morals distinction important this countless times animal kingdom and such natural system basis for system huh moral system mimic natural number ways describe number ways detail explain contradictions that arise order for humans thrive live groups your problem wrong highlighted word don wrong for humans survive for long time wild difficult humans social animal and that success define difficult and order for group function effectively sort ethical code this statement not correct isn don you explain laws america stating that you drive hand side road and pointing that species conduct serves propogate not give you your tautology show that such examples moral systems goal propogation species goal natural system morality lives monagamous relationship not moral order ensure propogation species man impregnate women noted earlier lack mating such abstinence homosexuality isn destructive system worst neutral member species homosexual this wouldn destructive survival species for that matter herds horses dominate stallion mates dies killed dominate stallion mates case your natural system morality shoot figurative foot mating practices reexamined theory reexamined kcochran nyx edu tsakc thoughts posts ideas responsibility beer pizza
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality article ursa bear halat pooh bears jim halat writes article qjd nlv horus mchp sni frank frank dwyer writes firstly science basis values not round you explain objective atoms and subjective values atoms not objective aren even real scientists call atom nothing mathematical model that describes physical observable properties surroundings subjective rest deleted you liberal arts major weren tcha guess you never that photo smallest logo world ibm made noble gas atoms krypton xenon forget specifics atoms trees electrons independently observable and verifiable morals aren difference tep men love brown tend warm and deep sensitive and desires partners sex hour day thing snuggling fire walking rain catching snowflakes tongue real turn lover brown becka
alt.atheism	death penalty political atheists jbrown batman bmd trw writes apr batman bmd trw responding dave official nickname fuller death penalty deterrent dave person executed will never commit crime guaranteed that means that effective anti recidivism measure not that deters individual committing capital crime place true question whether threat death likely stop murdering commiting treason capital crimes anywhere usa that death penalty introduction deter criminal committing crime doubt this step even strong deterrent short complete deterrent reject for case innocent executed and even eliminate this possibility reject death penalty immoral this makes radical issue opponents captial punishment agree find innocent executed strongest argument make magically charge facilitate state aided suicide for criminals life sentences this replacement for capital punishment don want live rest lives jail this option scott sauyet ssauyet eagle wesleyan edu
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu writes society good reason for rape and murder consistent position and hold that wrong basis morality not societal norms current legalities basis surprise surprise bible and inherent moral abhorrences exactly inherently abhorrent and you effect things repulsive and bunch people agree deemed absolutely immoral and forever period and nice extent agree you not agree that things inherently absolutely immoral labeled immoral each for good reason and reason can even theoretically change can label that vague and top head defend that humans similarly made that falls into trap creation doesn humans extent similar belong species that that species evolved another story altogether extent evolution can even lend credence moral absolutism flavour arguments that exhibit trust goodness love respect courage and honesty society deceipt hatred disrespect cowardness and dishonesty you morality society alive and kicking point societies not alike and moralities haven and thesis don since hold that created similarly similar identical that makes unfalsifiable thesis and work can and punt fellow theists falsifiable finding someoe created that real world disclaimer great young and insane
alt.atheism	rushdie islamic law article qla afp fido asd sgi livesey solntze wpd sgi jon livesey writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes hope islamic bank bcci ripped small depositors muslim community and grow childish propagandist gregg pointed that practice things aren quite wonderful utopia you folks claim upsets you you such thing bbci example islamically owned and operated bank will bet weren real islamic owners and operators islamic bank bank operates rules islam regard banking this explicitly bank this not case bcci and naive depositors put life savings into bcci nasty interest motivated western bank street this crap bcci motivated motives international banks perhaps emphasis dealing outlaws and intelligence services governments don con into thinking that will work time back childish propaganda you life wasting bandwith such empty typing thousands islamic banks operating world hears you want talk corrupted banks can talk people robbed american banks gregg
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie article qlb oinn shelley washington edu jimh carson washington edu james hogan writes come senses and accept knowing wisdom and power quran and allah not that allah drops congratulate wise choice allah rolls bones and allah gets crisco bends and invites spin block wow realize that allah for commitment ready for man programming gotta call you thinking renounce islam loyalty jim you reading russell hoban hemingway imitators imitate bad aspects writing hoban doubt gregg
alt.atheism	years can that christian morality article news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes qlapk morrow stanford edu salem pangea stanford edu bruce salem writes article jrde news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes theory creationism theistic view theory creationism stated genesis beginning god created heavens and earth wonderful alittle imaginative thinking huh imaginative thinking that world existed forever and never created and endless supply energy and spontaneous generation life life that make wise and knowing and imaginative theory warren kurt vonroeschlaub iastate edu iowa state university math department carver hall ames
alt.atheism	you will hell jsn psuvm psu edu jsn psuvm psu edu writes cares fellow wrote mean psuvm possibly importance disperse smileys longer offended disclaimer great young and insane
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie anecdote islam article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes not allowed leave domain authority free leave islam regards islamic law curse leaving islam death cheat hillary john laws local gop reprehensitive extolling traditional family values
alt.atheism	death penalty political atheists article apr daffy wisc edu mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes you exagerate point libel gave unpopular reasons deliberately you that iraq absorb kuwait make tired poland comparison you heard principle aplies never play chamberlain and roll another country invaded that invites invasions perhaps not supported genocidist provided weapon systems tactical support technology etc made suddam hussein bush call ally and freind cheat hillary john laws local gop reprehensitive extolling traditional family values
alt.atheism	you will hell article tan psuvm psu edu andrew newell tan psuvm psu edu writes article jsn psuvm psu edu jsn psuvm psu edu writes you blashephemers you will hell for not believing god prepared for your eternal damnation readers group convenient that doesn real name start letters sysadmin real name jeremy scott noonan vmoper psuvm psu edu authority email postmast psuvm bitnet rfowles wverity sys admins node idea operator benedikt
alt.atheism	inimitable rushdie anecdote islam article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes deletion central aspect islam show mercy and give wrong even presuming rushdie violate islamic law and committed crimes this basis for posts leniency not penetrated benedikt skull you demanded harsh punishments crimes repeating offenders slipped justification harsh punishment typically religious doublespeak whenever you contradictory statements you choose possibility that suits your current argument disgusting that ideas that make theodore kkkaldis feel cozy can protection religion gregg you kill idolaters benedikt
alt.atheism	islam and scientific predictions genocide caused atheism article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes and god almighty created night and day and sun and earth celetial bodies swim each rounded holy quran hmm this agrees ptolemic system earth centre planets orbitting round copernicus and gallileo wrong you haven read carefully you you will that doesn circling not moving circles evidence that rounded general sense wishy washy statements not scientific benedikt
alt.atheism	wholly babble free moral agency article psilink robert knowles psilink writes deletion book subgenius and that collection writings ftp site benedikt
comp.graphics	call for presentations navy sciviz seminar call for presentations navy scientific visualization and virtual reality seminar tuesday june carderock division naval surface warfare center david taylor research center bethesda maryland sponsor ness navy engineering software system sponsoring day navy scientific visualization and virtual reality seminar purpose seminar present and exchange information for navy related scientific visualization and virtual reality programs research developments and applications presentations presentations solicited aspects navy related scientific visualization and virtual reality current work works progress and proposed work navy organizations will considered types presentations regular presentation minutes length short presentation minutes length video presentation stand alone videotape author not attend seminar scientific visualization virtual reality demonstration byoh accepted presentations will not published proceedings viewgraphs and materials will reproduced for seminar attendees abstracts authors submit page abstract and videotape robert lipman naval surface warfare center carderock division code bethesda maryland voice fax mail lipman oasys navy mil authors include type presentation affiliations addresses telephone and fax numbers and addresses multi author papers designate point contact deadlines abstact submission deadline april notification acceptance will materials for reproduction received june for information contact robert lipman address distribute widely robert lipman internet lipman oasys navy mil david taylor model basin cdnswc lip ocean navy mil computational signatures and voicenet structures group code factsnet bethesda maryland phishnet stockings long legs sixth sick shiek sixth sheep sick
comp.graphics	graphical representation vector valued functions gnuplot etc make easy plot real valued functions variables want plot functions values vectors this plotting arrays arrows complete arrowheads thought whether work pointers advance tom weston usenet weston ucssun sdsu edu department philosophy office san diego state univ home san diego
comp.graphics	dmorph article apr usl edu jna ucs usl edu armstrong jay writes can can ftp dta dmorph dmorf dave morph means and dtax dave tga assembler msdos uploads directory wuarchive arjed and bundled respective xmemory versions dmorfx exe and dtax exe you can find version aaplay exe you can view files you create dta exe dtax exe downloaded bunch last week and morphing afternoons since programmes bit buggy and not ready spread masses written interface frustrating gets easy once you figure tricks noticed that dmorfx will crash horribly you morph splines option not since don source written for comes hints getting thing work hours time figure that used durned splines work jna jna usl edu ryan rap cis ufl edu
comp.graphics	voice input vendor information needed add voice input capability user interface developing unix workstation greatly information care offer voice input systems that easily accessible unix environment names adresses applicable vendors experiences you had specific systems helpful respond email will post summary sufficient interest ken found impressive systems for ibm avoid hassle purchasing and maintaining separate ken hinckley kph virginia edu university virginia neurosurgical visualization laboratory
comp.graphics	can find sipp recently file describing library rendering routines called sipp simple polygon processor can ftp source code and newest version never used renderman wondering renderman sipp library rendering routines make program that creates image joe tham joe tham joth ersys edmonton
comp.graphics	million thousand colors dtek chalmers henrik harmsen writes bits per horrible machbanding visible almost picture bits per colors visible machbanding color gradient picture almost machbanding this color resolution small machbanding smooth color gradient picture situiations you visible mach banding even bit card you create smooth color gradient dark green white yellow and turn contrast monitor you will mach banding don mean damn henrik attempt helpful common misconception that corrected mach banding will occur for image not color quantization you you don bits human eye response transitions edges intensities result that colors transistion brighter brighter side and darker darker side andre andre yew andrey cco caltech edu
comp.graphics	translating tttddd dxf swiv mac user comes graphics that software and hardware for and recently come across large number tttddd format modeling databases software mac unix for translating use dxf reply email eric oehler oehler picard wisc edu
comp.graphics	renderman language wanted you pixar renderman scene description language for creating worlds renderman library documentation nextstep version renderman can create complicated scenes and render surface shaders can not bring life applying shadows and reflections understand define environmental and shadows maps produce reflections and shadows not use advises simple rib examples will appreciated advance alex kolesov moscow russia talus imaging communications corporation mail alex talus msk mail accepted
comp.graphics	gray levels screen article tut lehtori tut kouhia juhana writes article apr kpc hollasch kpc steve hollasch writes you proposal work extra two extra bits color resolution you had display that chould full intensity for each primary don you great equivalent bit photographs not suggested wrote problems and problem visible bit images not mention bit images description experiment deleted bit images viewed quickly and sync screen intensities dunno deleted case getting black color slow machines problem bit screens don render pixels constant time recall double buffer image color and that doesn dump photos screen low level code years ago friend and grey level photos bit mac screen this method displaying levels synchronized display seconds experimenting aperture settings and screen brightnesses found range that worked giving respectable contrast quality images pretty good visible contrast bands minimize exposure time display program built bit frames contained dot for pixels that had second for pixels that had etc frames stored sparse data structure that fast screen sequence creating frames sometimes minutes that mac camera shutter closed that time and wrote directly screen memory mea culpa biggest problem that small images displayed top left corner screen center extra week film developed and printed processors trouble manually move images into center print guessed regards jon rowlands
comp.graphics	gray levels screen article btg csc rowlands jon rowlands writes years ago friend and grey level photos bit mac screen this method displaying levels synchronized display seconds didn you create grey level images and display for time slices this requires total exposure time and precision timing drastically reduces image preparation time kenneth sloan computer and information sciences sloan cis uab edu university alabama birmingham campbell hall uab station fax birmingham
comp.graphics	rumours article zola esd sgi erik westworld esd sgi erik fortune writes cdi cdi not agree horsepower horsepower not measurement for not full motion full screen video rom starting quarter multiplayer will manufactured panasonic and will late this year number manufacturers reported compatible boxes works manufacturers date this information hand and worth you paid for this second hand hard future lex van sonderen lex aimla philips interactive media
comp.graphics	visuallib graphics for windows for graphics library that runs windows such libraries visuallib run vga and not require add graphics cards for visuallib will run metaware high compiler email contact for author visuallib appreciated chua teck joo information technology institute email teckjoo iti gov science park drive phone singapore fax
comp.graphics	graphics library package for recommandation good royalty free graphics library package for and program this use write children games and education software heard mentioned genus and gfx good pardon question sounds strange asking this question for friend advance caroline tsang cst garfield catt ncsu edu
comp.graphics	rumours article eyz optimla aimla lex optimla aimla lex van sonderen writes article zola esd sgi erik westworld esd sgi erik fortune writes cdi cdi not agree horsepower horsepower not measurement for not full motion full screen video rom starting quarter multiplayer will manufactured panasonic and will late this year number manufacturers reported compatible boxes works manufacturers date marketing rep recently offered phillips marketing rep bet that boxes market schedule phillips rep declined bet knew that players pre production manufacturing runs months commercial release date time commercial release will manufacturers players announced and possibly tooling production chip sets will full production number software companies designing titles for box will this bar road headquarters last week folks bullshitting loudly company business this information hand and worth you paid for this second hand hard future lex van sonderen lex aimla philips interactive media impartial source
comp.graphics	graphics library package 
comp.graphics	wanted sird alogorythmn interested writing program generate sird picture you stereogram you cross your eyes and picture becomes can mail steveq sndcrft dialix replies for your steve
comp.graphics	graphics packages for aix good graphics packages for ibm aix for dec gks hewlett packards starbase good support for output devices plotters terminals etc xgks distribution and ibm implementation phigs work require output devices windows salesman ibm not familiar graphics and not expecting for good solutions ari ari suutari ari carel carelcomp lappeenranta finland
comp.graphics	hardcopy colored window mars ixos martin stein writes use xwd xpr dist and programs ppm tools print hardcopies colored windows problem don xpr version louzy output hardcopy grainy use pnmtops this takes full advantage postscript and lets printer dirty job dithering graylevel image black and white dots you postscript printer xwdtopnm xwdfile convert ppm ppmtopgm graylevel for smaller file print pnmtops noturn postscript lpr print pnmtops neat options use care you want your image wide use pnmtops noturn scale width noturn prevents image rotated wider high width specifies paper width not image width below scale used image small fit width and will printed smaller wide you scale lot will not fit and will scaled pnmtops automatically fit paper width short pnmtops will scale image fit paper size will not blow automatically hope this helps marcel marcel wijkstra aio wijkstra fwi uva faculty mathematics and computer science university amsterdam netherlands life stinks fortunately cold
comp.graphics	gray levels screen article apr cis uab edu sloan cis uab edu kenneth sloan writes didn you create grey level images and display for time slices grey level images you mean items bit images work doesn work you bit your screen and screen intensity linear bit per pixel timing this levels linear screen intensity linear works find compinations levels choises chosen compinations for level varies bit levels order readers verify wrote juhana kouhia
comp.graphics	for ctds can find ctds connect dots smoother france commercial program happily pay cost not litterally lots pov sources texture images and animations you for
comp.graphics	pov previewer write this encounter problems drawing wireframe view quadric quartic requires that you explicit equation quadric quartic functions parameters convert implicit equation used pov explicit mathematically don math find heard books subject
comp.graphics	real time graphics article taurus nps navy mil stockel oahu nps navy mil jim stockel writes will writing data acquisition program collect data variety sources including and external and display data realtime this type thing and machines unaware graphics package that this unix machine ideas commercial free packages that suit input this times for commerical package wave precision visuals for free package khoros university mexico ftp ptrg eece unm edu login anonyomus ftp valid email address password pub khoros release that will you place david
comp.graphics	bgi drivers for svga require bgi drivers for super vga displays and super xvga displays obtain relevant drivers ftp sites regards simon crowe
comp.graphics	vesa speedstar kjb mgl uvesa zip this universal vesa driver supports video boards chipsets include speedstar and bit color terry speedstar and and works not software for instance doesn work animator pro autodesk can detect svga modes running univesa this problem vesa driver for pro and color stuff curiosity you latest version versions previous this not fill capabilities bits and information correctly had problems lot software this version don author posting announcementof missed directory use version works fine software not animator pro and that quite important pretty useless program that thing working imho hope author can fix that daniel daniel falk don quote comments ebenezum great wizard fad tekn fad hjds mega famous musician jkpg sweeeeeden leinad yellow
comp.graphics	set bear this game explain exactly dmorf simply fade bitmap into another shape bitma into another excuse ignorance not even posted thi message correctly
comp.graphics	wanted for dmorf bear this game apologize unreservedly hav posted another message earlier mistake digress ere explain exactly dmorf dtax exe simply fade bitmap into another reshape bitmap into another excuse ignor ance
comp.graphics	test 
comp.graphics	rumours hit software product encourage software sales product pong pacman visicalc dbase pagemaker multi media multi media and digital television products albeit not capable compelling reasons buy such perhaps this news group will write that hit software
comp.graphics	technical sought for details graphics compression techniques you obtain descriptions algo rithms public domain source codes for such formats jpeg gif and fractals immensely grateful you share info this for project contemplating advance reply mail hbj
comp.graphics	surface normal orientations rendering programs require that surface normals point direction closed cube normals point outwards you can use points faces determine direction normal making that points clockwise counter clockwise order you orienting normals direction set points edges and faces that you had cube faces that normals facing outwards for face realize that face flipped and points ordered thought had good telling this realized that algorithm had you you had points clockwise order for polygon for data hints tips references appreciated steve humor concerned standards can good bad you can that will john kenneth galbraith opinions
comp.graphics	graphics library package wgt wordup graphics toolkit designed and programmer and brother chris egerter turbo borland graphics library for programming vga producing shareware years commercial product excuse typos backspace this terminal features include loading and saving bit images called blocks flipping resizing and warping blocks loading and saving palette fading memory once graphics primitives such line circle bar rectangle region fill not useless floodfill sprites animated bitmaps onscreen once joystick mouse support support voc and cmf tile based game creation pixel tiles create tile map game world duke nuke number sprites increased professional sprite creator utility and map maker routines simplify scrolling games maps etc fli playing routines sprites can animated fli playing pcx support gif ems xms coming leave mail barry egerter egerter obelix gaul csd uwo files use mget wgt zip simtel and mirrors msdos turbo nic funet pub msdos games programming sites not recent files contact for info date information
comp.graphics	signature image database contact signaware corp original memo bcc vincent wall imaging club subject signature verification date sci image processing yyqi ece arizona edu yingyong subject signature image database organization arizona electrical and computer engineering database handwriting signature images for evaluating signature verification systems
comp.graphics	surface normal orientations article apr cis uab edu sloan cis uab edu kenneth sloan writes brilliant algorithm not correct sign change flaw obvious and will not shown that kenneth sloan computer and information sciences sloan cis uab edu university alabama birmingham campbell hall uab station fax birmingham
comp.graphics	genoa blitz hits this genoa card nothing that ati ultra can ati costs street price
comp.graphics	surface normal orientations article pscti aqe travis csd harris srp travis csd harris stephen pietrowicz writes you orienting normals direction set points edges and faces for edge inconsistencies two vertices and connected edge edge not and edges surface flips you travel across that edge this bad assuming warning warning warning that you acceptable surface you can pick edge edge and traverse surface enforcing consistency that edge pick edge and mark for each face containing this edge oops make that edges consistent face flip wrong mark edges and add queue check for duplicates and inconsistencies don queue and remove edge queue and marked edge discovered inconsistent you lose step finds face sharing edge you lose edges will consistent means that surface normals will point deciding left exercise kenneth sloan computer and information sciences sloan cis uab edu university alabama birmingham campbell hall uab station fax birmingham
comp.graphics	surface normal orientations pscti aqe travis csd harris srp travis csd harris stephen pietrowicz writes you orienting normals direction set points edges and faces this algorithm works for algorithm attempt find outward facing normals mark faces unknown create edge dictionary that you find faces sharing edge edge two integers representing two shared vertices pick arbitrary face and mark counter clockwise edge dictionary orient surrounding faces based orientation this face and recurse for surrounding faces consistently orienting entire surface find average vertices this surface that point calculate volume measurement taking into account face orientation volume turns positive assume faces oriented correctly negative reverse orientations mark clockwise faces unknown this choose another face and algorithm end faces marked clockwise indices reversed facet normals found note you running silicon graphics machines and buy iris inventor toolkit developers package you source this algorithm usr src inventor tools ivnorm you not can give source and even relies heavily inventor gavin gavin sgi
comp.graphics	million thousand colors andrey cco caltech edu andre yew writes dtek chalmers henrik harmsen writes bits per horrible machbanding visible almost picture bits per colors visible machbanding color gradient picture almost machbanding this color resolution small machbanding smooth color gradient picture situiations you visible mach banding even bit card you create smooth color gradient dark green white yellow and turn contrast monitor you will mach banding don mean damn henrik attempt helpful common misconception that corrected mach banding will occur for image not color quantization you you don bits human eye response transitions edges intensities result that colors transistion brighter brighter side and darker darker side andre yeah term mach banding not correct color quantization effect bad color quantization effect result visible mach bands picture that smooth quantizised henrik harmsen internet dtek chalmers chalmers university technology sweden haven lost mind backed tape
comp.graphics	real time graphics article apr falcon aamrl wpafb mil dsnyder falcon aamrl wpafb mil writes article taurus nps navy mil stockel oahu nps navy mil jim stockel writes opps typed phone numbers wrong correct numbers for commerical package wave precision visuals for free package khoros university mexico ftp ptrg eece unm edu login anonyomus ftp valid email address password pub khoros release
comp.graphics	iges viewer for dos windows iges viewer for dos windows display computervision iges files running windows advance brian safford email bsaffo cad gmeds electronic data systems phone note views and opinions expressed mine and not reflect electronic data systems corp
comp.graphics	computer graphics vcr friend and class project make computer animated movie sorts disney animation and put vcr this easy and relatively cheap ibm compatibles relatively clueless computers you brant ritter moshing cosmic cesspool physical delight kiedas rhcp
comp.graphics	stereoscopic imaging interested information stereoscopic imaging sun workstation for part hardware interface system and whether refresh rates sufficient produce quality image representations information subject greatly appreciated
comp.graphics	fractals good article pdxgate idr rigel pdx edu ian romanick writes thing small change initial conditions can huge change final conditions things plate tektoniks and volcanic activity effect land scape that not random unpredictable this true fractals conclude that you model this fractally yeah and true long complicated sequences events calculations big computer programs general don argue that you can similar and results fractals question whether you fractal fiends that part system that can model replaced random number generator that for instance making data palatable human perception for torture testing rest system don fractals and that model improved explicable manner guess haven earth shaking fractal models that explain and correlate universe exists hope not holding similar breath thing that fractals good for fractal image compression huh chasing fractal compression for years and don great come don competing jpeg can wager wagered quit make fractal compression work and don reasonable alternative techniques neat reiterate disbelief that fractal that don fractal compression widely explained practical barnsley and sloan tricks sleeves that make demos work don real product six years since iterated systems formed questions product sloan replies company plans ship encoding devices summer march iterated systems will half system decoders scientific american march page allen don even started
comp.graphics	complex real and imaginary parts bio medical images complex bio medical images anywhere net for experimentation complex mean that sampled data point magnitude and phase information for pointers vishwa
comp.graphics	mpeg for dos can ftp mpeg for dos for advance email preferred posting fine scott lord soth knight email lordsoth uiuc black rose sas sumter cso uiuc edu clue want won
comp.graphics	 complete list polygons that order summarize net had compiled option
comp.graphics	colors display you set palette you drawing colours use bios interrupt calls set values range for cards for palette colour range for colour modes you draw pixels palette values and result you bit colourmap compressing you unique rgb triplets for colour mode geoff thomas geoffrey cosc canterbury computer science dept university canterbury private bag christchurch oook zealand
comp.graphics	rumours stgprao unocal richard ottolini writes hit software product encourage software sales product pong pacman visicalc dbase pagemaker multi media multi media and digital television products albeit not capable compelling reasons buy such perhaps this news group will write that hit software had good fortune hired electronic arts senior computer graphics artist vancouver canada office timing lot putting lot resources into not titles developed will happy post things develop start markus tessmann
comp.graphics	quicktime movie article johnsh mustang stu rpi edu wrote used recently released macintosh application mpeg quicktime convert excellent mpeg canyon mpg into quicktime movie want this movie perfectly convert thought net that glad mail copies mine movie conversion close six hours poor iicx words you quadra you not want tie your machine converting this file movie fast fly fractal generated canyon landscape movie seconds long and compact video compressor quicktime movie bit displays and absolutely awesome and bit displays happy mail this movie people for caveat you receive megabyte mail message movie stuff megs binhex ruined that party people want this movie evidence that net dedicated quicktime ftp archive site mon gotta spare drive received lot requests for movie for simplicity sake can mail received edt tuesday pop site sooner hugh johnson johnsh rpi edu rensselaer polytechnic institute macintosh troy york usa
comp.graphics	msc code view save images dear binary newsers for quick microsoft code for image decoding file for vga viewing and saving images gif tiff pcx jpeg format scoured internet find seuss spell checker tsr and reinvent wheel advance internet black hole
comp.graphics	autocad tiff can realize that this faq since don change read this newsgroup for senior project convert autocad file tiff file don telling that autocad file vector file and tiff bit map since heard that times this point direction greatly appreciated matt georgy
comp.graphics	gamma law correction digitizing ntsc signal and displaying video monitor that display response tubes linear and sometimes follow gamma law not linearities gamma corrected encoding ntsc signals display supposed correct this grey levels for example coded program intensity levels linear brightness monitor words monitor display circuitry correct for gamma errrors your response appreciated amjad amjad soomro ccs computer science center maryland college park email amjad wam umd edu
comp.graphics	mpeg for windows mono needed and you for reading this request mpeg viewer for windows and not run running monochrome monitor mono driver for mpeg play post location file mail mlee eng sdsu edu
comp.graphics	thining algorithm article innmi shelley washington edu kshin stein washington edu kevin shin writes obtain program preprocess handwriting characters thining algorithm graph alogrithm can obtain use algorithms for graphics and image processing theodosios pavlidis people idea and copies libraries stolen another reference digital image processing gonzalez and wintz wood widely expensive checked today
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance article apr galki toppoint ulrich galki toppoint writes tiff specification tiff version number bytes chosen for deep philosophical significance last week read hitchhikers guide galaxy this picked number and not amused time read that part tiff spec infuriates and happy complexity spec arbitrary carefully chosen number additionally find choice bytes begin file meaningless not use letters tiff and don bothered support word orders and found that tiff readers don
comp.graphics	vga graphics mode gchen essex ecn uoknor edu writes article doh constellation ecn uoknor edu set vga graphics mode info appreciated vesa bios support this mode and vga support this colors since requires bytes vesa tsr supports this vesa mode card can support due restrictions paradise not responsible for opinion robert kyanko rob rjck
comp.graphics	weitek abraxis iastate edu writes article abraxis class iastate edu weitek graphics chip micron selling systems rank winmarks info supposedly high performance chip based workstation graphics accelerators quite fast usual boards chips drivers buggy for windows winmarks depends version winmarks version yielded number benchmarked this wintach memory low level stuff pretty nice this quadrilateral fill command that requires points fast beware buggy drivers and windows support not responsible for opinion robert kyanko rob rjck
comp.graphics	delaunay triangulation article lsk inn caspian usc edu zyeh caspian usc edu zhenghao yeh writes delaunay triangulation reference for creating objects advantage used create tin triangulated irregular network basically bunch triangles form surface group points special that triangles formed equalateral check proceedings autocarto don specific reference describing process michael
comp.graphics	graphic formats writing utilies convert regis and tektonic esacpe sequences into formats not goto bitmap format can convert window meta files easily convert corel draw cdr power point ppt files microsoft not give format wondering formats for two applications
comp.graphics	nice gif code thing called xgif xgif grandfather
comp.graphics	rumours archer archer bad cop surly archer elysium esd sgi archer interactive sex madonna sexium for short lars lars fischer fischer iesd auc takes uncommon mind dept aalborg univ denmark things calvin
comp.graphics	forms for curses note followup header steelem rintintin colorado edu steele mark writes collection forms routines that can used curses located svr amiga unix box lform lmenu and lpanel for use curses library guess provide unix press prentice hall programmer guide for tools referred fmli forms mgmt language interface and eti extended terminal interface edition isbn paraphrased back cover fmli high level programming tool for creating menus forms and text frames eti set screen management library subroutines that promote fast development application programs for window panel menu and form manipulation fmli shell package reads ascii text files and produces screen displays for data entry and presentation consists shell environment fmli program and database files section unix press manual eti subroutines part manual section provide support for multi window capability ordinary ascii terminal controls built top curses library mark steele steelem rintintin colorado edu frank crash edwards edwards edwards consulting voice crash ckctpa myrddin sybus data don uunet route sloooow will times life you meet smiles and pats you back and tells you great you hold your wallet
comp.graphics	view pov files merkelbd sage purdue edu brian merkel writes article apr ornl gov ednobles sacam oren ortn edu edward nobles writes view tga files created povray diamond speedstar video board not can convert jpeg cjpeg and view cview that displays bit color for convert and view bit univesa uvesa zip and dvpeg viewer don perhaps not setting univesa properly ideas this feel free enlighten want darn things real color image alchemy aka alchemy will view tga files that pov outputs and format you can will convert shareware ftp somwhere netland yep alchemy works fine tseng dac remember reading that displays bit that colors nothing sneeze use flag neal miller not mad millernw craft camp clarkson edu clarkson university ford prefect dark craft camp clarkson edu
comp.graphics	hot software product for ibm ers called imagine and started shipping yesterday can personally attest that will blow doors studio made impulse and version for ibm can morphing your standard key framming animation raytracer reflections shadows and can apply special objects ripple explode bounce things that nature algorithmic texture maps and your standard brushmapping you can animated brushmaps live video mapped objs animated backdrops live video backgrounds animted reflections maps you idea will run for retail dont low price fool you this product can comes animation and renderering imagine mailing list mail you post number for impulse trb msstate edu
comp.graphics	hot software previous article trb msstate edu tony boutwell product for ibm ers called imagine and started shipping yesterday can personally attest that will blow doors studio made impulse and don competing studio pretty powerful allright imagine mailing list mail you post send mail imagine request email paramax header subscribe work faq frequently asked questions version week you want mail you previous details list etc answering basic questions imagine hope this helps michael comet software engineer graphics artist cwru mbc cwru edu silence oppose freedom speech
comp.graphics	vga graphics mode article snx rjck rob rjck robert kyanko writes gchen essex ecn uoknor edu writes article doh constellation ecn uoknor edu set vga graphics mode info appreciated vesa bios support this mode and vga support this colors since requires bytes vesa tsr supports this vesa mode card can support due restrictions paradise not responsible for opinion robert kyanko rob rjck ahh possibly you punched wrong numbers your calculator color modes byte per pixel time exact takes don bios mode wouldn bet that vga cards can that vga card bet can and that definition svga not high svga
comp.graphics	tin files coutours working project that create contour lines random data points work that tells that into triangulated irregular networks tin delauney criiterion and krige method suggestions for references programs and hopefully source code for creating contours this surface modeling greatly appreciated can reached addresses below paul conway pvconway copper denver colorado edu pvconway cudnvr denver colorado edu
comp.graphics	apr toronto siggraph event toronto siggraph chance art graphics and animation indigo ken evans imagicians artware inc tuesday april mcluhan centre for culture and technology university toronto queen park crescent toronto members and members alike members encouraged become members abstract imagicians artware inc entering into early beta site testing silicon graphics workstations abstract artwork and animation package called chance art package will described and demonstrated and technical issues will discussed marketing plans will outlined talk will present technical and business problems increasingly confronting small startup software companies today and opportunities this situation presents time event will allocated for hands demonstrations interested parties silicon graphics graciously providing indigo for this event myck kupka will demonstrating computerized interactive reflective stereoscope installed upstairs mcluhan centre feel free drop for demonstration event btw sing happy birthday myck names nominees for siggraph executive offices will announced this meeting nominations will open election event call myck kupka fax directions mcluhan coachhouse east side queen park crescent north wellesley south joseph east queen park crescent centre for mediaeval studies for information toronto siggraph membership contact michael mccool internet mccool dgp utoronto voice fax
comp.graphics	delaunay triangulation zyeh caspian usc edu zhenghao yeh writes delaunay triangulation reference delaunay triangulation geometrical dual voronoi tessellation and constructions derived natural neighbor order aurenhammer voronoi diagrams survey fundamental geometric data structure acm computing surveys okabe boots and sugihara spatial tessellations concepts and applications voronoi diagrams wiley sons york isbn watson computing dimensional delaunay tessellation application voronoi polytopes computer watson natural neighbour sorting australian computer dave watson internet watson maths uwa edu department mathematics university western australia tel nedlands australia fax
comp.graphics	ansi aiim standard image file format wing suggestion stu lynne posted image file format executable and source code alt sources herman silbiger
comp.graphics	view pov files article apr ornl gov ednobles sacam oren ortn edu edward nobles writes view tga files created povray diamond speedstar video board not can convert jpeg cjpeg and view cview that displays bit color for convert and view bit want darn things real color jim nobles program for viewing such files vpic you want version current you view and bit modes quite nice for return question you run windows dates your drivers newest can find problem conflict star trek dark and things willing bet that drivers and not programs info newer not drivers for windows justin
comp.graphics	for circle algorithm faster bresenhams article apr nwnexus mpdillon halcyon michael dillon writes algorithm similar bresenhams line drawing algorithm that draws line stepping minor axis and drawing slices aaaa bbbb cccc diagram aaaa bbbb cccc that bresenhams run length slice algorithm for incremental lines fundamental algorithms for computer graphics springer verlag berlin heidelberg extrapolate this circles can figure determine length slices ideas hmm don can you this you double step incremental generation lines and circles and rokne computer graphics and image processing vol mar double step generation ellipses and rokne ieee computer graphics applications graeme gill
comp.graphics	mail michael abrash 
comp.graphics	fonts pov ray traced scenes mtv rayshade stroked fonts appearing objects image fonts chars had color depth and even textures associated wondering pov noel
comp.graphics	polygon reduction for marching cubes dear reader searching for implementation polygon reduction algorithm for marching cubes surfaces reduction algorithm schroeder siggraph implementation this algorithm nice you leave for fast connectivity test for marching cubes surfaces hints will lot ooo ooo erwin keeve adress peter welter platz cologne germany dept computergraphics phone computeranimation fax academy media arts cologne email keeve khm uni koeln
comp.graphics	dmpeg zip info another dos mpeg decoder player posted posted dos mpeg decoder player alt binaries pictures utilities short description and technical information accompanying documentation dmpeg public domain mpeg decoder stefan eckart features dmpeg dmplay another mpeg decoder player for decodes full mpeg video standard frames frame size supported saves decoded sequence bit raw file for display optional screen display decoding requires vga dithering options ordered dither floyd steinberg grayscale color space selection runs dos ram windows required compact small code small data models bit arithmetic real time display raw file separate player for vga and super vgas technical information player straightforward implementation mpeg spec idct based chen wang multiplication algorithm not quite optimum blocks not coefficients use separated direct multiply accumulate idct sounds great doesn turned faster fast algorithm this quite common case dithering pretty standard main difference berkeley decoder for fewer number supported algorithms use colors default option use restricted color space and implementation color saturation dominant ordered dither this leads significantly superior quality dithered image claim judge restricted color space means that and components clipped and display color space points distributed this restricted space since distance color space points reduced factor two color resolution doubled expense not represent fully saturated colors saturation dominant ordered dither method color lying points display color space approximated primarily alternating two points constant hue constant saturation this yields subjectivly quality due lower sensitivity human viewing system saturation hue reasoning used pal standard improve ntsc improvement visible dark brown redish areas stefan eckart stefan lis technik muenchen
comp.graphics	point polygon for algorithm determine point bound polygon such code reference book containing information subject regards simon
comp.graphics	pov reboots memory upgrade last week running povray dos major problems easter increased memory meg meg and found that povray reboots system time dos had running povray dos window running win system and works fine even lot slower back povray directly dos ideas john john heaton nrs central administrator mcc network unit university oxford road manchester phone fax packet yyh yyh pwy gbr
comp.graphics	good shareware paint and animation software for sgi good shareware animation paint software for sgi machine exhausted everyplace net can find and don hava nice piece software alot chad knock knock chad cipiti cleveland freenet edu cipiti bobcat ent ohiou edu heisenberg chad voxel zool ohiou edu
comp.graphics	processing stereo images interested find involved processing pairs stereo photographs black and white photos and obtain surface contours prefer processing sgi interested hearing software hardware used for this type image processing email and post comp sys sgi graphics your responses dane hendrix email dane wizard navy mil dtmb headquarters carderock div hendrix oasys navy mil naval surface warfare center hendrix nas nasa gov code bethesda phone
comp.graphics	weitek robert kyanko rob rjck wrote abraxis iastate edu writes article abraxis class iastate edu weitek graphics chip low level stuff pretty nice this quadrilateral fill command that requires points you weitek address phone number information this chip joe green harris corporation jgreen csd harris computer systems division thing that scares person sense humor jonathan winters
comp.graphics	sun and bit ascii graphics had luck upper ascii characters sun station convert fortran program run sun write character buffers sun char char char etc characters screen not characters standard ascii tables ideas will appreciated
comp.graphics	for circle algorithm faster bresenhams wed apr gmt graeme labtam labtam graeme gill graeme that bresenhams run length slice algorithm for graeme incremental lines fundamental algorithms for computer graphics graeme springer verlag berlin heidelberg extrapolate this circles can figure determine length slices ideas graeme hmm don can you this you graeme graeme double step incremental generation lines and circles graeme and rokne computer graphics and image processing graeme vol mar graeme double step generation ellipses and rokne graeme ieee computer graphics applications another paper you want article fungdraw title run length slice line drawing algorithm division operations author khun yee fung and tina nicholl and dewdney journal computer graphics forum year volume number pages khun yee khun yee fung clipper csd uwo department computer science middlesex college university western ontario london ontario canada tel fax
comp.graphics	geometry package for package takes inputs set geometric objects defined unions convex polytopes manner inequalities and equalities and determines reasonable form things intersections unions etc etc can find such thing dan naiman department mathematical sciences johns hopkins university
comp.graphics	point polygon article apr bull scrowe hemel bull simon crowe writes for algorithm determine point bound polygon such code reference book containing information subject article efficient ray polygon intersection graphics gems isbn second step intersecting polygon you want sample code book spl steve lamont sciviguy spl szechuan ucsd edu san diego microscopy and imaging resource san diego jolla not bolsheviks bullshitviks yevgeny yevtechenko meeting
comp.graphics	distance two bezier curves pes hutcs hut pekka siltanen writes suppose two cubic bezier curves control points and equal and last control points upper bound for distance curves distance distance point curve and point curve parameter references appreciated anvance pekka siltanen
comp.graphics	point polygon scrowe hemel bull simon crowe writes for algorithm determine point bound polygon such code reference book containing information subject since this discussed liberty reprinting permission sue eric haines reprint interesting discussion this topic jonas snip snip give man fish and eat day give man fishing rod and laze fishing and never that mind reprint permission sue relevant information posted years ago this problem note early use postscript technology predating this year papers listed april siggraph program announcement posted days ago eric intersection line and polygon undecidable dave baraff tom duff deb charisma graphics cornell edu newsgroups comp graphics keywords jordan curve separation ursyhon metrization theorem organization program computer graphics article ncsmith ndsuvax timothy lyle smith writes find formula algorithm determine line intersects polygon prefer method that this time this for use forward raytracing program that this difficult problem start lines and polygons semi algebraic sets uncountable number points cuff ideas check line and polygon separated jordan curve separation theorem that polygon divides plane into exactly two open and compact regions line lies completely inside polygon line lies completely polygon possibly this will rarely happen line intersects polyon phrasing this question line intersects polygon this decision problem possibility decision model approach reduce question problem and solve answer answer original decision problem recent years geometric problems successfully modeled language called postscript postscript language adobe systems incorporated isbn line and polygon can write postscript program that draws line and polygon and outputs answer output mean program executes command called showpage prints page paper containing line and polygon quick examination paper answer reduced problem and original problem two small problems this approach infinite number ways encode and into reduced problem will forced invoke axiom choice equivalently zorn lemma use axiom choice not regarded light days importantly question arises whether not postscript program will output piece paper words will halt postscript expressive encode that turing machine halting problem for postscript undecidable quite that original problem will turn undecidable won even begin into difficulties such aliasing finite precision and running ink paper couple references principia mathematica newton cambridge university press cambridge england don isbn for this introduction automata theory languages and computation hopcroft and ulman programming language kernighan and ritchie tale two cities dickens alice tom duff summary overkill organization bell laboratories murray hill situation not bleak baraff suggests hung labs for long dobbin dullman reduction dullman dobbin comp obfusc lemma line polygon intersection can reduced hamiltonian circuit use grobner bases lpi coin acronym complete turing completeness will longer problem once cray delivered since will complete infinite loop milliseconds scatter gather deb svax cornell edu david baraff worse complete that you restrict case line satisfies lipschitz condition second derivative siggraph paper caltech that deals this email jonas isy liu dept electrical engineering voice university linkoping sweden fax
comp.graphics	point polygon article apr bull scrowe hemel bull simon crowe writes for algorithm determine point bound polygon such code reference book containing information subject regards simon basically two algorithms determining whether point inside polygon ray half line method this method you can draw ray number intersection point ray and polygon even number odd inside you deal special cases make you headache second method algorithm draw lines point and vertices polygon calculate and sum angles successive lines result inside polygon experience tells second method relible hope this helps yeh usc
comp.graphics	two pointing devices port bob davis sonny trantor harris atd wrote article tkgm unix portal wil shell portal ville walveranta writes connect two pointing devices serial port haven this interfere each even time used switch for computer shopper fairly cheap switching two serial devices single port poster use internal and external modem switch isn you aren your ports for define ports define your internal modem and your external modem you shouldn worry interrupt conflicts since you won modems time christopher chan nui investment reliability will increase channui austin ibm exceeds probable cost errors include disclaimer insists getting work
comp.graphics	fractals good article pdxgate idr rigel pdx edu ian romanick writes talked another routine that yield compress image loss that notice draw back that takes hell long time compress can find book that can give exact numbers ttyl that typical claim improved compression speed considerably you find book interested you give pointers reportedly early fractal compression times hours used that marvelous piece hardware called grad students work supposedly automated since waiting impressed allen sign cynical
comp.graphics	bgi drivers for svga dominic lai cylai ust wrote simon crowe scrowe hemel bull wrote require bgi drivers for super vga displays and super xvga displays obtain relevant drivers ftp sites regards dominic garbo uwasa mirrors file called svgabg programming subdirectory svga bgi drivers for variety cards readme card types supported supervga drivers ahead ati chips tech everex genoa paradise oak trident and tseng and chipsets and video drivers will work video cards vesa capability tweaked drivers will work register compatible vga card enjoy clark verbrugge clump mcgill honk honk blat wak wak wak wak wak ungow
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance article mentor purdue edu nova purdue edu allen writes article apr galki toppoint ulrich galki toppoint writes tiff specification tiff version number bytes chosen for deep philosophical significance last week read hitchhikers guide galaxy this picked number and not amused time read that part tiff spec infuriates and happy complexity spec arbitrary carefully chosen number additionally find choice bytes begin file meaningless not use letters tiff and don bothered support word orders and found that tiff readers don tight for that matter tiff not gripe problems important you volunteer define critique spec finally numerology backwards and tiff bit image format chris christopher tully cptully med unc edu univ north carolina chapel hill chapel hill paid for opinions that doesn mean that unc agrees
comp.graphics	interleaf cgm successfully converted interleaf graphics cgm even heard love hear mike mcconnell emm cray
comp.graphics	hollywood hits virtual reality missed you raymond dahlgren last month virtual reality market manager for silicon graphics perhaps can article mar relay nswc navy mil rchui nswc nswc navy mil raymond chui writes real reality agency started express interest virtual reality not hollywood movies terminater and lawnmover man abc news magazine and computer graphics world magazine sgi systems used create special effects for terminator and lawnmower man film quality computer graphics rendered software and written film frame time each frame computer animation for films hours render high end parallel processing computer systems that level graphics difficult not impossible acheive real time frames per second want leading companies agencies universities machines support sgi sun bim etc depends you and advanced your application true immersive visualization requires rendering complex visual databases anywhere newly rendered frames per second this similar requirement that traditional flight simulators for pilot training frame rate low user notices stepping frames move head rapidly scene motion graphics not smooth and contiguous graphics system powerful sustain high frame rates rendering complex data representations additionally frame rate constant system renders frames per second point frames per second perhaps due scene viewing direction simpler visible user can heavily distracted medium graphics computer focusing data maintain constant frame rate system run real time unix general not support real time operation silicon graphics modified unix kernel for multi processor systems support real time operation bypassing usual unix process priority management schemes uniprocessor systems running unix cannot fundamentally support real time operation not sun sparc not series systems not ibm not even sgi uniprocessor systems indigo crimson multiprocessor onyx and challenge systems support real time operation due symmetric multi processing smp shared memory architecture graphics perspective rendering complex virtual environments requires advanced rendering techniques texture mapping and real time multi sample anti aliasing general purpose graphics systems market today crimson realityengine and onyx realityengine systems fully support capabilities anti aliasing important crawling jagged edges aliased polygons unfortunate distraction immersed virtual environment kind graphics languages used opengl phigs pex gks etc you can use general purpose graphics libraries listed develop applications that starting pretty low level shelf software packages you faster targeted directly application developer popular order division inc redwood city dvs sens inc sausalito worldtoolkit naval postgraduate school monterey npsnet free gemini technology corp irvine gvs simation series paradigm simulation inc dallas visionworks audioworks silicon graphics inc mountain view iris performer not top head companies making interface devices for goggles boom binocular omni orientational monitor hamlets gloves arms etc list smattering fake space labs menlo park boom virtual technologies inc stanford cyberglove digital image design york cricket input kaiser electro optics carlsbad sim eye helmet displays virtual research sunnyvale flight helmet display virtual reality inc pleasantville head mtd displays software systems san jose modeling software etc etc etc company addresses and phone numbers can list name experts and phone numbers and email addresses read books market virtual reality ken pimental and ken texiera virtual mirage artificial reality myron kreuger etc check newsgroup sci virtual worlds feel free contact for info regards josh joshua mogal product manager advanced graphics division advanced graphics systems silicon graphics inc market manager north shoreline blvd virtual reality mountain view interactive entertainment tel fax mail mogal sgi
comp.graphics	point polygon article jonas gouraud jonas isy liu jonas yngvesson writes intersection line and polygon undecidable dave baraff tom duff deb charisma graphics cornell edu recent years geometric problems successfully modeled language called postscript postscript language adobe systems incorporated isbn line and polygon can write postscript program that draws line and polygon and outputs answer output mean program executes command called showpage prints page paper containing line and polygon quick examination paper answer reduced problem and original problem curiously modern postscript point polygon problem can solved even easily wit title point polygon creator allen purdue edu for amusement comp graphics regulars languagelevel documentneededresource humor sense thereof endcomments this program will test whether point inside polygon even odd rule that can changed replacing ineofill infill level operators you level you luck result will printed output stream caution accurate device pixels put huge scale you aren point test put and coordinates vertices polygon counter clockwise order put array pairs coordinates dup aload pop moveto dup length dup roll sub getinterval aload pop lineto forall closepath ineofill ifelse
comp.graphics	virtual reality for cheap thought that people interested software groups announcing release multiverse multiverse multi user immersive windows based virtual reality system primarily focused entertainment research features client server based model berkeley sockets limit number users apart performance generic clients customizable servers hierachical objects allowing attachment cameras and light sources multiple light sources ambient point and spot objects can extension code handle unique functionality easily attached functionality client client built fast render loop basically things told server and renders image user viewpoint server information user actions can communicated clients and users client designed generic words you don develop client you want enter world this means that resources can spent enhancing client software adapting adaptations will explained moment occur servers this release client software supports functionality hierarchical objects associated addressing multiple light sources and types ambient point and spot user interface panels colour polygonal rendering phong shading optional wireframe for faster frame rates mouse and keyboard input people disappointed that this software doesn support powerglove input device this not can don this will enhancements server this customization can place basic support provided this release for potential world server developers transparent client management client message handling this not sound takes headache accepting and terminating clients and receiving messages application writer can work assumption that things happening locally things interesting object extension functionality this provided you animate your objects server selectable extension installation this means that you can decide objects extended functionality your world basically you call extension initialisers you want event handler registration you develop extensions for object you basically write callback functions for events that you want object respond current events supported init move change collide terminate collision detection registration you want your object respond collision events provide basic information collision detection management software your callback will activated collision occurs this software separate worldserver applications application developer build library extended objects choose you make world server application provide initworld function this you choose object extensions will supported initialization you want provide positionobject function this you determine place client provide installworldobjects function this you load world wld file for client provide getworldtype function this you client persona provide animateworld function this you can wild minimum you objects move calling move function and server sleep for bit avoid outrunning clients that and prove line counts for world servers provided generic lines dactyl lines complicated collision detection due stairs will improved future versions dogfight lines location this software located site ftp washington edu directory pub virtual worlds file multiverse tar futures client texture mapping realistic rendering buffering similar gouraud shading hmd support etc etc server physical modelling gravity friction etc enhanced object management interaction etc etc improved comms hope this people good understanding multiverse software comes practically documentation and not whether that will rectified hope people enjoy this software and that explorations virtual universe found fascinating developing and love add support for powerglove and hmd finally major disclaimer this totally amateur code that mean support for this code kindness heart you pure desperation provide cannot held responsible for good bad that happen use this code use your risk disclaimer you love you and positive contributions criticisms encouraged contact hates dev null and this for living you write robert robert acsc
comp.graphics	virtual reality for cheap update location directory public virtual worlds robert robert acsc
comp.graphics	pcx student turbo and graphics programming and problems finding algorithms and code teach stuff book code that will teach read and write pcx dbf and gif files access extra ram paradise video board can paging higher vga modes line good book answer question send reply palm snycanva bitnet peace blessed stephen palm
comp.graphics	good assembly vga programming book can give title good vga graphics programming book respond email yuan che yuan wang uxa cso uiuc edu cywang cso uiuc edu
comp.graphics	fractals good regards fractal commpression fractal compressed movies fairly impressive gray scale movie casablanca and had minutes fps video grainy not bad second minutes had bit color fps and measured fractal movies practical thing explore unlike formats you end losing resolution don kind software hardware used for creating movies guy that showed minutes per frame generate playback frames per second and you put minutes floppy disk davidr rincon ema rockwell opinions shared case will change mind
comp.graphics	vga graphics mode vesa tsr supports this can you report crt and register state this mode serge ivanov serge argus msk
comp.graphics	reaction diffusion techniques this past week playing reaction diffusion not confused rds techniques siggraph wondering material explain control mechanism matter picking random magic numbers and sitting back and waiting papers turk and witkin kass organized and extremely helpful guess basic description technique wrt control mechanisms tests that had tendency turn into blurry mud become unstable info online source code great not terran boylan artist programmer loved engineering animation inc ames and lost lost dorky dog
comp.graphics	bit graphics cards for eisa vesa local bus graphic cards that support resolution matrox expensive cards that support that resoultion striaght isa servers for unix that support bits
comp.graphics	fractal generation clouds haabn nye nscee edu frederick haab writes implement algorithm fractally generate clouds sort benchmark for algorithms working matter interest promo computer graphics sequence that local stations used play quite lot couple years ago showed flyover australia west coast east clouds quite recognisable fuzzy flat white mandlebrot sets david silver
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library for mac netters building cad package and graphics library that can handle rudimentry tasks such hidden line removal shading animation etc can you offer recommendations contact info name address email you can find post your responses case bob carpenter
comp.graphics	hot software article qflpk usenet ins cwru edu mbc cwru edu michael comet wrote previous article trb msstate edu tony boutwell product for ibm ers called imagine and started shipping yesterday can personally attest that will blow doors studio made impulse and don competing studio pretty powerful allright key issue speed fast imagine and easy use studio can render fast you don want things ior etc can fine shadows animated reflection maps animated bump maps animated maps and ipas routines not that can explosions top quality morphing fire rain lens flares etc not knocking imagine want compares
comp.graphics	raytracers recently become hooked pov thing that want that pov won penumbral shadows dispersion etc wondering shareware freeware raytracers and can heard vivid and polyray and rayshade and wade hundred pages manual for each work capabilities can comparison tracing speed each program mucho mark mark mackey life terminal disease and oxygen mmackey aqueous csiro addictive you hooked
comp.graphics	shareware recently latest computer shopper and article nice shareware graphics programs looked pretty good and listed article had graphics workshop found archie draft choice version and rest couldn find that can programs anonymous ftp adkins graphics zip zip draft choice latest vga version draftc zip envision publisher envis zip envis zip neopaint neopnt zip advance petro david petro kwyjibo big dumb balding dept physics north american ape university windsor petro server uwindsor
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library for mac robert carpenter writes netters building cad package and graphics library that can handle rudimentry tasks such hidden line removal shading animation etc can you offer recommendations contact info name address email you can find post your responses case bob carpenter graphics library libraries cost can you tools used renderman and can you reasonable cost that don answers questions matt madsen mmadsen ics uci edu
comp.graphics	thinning algorithm netters for source code that can reads ascii file bitmap file and produced thinned image for example preprocess character image want apply thinning algorithm kevin
comp.graphics	for autocad dxf file parser function libraries public domain that assist parsing autocad dxf file mail jogle geigel seas gwu edu
comp.graphics	delaunay triangulation delaunay triangulation reference for creating objects advantage advance yeh usc
comp.graphics	cylinder and ray article fginnbv darkstar ucsc edu koehler secs ucsc edu writes thrilled kind person cylinder defined line segment two points and radius and easiest and not expensive find ray defined another line two points cuts this cylinder and test for touching simple closest approach two lines ray penetrate cylinder nope this won work for cylinder you can line arbitrarily close cylinder backbone and not intersect test works for pillbox cylinder two hemispheres attached ends ryan koehler secs ucsc edu arun
comp.graphics	crimson kubota announcement article edu kiki problem inews gateway file keith baccki writes lee lee obiwan rsg hac wrote you dec alpha upgrade path replace upgrade path vax alpha replace system not totally fair you haven mentioned decstation series sgi made cisc mainframes wouldn provide upgrade path onyx agree you upgrade path fair original posting complained sgi coming newer and architectures and not upgrade path older and that dec statement attempted point that computer companies constantly attempting improve product market position share eventually come point architecture and upgrade path replace system and system complaining computer lifetimes relatively statement felt dec history providing upgrades not superior industry average and that opinion sgi history dec and dec mips based decstation line abandon for alpha based line provide upgrade path and tfp and
comp.graphics	book kells correction aparantly mistyped address for ftp site holds images correct address jupiter csd unb jupiter csd unb edu directory pub library info jon williams university northern iowa
comp.graphics	job job opportunity seri systems engineering research institute kist korea institute science and technology for resumes for position and end june you interested send resumes cad cae lab floor systems engineering research institute korea institute science and technology yousung eoeun dong daejon korea company systems engineering research institute title senior research scientist job description depth knowledge working knowledge computer aided design working knowledge computer graphics working knowledge virtual reality skills not required desirable knowledge data modeling virtual reality experience understanding client server architecture requirement job location daejon korea contact info chul lim cad cae lab floor systems engineering research institute korea institute science and technology yousung eoeun dong daejon korea phone fax mail jxl
comp.graphics	chosing optimal colors for colormap for algorithm that generate good cross section rgb colours limited colour map size problem writing application for that colors want use colormap palette for application even spread colours visible spectrum use rgb cube problem that lot colours almost identical human eye can optimize choice colors
comp.graphics	siggraph srnelson speedsail eng sun scott nelson writes dave mikelson almac dave mikelson writes open day for public time that not attend conferences browse exhibits exhibits etc for fully registered attendees free long you siggraph july for similar free july safe assume that kind deal will this year advance program and card back for exhibits program exhibits admission number conference venues including special general session scenes computer graphics film admission not free nominal exhibits open august copy advance program you can call advance program good indication excitement conference register early and for free doesn work this year steve cunningham
comp.graphics	studio works guys people this group fans fractal and render favourite fractint pov dstudio listen ideas starting use dstudio quite simulating full animation grand prix unfortanatly lap interested kind prj and cars parts motors wheel dxf good object give complete hard animation exchanges object material project will apreciate ftp site can find for pov files interested cpu time comparision rendering images pov dstusio email rosa ghost dsi unimi
comp.graphics	rumours dave optimla aimla dave ziedman writes concept software sells and will determine success apparantly you dont news shown ces developers and private showings software licensees developing software for that lot concept
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library for article bcstec boeing rgc bcstec boeing robert carpenter writes netters building cad package and graphics library that can handle rudimentry tasks such hidden line removal shading animation etc can you offer recommendations contact info name address email you can find post your responses case bob carpenter sites excellent objects sorts file formats host plaza aarnet edu location graphics graphics mirrors directory drwxr apr avalon chinalake navy mil host compute ncsu edu location mirrors wustl graphics graphics mirrors directory drwxr mar avalon chinalake navy mil host wuarchive wustl edu location graphics graphics mirrors directory drwxr jan avalon chinalake navy mil ajay
comp.graphics	dxf format questions archie told sites holding documentation dxf host nic funet last updated apr location pub csc graphics format file rwxrwxr dec dxf doc host rainbow cse nau edu last updated jun location graphics formats file mar dxf doc host ftp waseda last updated apr location pub data graphic file nov dxf doc org wunsch ham dtl joerg wunsch uriah sax can wrong joerg sax wutcd hadrian hrz chemnitz will joerg wunsch tcd dresden
comp.graphics	mpeg for windows mono needed sunsite unc edu pub multimedia utilities unix find mpeg play tar find for mono works mpeg play dither threshold you can use mpeg play dither mono face this not viewing situation made patch for mpeg play that two mono modes mono and halftone jan pandonia canberra edu jan newmarch and patch can found csc canberra edu pub motif mpeg mono patch leon dent lcd umcc umich edu
comp.graphics	compiled version vogl library for compiled vogl graphics library for ibm call fortran don compile sources for martti toivakka mtoivakk abo
comp.graphics	virtual reality for cheap multiverse work built svr mips svr and sun sparcstation bugs dogfight and dactyl simply nothing fixing bug variable defined twice two modules needed setting static client core dumped steve extn sts mfltd uunet mfocus sts micro focus pariah name west street living blaze obscurity rum ruff splat newbury courage survive day berkshire england bort etry nfluence large hammer
comp.graphics	micro world data bank for database called micro world data bank database digital map information containing latitude longitude points public domain place can preferably ftp gopher mailserver etc snail mail you and willing send file drop line program called versamap charles culberson another detailed database that can used this program preferably interested replies mail directly don read this group regularly interest post summary derk ederveen fidonet tel ederveen research ptt ederveen hlsdnl bitnet fax admd net prmd ptt research ptt research ederveen dnm warrior language that speak lou reed
comp.graphics	for bala vatti email address for email address author generic solution polygon clipping communication acm july vol information author follows bala vatti lcec river road hudson email vatti waynar lcec lockheed want related and detailed papers topic author failed send email address information appreciated you regards young kunii lab dept information science faculty science university tokyo bunkyo hongo tokyo japan email young tokyo
comp.graphics	round elliptical dot screens photoshop elliptical dot for halftone screen round dot printer prefer elliptical dot not set sending mac iici linotronic imagesetter and photoshop make separations greatly appreshed michael unscene michael maier computer artist anl glued veiw email michael maier qmgate anl gov milk amnesia phone michael maier
comp.graphics	sgi sales practices crimson kubota announcement article hacgate scg hac lee luke rsg hac lee writes original posting complained sgi coming newer and architectures and not upgrade path older and that dec that not complaining intend suggest that dec sgi you lynx day prepared large sedative you comment dec that open vendors that supported opengl deal sgi annoyed fact that led that upgrade multiprocessor version crimson assistance fork lift truck annoyed sold personal irises previous site understanding that architecture for flushed understand that sgi responsible investors and showing positive quarterly bottom line odd that found pressured two occasions business books end quarter tired getting boned process lab buys sgis onesies and twosies aren entitled peek covers big kids nasa for instance this lab and suspect that lot labs and organizations doesn load money spend computers year can buying systems regular basis boxes that buy will last pretty entire grant period years and case that means that buy piece equipment that can money not product that built paraphrase previous poster words fill niche compete vendor this box for years and time sgi and spent money your money since supported almost federal tax dollars you pardon and hiss and fume corner and dark libelous thoughts spl steve lamont sciviguy spl szechuan ucsd edu san diego microscopy and imaging resource san diego jolla car car bumper strip
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library for mac robert carpenter writes netters building cad package and graphics library that can handle rudimentry tasks such hidden line removal shading animation etc can you offer recommendations contact info name address email you can find post your responses case bob carpenter extracted sumex aim stanford edu mirrors source for applications that bearing your project poke source directory never used this package price hope this helps cheinan abstracts files thu apr pst directory info mac source binhex grafsys hqx date fri mar christian steffen ove franz cfranz iiic ethz questions mac archive umich edu subject grafsys incoming directory grafsys short description follows programmers grafsys vers version bugfix for users this version runs promise docs chapter for programmers use grafsys you problems feel free contact change that removed fastperftrig calls fpu version make run faster you don this read programmers grafsys didn you this great game mind you needed drawing dimensional scenes didn you want write this program that visualized structure dimensional molecules and didn task writing your conversions routines you answer questions this package read grafsys pascal library that you simple routines for building saving loading resources and manipulating independent rotating arbitrary achses translating and scaling dimensional objects objects not simple single line drawings grafsys supports full clipping animation and primitive hidden line hidden surface drawing simple commands your program grafsys supports full eye control perspective and parallel projections you can understand word don worry this showing for docs that come will explain means grafsys powerful interface supply your drawing routines data you can use grafsys transformations and your routines actual drawing note that grafsys drawing routines you don worry that you don want grafsys comes two versions for and processors version fixed point arithmetic and runs mac versions source compatibel grafsys comes extensive manual that teaches you fundamentals graphics and use package demand big will convert grafsys object class library feelt that implemented makes easier use for lot people select oop guild grafsys free for commercial usage read documentation enclosed enjoy christian franz
comp.graphics	fonts pov article wampyr uow edu wampyr uow edu coronado emmanuel abad ray traced scenes mtv rayshade stroked fonts appearing objects image fonts chars had color depth and even textures associated wondering pov noel serveral programs can convert font files borland fonts objects consisting spheres cones etc used program forgot name place can for converted borland fonts raytracers vivid pov and polyray flexibel faster use expressions etc program lot nice features interested give mail peter vanderveen visser wau department genetics agricultural university wageningen netherlands
comp.graphics	vesa speedstar vmode command you type vmode vesa dos prompt vmode included speedstar used vesa mode for autodesk animator pro geoffrey hansen mindlink inumerable confusions and feeling despair invariably emerge periods great technological and cultural transition marshall mcluhan
comp.graphics	hot software don imagine real amiga user you real for amiga imagine amiga for long time friend home and action bit movie riccione italy italian computer graphics contest professionals studio softimage for silicon graphics and imagine amiga impressed power this programs lost posting full description features this great program for informations give comp sys amiga graphics representative activa international told that will weeks for amiga and that windows silicon indigo and unix version development ciao sergio sergio ruocco ruocco ghost dsi unimi vittorio settimo milanese milano phone
comp.graphics	pcx article apr freenet carleton freenet carleton jason wiggle writes freenet carleton jason wiggle subject pcx date wed apr gmt student turbo and graphics programming and problems finding algorithms and code teach stuff book code that will teach read and write pcx dbf and gif files access extra ram paradise video board can paging higher vga modes line good book answer question send reply palm snycanva bitnet peace blessed stephen palm book that can somewhat recommend pratical image processing craig lindley published wiley addresses reading writing pcx tiff files image acquisition manipulation and storage and source code book source primarily written turbo and naturally conversion possibilities converted quick naturally code problems book usuall typos syntax etc problems can good learning experience for studying companion disk source for order and book not bad acquired book waldensoftware
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library hardware plan run workstation cost level run time licensing bob robert schmitt applied derivatives technology lehman brothers rschmitt shearson
comp.graphics	mitsubishi image printer group recently bought mitsubishi video printer and use bought this thing parallel data input addition usual video signal inputs and claimed print gray level images manual that describes format parallel data print and bit pixel images initial problems parallel interface this thing running parallel port hewlett packard workstation and can print and bit pixel images fine called mitsubishi people and asked level claim and that used video signal inputs this not mentioned sales literature can bit pixel level images parallel mode didn information program and call japan etc frankly find hard that this thing can bit pixel images video source can store bits pixel memory not memory that expensive information getting bit pixel even bit pixel images this thing greatly your sending allan weber signal image processing institute university southern california weber sipi usc edu
comp.graphics	graph display edit for program that capable displaying graph nodes and links and possibility edit interactively graph add node change link etc simple program put boxes nodes pane and manipulate mouse move add delete boxes such program for loris renggli phone swiss federal institute technology fax math dept lausanne switzerland mail renggli masg epfl
comp.graphics	rumours article apr rchland ibm ricardo hernandez muchado ricardo rchland vnet ibm writes and cpu doesn understand supposedly variation running mhz this speed you sprites wow interested hands fact that motorola not released supposedly lineup ricardo animation playback lawrence referring earlier post plain quicktime compact video codec digitized video apple early commercials precise running centris fps nicely bit color depth expect that algorithm risc processor approach full screen full motion animation you implied processor will taxed highly dynamic material sean mcmains check gopher phone university north texas bands info server fax box seanmac acs unt edu mail denton mcmains unt edu
comp.graphics	xga info info xga chipset funcs truecolor resolutions boards xga rainer rainer leberle rleberle sparc cstp umkc edu university kansas city mail clinton whitehouse gov subject
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance cptully med unc edu christopher tully pathology writes tight for that matter tiff not gripe problems important you volunteer define critique spec hear hear finally numerology backwards and tiff bit image format thought that reason that written that intel chips you proper pete stomp endian wars break eggs sides peter mueller thebishop person commits violation and sins highlndr cso uiuc edu unintentionally regard pmueller mrcnext cso uiuc edu lord holy things bring lord penalty ram flock
comp.graphics	sgi sales practices crimson kubota announcement comment dec that open vendors that supported opengl deal sgi opengl graphics programming library and such great portable interface for development interactive graphics applications not indicator performance that will vary strongly machine machine and vendor vendor sgi committed high performance interactive graphics systems and software tools opengl means that you can port easily sgi platforms guarantee that your performance comparable annoyed fact that led that upgrade multiprocessor version crimson assistance fork lift truck your sales representative mislead you you valid grievance you carry your local sgi sales management team feel free contact local branch manager understand that repeat sales come satisfied customers give shot annoyed sold personal irises previous site understanding that architecture for flushed previous posts stated personal iris introduced and grew include and clock rates sped time rule thumb sgi platforms live for years this true motorola based series professional series early power series parallel systems individual cpu subsystems running clock rate live for years graphics architectures high end vgx realityengine released months years facts life machines become almost archaic years and come platform indigo onyx challenge higher bus bandwidths faster cpus faster graphics and and larger disk capacities don become uncompetitive user perspective you buy machine that meets your current and makes economic sense today you can wait buy you guaranteed upgrade path for machine sales rep for writing feasible that upgrade paths specific programs associated such performance protection program for older based power series multiprocessing systems allowed purchasers systems obtain guaranteed upgrade price for moving onyx challenge based bit multiprocessor systems understand that sgi responsible investors and showing positive quarterly bottom line odd that found pressured two occasions business books end quarter tired getting boned process that happening becausing misunderstandings mis communication not sgi directly attempting annoy customer base lab buys sgis onesies and twosies aren entitled peek covers big kids nasa for instance this lab and suspect that lot labs and organizations doesn load money spend computers year can buying systems regular basis sgi customers onesy twosey types rarely give great deal notice introduce system previous post stated pre announced and schedule slipped mess potential customers schedules counting availability systems date and bad investors and financial analysts watch carefully meeting commitments boxes that buy will last pretty entire grant period years and case that means that buy piece equipment that can money not product that built paraphrase previous poster words fill niche compete vendor this box for years and time sgi and spent money your money since supported almost federal tax dollars years long time computer years processor technologies arriving years making year computer and generations times competitive nature market demanding that rate development your timing years purchases you accept limited viability architecture you buy into vendor realities computer biz that live keeping customers happy important don give josh joshua mogal product manager advanced graphics division advanced graphics systems silicon graphics inc market manager north shoreline blvd virtual reality mountain view interactive entertainment tel fax mail mogal sgi
comp.graphics	rendering software for multi processor computer searching for rendering software developed specifically advantage multi processor computer systems pointers such software greatly appreciated billy carter software engineering section southwest research institute wcarter swri edu
comp.graphics	wanted map world type gifs can direct map type gifs interesting cartography and find gifs tia lee van dyke lvandyke balboa eng uci edu infotec infotec lee sunkist west sun
comp.graphics	pov trouble bump mapping gif sphere bump map gif sphere for and can work image mapping works not bump mapping simple file working kind soul whats wrong this include colors inc include shapes inc include textures inc camera location direction object light source color white object sphere texture bump map gif surf gif note surf gif plasma fractal fractint that landscape palette map advance daniel daniel kennett dkennett sfu minds finite and even circumstances finitude surrounded possibilities that infinite and purpose human life grasp can that infinitude alfred north whitehead
comp.graphics	point intersection lines can suggest robust algorithms code for computing point intersection lines plane data outliers and simple squares technique not provide satifactory results respond mail and will post summary newsgroups sufficient interest raj talluri member technical staff image understanding branch texas instruments central research labs dallas texas talluri csc
comp.graphics	program included edge detection algorithms this program doesn detect edges compass operators and laplacian operator output raw grey scale images edges output doesn edges novicee terms correct errors improvements even accept your corrected code convolve input image digital gaussian remove noise will improvement laplacian types edge detection include stdio include math define imagewidth define imageheight unsigned char input image imageheight imagewidth unsigned char angles wanted imageheight imagewidth unsigned char magnitude image imageheight imagewidth int laplace int compass int compass int compass int compass int compass int compass int compass int compass void compass row col int row col int int rows cols int compass compass compass compass int compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass for rows rows rows for cols cols cols row rows col cols compass int input image row rows col cols compass rows cols compass int input image row rows col cols compass rows cols compass int input image row rows col cols compass rows cols compass int input image row rows col cols compass rows cols compass int input image row rows col cols compass rows cols compass int input image row rows col cols compass rows cols compass int input image row rows col cols compass rows cols compass int input image row rows col cols compass rows cols compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass compass magnitude image row col char void laplace row col int row col int rows cols magnitude image row col for rows rows rows for cols cols cols row rows col cols magnitude image row col char int magnitude image row col int input image row rows col cols laplace rows cols main file original image file laplace mag laplace mag laplace mag file compass mag int row col algo count original image fopen input image laplace mag fopen laplace magnitude compass mag fopen compass magnitude fread unsigned char input image sizeof unsigned char imageheight imagewidth original image for algo count algo count algo count for row row imageheight row for col col imagewidth col algo count laplace row col compass row col algo count fwrite magnitude image sizeof char imageheight imagewidth laplace mag fwrite magnitude image sizeof char imageheight imagewidth compass mag for lot music ftp sounds sdsu edu cat file dev audio library catalog telnet bison acsu buffalo edu doubt xarchie xgopher xwais
comp.graphics	virtual reality for cheap steve author multiverse feel had respond your mailnote questioning whether had managed compile this software quick answer long answer had problems platforms not unix you bugs including you you bit explicit platforms succesfully compiled and run dec ultrix sun solaris main problem that don access platforms portability problems hear people letting and giving clue fix software not you bother releasing that case perhaps you didn read docs that supplied dogfight world made clients you your you not dactyl world quite lot scenary you don this problem final word you not interested don bother you interested remember that not asking for money not patience and constructive criticism that will results robert robert acsc
comp.graphics	hot software don speed determined since never run intel chips amiga motorola chips fastest true ray tracers don impulse port and not speed into consideration terms features and learning curve that you stated for true for imagine and lots admit that years use amiga learning curve steep this due manual realy bad lot market support for this product including regular tips articles magazines such avid and great book steve worley called understanding imagine this book not recommened important consideration price for not including tool packages for imagine complete
comp.graphics	cylinder and ray sketch rotate cylinder axis axis intersect projection line projected cylinder similar easier sphere intersection result intersection intersection two intersections parameterized line and and compute intersections line top and bottom planes cylinder this and interval intersection bit line intersect details left exercise for reader spencer thomas info tech and networking cfob genome informatician univ michigan ann arbor spencer thomas med umich edu fax
comp.graphics	sphere points boy this will embarassing trivial faq points coplanar find sphere that center and radius exactly fitting points for circle points not immediately straightforward checked geometry books graphics gems and farin loss mercy and provide solution bolson university washington cardiovascular research bolson washington edu preferred bolson max bitnet bolson milton washington edu you
comp.graphics	announce ivan sutherland speak harvard harvard computer society pleased announce lecture spring ivan sutherland father computer graphics and innovator microprocessing will speaking harvard university tuesday april aiken computations building room title talk logical effort and conflict control information cookies and tea will served aiken lobby admissions free and aiken located north science center law school for information send mail eekim husc harvard edu lecture will videotaped and tape will made eugene kim give place stand and will internet eekim husc harvard edu move earth archimedes
comp.graphics	windows imagine ordered version imagine recieved ready order reading posts people awaiting delivery making paranoid held this piece software hands jim nobles
comp.graphics	vga mode routines made vga mode graphics library ftp originally wrote routines kind exercise for perhaps will find useable missing higher level functionality intended intro mode programming starting point library assumes processor trivial modify for people make mods and post version routines written assembly tasm and callable fairly simple found fast for purposes routines included enter and exit mode define virtual screen put and pixels put pixmap rectangular image transparent spots put sprite image areas copy areas virtual screen into video memory etc included simple routine draw line routine load color gif image into buffer wrote quick dirty demo program that bounces bunch sprites windows package spang camosun pub dos vgl zip zipped pkzip completely public domain concerned you nice credit due and mail telling you you don don bother mark morley camosun
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library for mac searched mich archives fairly for graphics packages thought mirror sumex aim stanford edu wrong into grafsys sound interesting cheinan bobc
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library not mentioning platform original post mac programmer and decided post comp graphics software run primarily mac object pascal mpw port windows package that runs mac and windows version ideal for package that low upfront costs and reasonable licensing costs bobc
comp.graphics	sphere points article qkgbuinns shelley washington edu bolson carson washington edu edward bolson writes boy this will embarassing trivial faq points coplanar find sphere that center and radius exactly fitting points for circle points not immediately straightforward checked geometry books graphics gems and farin loss mercy and provide solution wouldn this require hyper sphere space points specifies sphere can that you can prove that point exists space that equi distant points and this not necessarily happen correct wrong quite possibly steve steven collins email steve crl hitachi visiting computer graphics researcher phone hitachi central research lab tokyo fax
comp.graphics	sphere points bolson carson washington edu edward bolson writes boy this will embarassing trivial faq points coplanar find sphere that center and radius exactly fitting points for circle points not immediately straightforward checked geometry books graphics gems and farin loss mercy and provide solution not bad question don refs that list this algorithm thinking bit shouldn hard points and find plane define circle that lie you you this algorithm find center this circle line passing this center perpendicular plane points passes center sphere repeat unused point and two original points this you two lines that pass sphere origin interection center sphere radius easy compute distance center original points leave math you this workable algorithm alternate method pairs points plane formed perpendicular bisector each line segment pair contains center sphere pairs will form planes intersecting point this easier implement steve spworley netcom
comp.graphics	rayshade dxf rib etc strata mac user use rayshade models built macrayshade rayshade stratavision since stratavision can import model files thought this cinch haven find simple translator that will work mac ideas stratavision import dxf minicad super swivel professional box and rib igs externals translator externals for stratavision esp rayshade mail btw send mail rayshade usrs mailing list tomorrow misplaced address since users rayshade not operate macs not getting hopes advance patrick hurh fnal fnal gov
comp.graphics	siggraph notes for copy siggraph publication gomez comments event driven annimation siggraph notes location can obtain copy notes dkusswur falcon depaul edu
comp.graphics	cobra video card net land information cobra card sticker end card reads model cobra bios cobra havn find you information hold company produces card drivers for can cga card that taking bit isa slots enable test patterns displays usualy cga colors can count internet jele eis calstate edu bbs mirage gilligan tsoft net bbs mirage tsoft bay org mirage thetech apple tsoft bbs mirage computer and video imaging major
comp.graphics	externel processes for studio source code externel processes that comes studio and mabe som kind doc for writing processes your lars author lars jorgensen syntax bbs bad syntax bbs denmark golded
comp.graphics	text recognition software availability article ihqm mentor purdue edu nova purdue edu allen writes time free ocr software this question periodically and haven found this last time don find write post email you leads suggestions sit back and wait for not this free shareware you can wsmrsimtel army mil directory msdos deskpub file ocr zip file simibm lst ocr zip optical character recognition for scanners hope this helps roman valo valo cvt stuba slovak technical university bratislava slovakia
comp.graphics	sphere points article qkgbuinns shelley washington edu bolson carson washington edu edward bolson writes boy this will embarassing trivial faq center and radius exactly fitting points for circle points not immediately straightforward checked geometry books graphics gems and farin loss mercy and provide solution top head find center sphere determined dist radius distance points dist dist dist dist can square thing rid square roots distsq distsq distsq distsq plug variables into distance formula simplify and and terms cancel leaving you linearly independent equations and unknowns solve your favorite method john john eickemeyer lord god subtle information technology institute malicious not national computer board singapore email johne iti gov albert einstein
comp.graphics	rumours article apr mercury unt edu sean mcmains mcmains unt edu writes wow interested hands fact that motorola not released supposedly lineup variation that years ago european partners motorola integrated controllers and half mmu and burkhard neidecker lutz distributed multimedia group cec karlsruhe eerp portfolio manager software motion pictures berkom project multimedia base technology digital equipment corporation neidecker nestvx enet dec
comp.graphics	avi file format email avi file format that people exactly you mark gregory lecturer gregory rmit edu fax royal melbourne institute technology department communication and electronic engineering box melbourne victoria australia mark gregory lecturer gregory rmit edu fax royal melbourne institute technology department communication and electronic engineering box melbourne victoria australia
comp.graphics	vga graphics mode dutc student umn edu writes article bmp news cis umn edu vesa bios support this mode and vga support this colors since requires bytes vesa tsr supports this vesa mode card can support due restrictions paradise not responsible for opinion robert kyanko rob rjck ahh possibly you punched wrong numbers your calculator color modes byte per pixel time exact takes don bios mode wouldn bet that vga cards can that vga card bet can and that definition svga not high svga punch wrong numbers working late nites intended stating bytes not bios vesa tsr not responsible for opinion robert kyanko rob rjck
comp.graphics	cview answers kind soul mailed this reply for bugs cview since isn position post this asked post for leave name comes cview quite number bugs you mention perhaps annoying not dangerous can determine temp files that cview creates cview user control places temp files places current directory problem you mention occurs can runs disk space for temp files cview doesn check properly for this situation cview decodes jpeg write temp file pixel data bit colour information for bit displays dithering writing another file bit colour information writing this second file writes data your colour card last chunk bit data recopies data bit file your screen this last recopy operation for fit screen feature even this feature not enabled result this process runs disk space writing bit file you data room for and last bit data simply repeated and cview never realizes disk filled and disk writes reads aren performed room for bit data runs room for bit data you almost picture dithering and writes screen card finishes dithering and recopies data bit file screen for reason this gets repetition last chunk data for room disk this guess fairly accurate general idea track made errors details file etc this clear sufficient disk space temp files for large jpeg and bigger can large meg meg largest needed excess meg free disk space cview bug you display file floppy and you change floppies cview temp file open floppy cview circumstances will write directory and fat table can remember for removed floppy newly inserted floppy corruptimg floppy possibly unrevcoverable careful incredibly poor programming for program this hand choosing files open files menu cview insists disk reads time moves lighter square incredibly annoying once gets directory info and effort sort directory listing originator this article rene walter renew stack urc tue will drown tears sorrow hope for tomorrow will this world can live together don wanna live strife wanna live life deserve future good girls future
comp.graphics	alt raytrace potential group create group alt raytrace hooked pov geez don dave letterman
comp.graphics	shadow optical raytracing package for software called shadow simple raytracer used visualization synchrotron beam lines version program don documentation can docs newer version program even another program that sort thing love hear you shadow written cerrina ideas gary serc daresbury lab
comp.graphics	character recognition program free for taking tiff gif bitmapped file and turning parts into ascii characters dos platform independent programs
comp.graphics	good concave convex polygon algorithm good concave convex polygon conversion routine couple luck mail responses and will post summary replies you richard stoakley rws uvacs virginia edu
comp.graphics	automatic layout state diagrams hoping will computer science project group computer science honours and project graphical simulator for finite state automata basically program draw diagram fsa textual grammar showing circles for states and labeled arc problem working layout states and draw arc that arc cross each suggestions algorithms bug free ready compile code that appreciated advance gregory
comp.graphics	compensate for photographic viewpoint and distortion this problem and not solving correct wondering can shed light this point place ray imaging camera and metallic tube cylindrical hole passing angle tube axis image ray source screen metallic tube source screen centre distance radius tube radius hole calculations based image hole screen calculations mathematically highly complex and assume that object hole projects image resembling ellipse tube not parallel screen centre screen that object conveniently firstly transform major and minor axis ellipse cannot angle tube and screen assume that parallel transformation this transformation secondly distortion image due screen planar source screen distance increases move centre screen can compensate ellipse axis for this image distortion can give pointers transform image appears centre screen and deal distortion due shape screen posted emailed advance simon simon marshall dept computer science university hull hull football isn life and death important that bill email marshall hull phone fax shankley
comp.graphics	sphere points article hcrlgw crl hitachi steve hcrlgw steven collins writes article qkgbuinns shelley washington edu bolson carson washington edu edward bolson writes boy this will embarassing trivial faq points coplanar find sphere that center and radius exactly fitting points for circle points not immediately straightforward checked geometry books graphics gems and farin loss mercy and provide solution wouldn this require hyper sphere space points specifies sphere can that you can prove that point exists space that equi distant points and this not necessarily happen correct wrong quite possibly steve call points and collinear not lie surface sphere and not coplaner cannot lie sphere define infinity and define circle perpendicular bisectors and meet point centre this circle this circle lie surface desired sphere normal plane abc passing points this normal equidistant and and circle fact diameter desired sphere plane containing this normal and lies normal plane containing normal will this plane angles abc point two circumference abc circle lies this plane point normal such that intersection perpendicular bisector and normal such point and exists since not plane abc and not angles normal algorithm sphere defined check that and not coincident failure find line and check that not lie failure find plane abc and check that not lie failure find centre find perpendicular bisectors and find point intersection find normal plane abc passing line find plane containing and find point abc circle this plane lies find perpendicular bisector line find point intersection and centre desired sphere pictures plane abc angles abc plane containing and line numerically will close relative radius abc circle and subject error choose that and larger for choice bob douglas computing services university oxford internet bob oxford address banbury road oxford telephone
comp.graphics	polygon orientation dxf writing program convert dxf files database format used graphics program written program stores points polygon ccw order used concepts and that points stored order drawn dxf format indicating order points stored ccw easy convert don stored dont direction polygon visible dxf doesn handle this can recommend workaround can create two polygons for each dxf file stored and ccw that doubles number polygons and decreases speed advance for patrice hugo hydra unm edu
comp.graphics	fractals good iterated systems compression board compress pathology images and getting ratios loss quality taking mins per image compress mhz decompression almost real time software alone
comp.graphics	book found graphics covlir crockett rpi edu locks writes happened spot excellent book bookstore days ago and assembly teaches you assembly you and assembler experience don worry almost that wanted and working code rod covlin bought copy can disagree that good book for graphics feature described this book not mode easy accomodate pixel descriptor color attributes modes into afffff not interested haven finish book affraid author didn talk this mode svga modes good book dealing fast svga graphics manupulation scrolling repainting good stuff send mail programming guide svga card advance tiang foo tiang uokmax ecn uoknor edu tiang foo tiang uokmax ecn uoknor edu
comp.graphics	speedstar program truecolor mode purchased noname graphics card installed speedstar compatible name vga truecolor accompanied drivers and utilities vmode xmode and mode drivers for lotus windows etc drivers told provide truecolor mode windows driver pointer truecolor mode articles this group speedstar and facts made that card compatible that this mode can adjusted can write driver millions colors resolution interlaced wolfgang
comp.graphics	info needed contour plotting spend money time florida and find based software that will contour plotting irregular boundaries profile soil system pond superimposed surfer pond trial run interpolates contours into pond and creates artifacts borders soil product hearing response post summary and back lurking steve bloom soil water science sab gnv ifas ufl edu
comp.graphics	vesa standard vga svga programming question graphics programming vga svga vesa standard works documentation for vesa standard higher resolution vga mode video memory affff longer sufficient hold info trick fast image manipulation heard memory mapping video memory bank switching nothing implemented advice interest mode this mode called svga mode technique for fast image scrolling for mode deal svga cards your guidance books sources questions greatly appreciated send mail advance tiang foo tiang uokmax ecn uoknor edu tiang foo tiang uokmax ecn uoknor edu
comp.graphics	sphere points bolson carson washington edu edward bolson points coplanar find sphere that cnter and radius exactly fitting points equation sphere points this determininant expanded column you equation form you center and radius jyst divide cannot points form degenerate tetrahedron and complete square and obtain rcb slacvm slac stanford edu bob beach
comp.graphics	vesa speedstar vesa driver for diamond speedstar that works and work for hicolor modes john cormack cormackj access digex
comp.graphics	delaunay triangulation article lsk inn caspian usc edu zyeh caspian usc edu zhenghao yeh writes delaunay triangulation reference for creating objects advantage vast literature delaunay triangulations literally hundreds papers program even provided copy mathematica nowadays you this you interested for creating objects article boissonnat author boissonnat title geometric structures for dimensional shape representation journal acm transactions graphics month october year volume number pages
comp.graphics	rumours exist number licensed philips make variant this chip includes extra featurfes such ports bus making microcontroller confusion numbering philips products range core differend numbers pcf pcd
comp.graphics	gif bmp not this correct place this question not forgive and point direction program that converts gif files bmp files and can ftp greatly appreciated respond mail not read this group scott
comp.graphics	point polygon article apr bull scrowe hemel bull writes for algorithm determine point bound polygon such code reference book containing information subject regards simon function puntbinnenpolygoon auteur cornelis wessels datum omschrijving bepaalt aangeboden vector binnen rand van het polygoon valt wijzigingen clibstatus puntbinnenpolygoon polygoon vector vector index aantal snijpunten aantal snijpunten geefpolygoonlengte geefpolygoonrandpunt for geefpolygoonrandpunt interpoleerlineair return clibsucces aantal snijpunten kopieervector aantal snijpunten return cliberbuiten return clibsucces cornelis wessels krommenoord rotterdam netherlands kewe bskewe atr bso
comp.graphics	graphics packages for aix apr sun res utc mark sun res utc mark stucky writes qninniag tahko lpr carel ari suutari ari tahko lpr carel wrote good graphics packages for ibm aix for dec gks hewlett packards starbase good support for output devices plotters terminals etc graphigs ibm excellent package doug doug egan not you lockheed engineering and sciences you give houston tesla email egan blkbox
comp.graphics	vesa standard vga svga programming vesa standard works documentation for vesa standard vesa standard can requested vesa vesa north street suite san jose for vesa vbe and super vga programming starndards vesa defines local bus and standards vesa standard addresses ways application can find info and capabilities specific super vga implementation and control video mode selection and video memory access you set your pixels higher resolution vga mode video memory affff longer sufficient hold info trick fast image manipulation heard memory mapping video memory bank switching nothing implemented advice vesa defines window that used access video memory this window anchored spot you want write and you can write window takes you windows granularities you can anchor anywhere implementations two windows interest mode this mode called svga mode technique for fast image scrolling for mode deal svga cards this vesa mode set display start function that for scrolling your guidance books sources questions greatly appreciated send mail your bet write vesa for info announcements this group vesa software karl schultz schultz vnet ibm statements opinions not necessarily ibm
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library for mac rgc bcstec boeing robert carpenter writes netters building cad package and graphics library that can handle rudimentry tasks such hidden line removal shading animation etc can you offer recommendations not that hard books explain and basic functions translation rotation shading and hidden line removal pretty easy wrote program weeks witht book and happy give you source quickdraw lot functions built and pascal can access and expect that you can find use quickdraw graphics library excellent choice since lot stuff and built into mac fast libertarian atheist semi anarchal techno rat define tsa cellar org
comp.graphics	questions plane eqn method hidden surface removal main advantages this method described and algiorithm bit long developed method requires that points counter clockwise order and returns whether you back front similar plane eqn method calculations basically comparisons disadvantage that transformation view coordinates coordinates display screen means that calculation isneeded method basically figures whether points that will screen clockwise counterclockwise back points occur opposite direction front figuring points you can whether you back front polygon heard this method simple doubt libertarian atheist semi anarchal techno rat define tsa cellar org
comp.graphics	reprints reprints left chapters book visions future include reprints chapters interest readers this forum including current techniques and development computer art franz szabo forging career sculptor career computer programmer stewart dickson fractals and genetics future joel jeffrey happy send free reprints researchers for scholarly purposes reprints run send your name and address cliff cliff watson ibm
comp.graphics	church related graphics for good quality graphics files suitable for use church related presentations prefer vector helpful you bulletin boards collections this nature commercial products inform email haston utkvx utk edu wayne haston
comp.graphics	fastest line circle drawing routines short for fast assembly code for line circle drawing svga graphics complete thinking simple fast molecular graphics program write clones ball and stick type reasons programs that slow for this purpose platform class machine vga graphics speed important color for rendering purpose stay for speed reason hope code generic for svga cards card based trident not vesa for fast fast routines draw lines circles simple shapes mentioned svga resolutions assembly languagine fast related codes rotating zooming animating drawings screen drawings for beginning lines circles text you molecular graphics rotates zooms molecule and codes preferentially that can project final remarks profit expected become share free ware appreciated frankie lau tammy harvard edu pls email miss reply post
comp.graphics	rumours article apr mercury unt edu sean mcmains mcmains unt edu writes article apr rchland ibm ricardo hernandez muchado ricardo rchland vnet ibm writes and cpu doesn understand supposedly variation running mhz this speed you sprites wow interested hands fact that motorola not released supposedly lineup sean exists ricardo animation playback lawrence referring earlier post plain quicktime compact video codec digitized video apple early commercials precise running centris fps nicely bit color depth expect that algorithm risc processor approach full screen full motion animation you implied processor will taxed highly dynamic material sean mcmains check gopher phone university north texas bands info server fax box seanmac acs unt edu mail denton mcmains unt edu sean don want into mini war bit skeptic performance you claiming centris you flames reserve for chicago last consumer electronics show and apple had booth walked and showing real time video capture radious supermac card digitize and make spot quicktime movies quicktime digitized guy talking played back quite nicely and real time guy expanded window resized and frame rate decreased notice that wasn fps fps anymore dropped fps increased bit and dropped fps asked mac quadra don model and telling guys that quicktime play back speed even lcii spoiled claim since quadra mac bit trouble and this wasn even hardisk this memory that you newer version quicktime hardware assisted centris another software product running animation supposedly macromind accelerator don misunderstand want clarify this for sake posting computer not can claim tad overscan colors computer not hardisk fps scala agree mpeg stuff multimedia consumer low priced box lot market make longer raist owner colors bit palette love low fat sig don mail don valid address can send mail
comp.graphics	oak driver needed studio for studio driver for oak card ram this greatly and mean that appreciated card seth acpub duke edu
comp.graphics	manipulating hexagonal grid lets youve grid hexagons that etc for total rows that means hexagons line lined underneath second line lined underneath line lined neath fourht problem center arbritrary hexagon and line and arbritrary slope hexagons that line cross line doesn necessarily cross center hexagon can even tangent and count helpers friend baffeled figure this mohammad khan khan nova gmi edu july send mail mkhan nyx edu
comp.graphics	gif bmp scott zabolotzky saz hook corp mot wrote not this correct place this question not forgive and point direction program that converts gif files bmp files and can ftp greatly appreciated respond mail not read this group scott scott you post you can read shareware program anonymous ftp that will suit your you find oak oakland edu subdirectory pub msdos graphics file called grfwk zip tmc tmc spartan brocku
comp.graphics	for good book for beginners wanted you can recommend good book graphics and animated and vga svga advance mohammad khan khan nova gmi edu july send mail mkhan nyx edu
comp.graphics	graphics program vga working pascal routines for mode vesa compatable trident meg and program mode don care colors this code and write procedures replace that work that great code for mode procedure graphmode begin videomode asm mov mov int end end videomode procedure plotpoint integer begin mem end david
comp.graphics	reverse negative video interested simulating reverse negative color video mathematically transform simple reversal hue hsv color space manipulation yuv color space related solarization you want wild turn reverse video effect camcorder equipped and point monitor this creates chaotic dynamical system phase space continuous rotation zoom focus etc surprising and lovely write simulation this effect analog grunge for info you mail info post summary lance norskog thinman netcom data not information not knowledge not wisdom
comp.graphics	good concave convex polygon algorithm article juyz aly murdoch acc virginia edu rws uvacs virginia edu richard stoakley writes good concave convex polygon conversion routine couple luck mail responses and will post summary replies you richard stoakley rws uvacs virginia edu problem not precisely defined you find smallest convex polygon that encloses polygon you seeking convex hull your original polygon two ways this use somewhat tricky examined linear time algorithm that exploits polygon boundary feed vertices original polygon convex hull routine and accept log methods discussed preparata and shamos for example
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library for mac tsa cellar org silent assassin writes rgc bcstec boeing robert carpenter writes can you offer recommendations not that hard books explain and basic functions translation rotation shading and hidden line removal pretty easy wrote program weeks witht book and happy give you source wanted avoid reinventing wheel suggest that you your code and submit comp sys mac binaries distributed including ftp sites folks included enjoy extra code quickdraw lot functions built and pascal can access and expect that you can find use quickdraw graphics library excellent choice since lot stuff and built into mac fast clarify routines that mentioned places mac libray not rom mac years ago knew implementing graphics across demo apple grafsys library and lot quite limited sense that low level library your code plot individual points draw each line etc nauseum nothing for example you can handle objects things talking apple grafsys library unsupported never and plans exist future undocumented you call header files documentation graphics you figure assume software that output and time programmatically nicer easier program tax brent
comp.graphics	grayscale printer interested purchasing grayscale printer that offers good resoltuion for grayscale medical images can give recommendations products market for advice
comp.graphics	wingcommanderii graphics wondering can information graphics wingcommander series and realspace system use awesome and wouldn mind use similar features programs advance daemon
comp.graphics	vision site and email unavailable used information provided recent resource listings and ftp ccu aukland ftp mac architec vision facet and received unknown host message mail paul bourke pdbourke ccu aukland bounces basically problem rick rick pavek never droid outdo program kuryakin bcstec boeing seattle wastes your time and annoys droid
comp.graphics	apr computer graphics resource listing weekly part archive name graphics resources list part last modified computer graphics resource listing weekly posting part last change april plotting packages gnuplot and plotting packages online command line driven interactive function plotting utility for unix msdos amiga archimedes and vms platforms freely distributed supports terminals plotters and printers and easily extensible include devices posted comp sources misc version patches you can practically find use archie find site you comp graphics gnuplot newsgroup devoted discussion gnuplot xvgr and xmgr ace xmgr plotting tool for unix workstations openwindows xview version called xvgr for suns collectively tools ace compiling xmgr requires motif toolkit version and xmgr will not compile motif check ftp ccalmr ogi edu ccalmr pub acegr xmgr tar motif version ccalmr pub acegr xvgr tar xview version comments suggestions bug reports paul turner pturner amb ese ogi edu mail fails pturner ese ogi edu due time constraints replies will and robot release and limited based xview written fortran you fortran compiler translator tested sun decstations check ftp astro psu edu pub astrod plotting library this library fortran callable routines sunspot ceee nist gov xgobi developed bellcore and speciality multidimensional data sets analysis and exploration you can call language and works client athena widget set ascii terminal distributed free charge statlib cmu mail send email statlib temper stat cmu edu and body area message put line send xgobi general you want pick ftp connect lib stat cmu edu log statlib and use your mail address your password type general mget xgobi warning sources large postscript manual read relevant readme decide whether you not pgplot runs vax vms and supposedly unix set fortran routines freely copyrighted and requiring nominal fee that includes contour plots and support for devices including contact tjp deimos caltech edu ggraph host shorty wisc edu pub ggraph tar unknown details epigraph for pcs call dvj lab phys lgu spb vladimir dmitriev for details you can program demo and play version budapest posta fiok hungary fax budapest multiplot xln for amigas shareware usd aust advanced package that big list features contact alan baxter agb mbuc bio cam cambridge university department pathology tennis court road cambridge athena plotter widget set this version based gregory bond version beta added stuff for scientific graphs log axes free scalable axes lineplots and and added plotter callbacks request current pointer position cut rectangle plotting area for zooming version log bugs fixed and log improvements beta additionally extensions origin and frame lines for axes subgrid lines subtic positions line plots line types lines points lines points impulses lines impulses steps bars line styles solid dotted dashed dot dashed and marker types for data points legend left hand side plot optional drawing pixmap window layout callback for aligning axis positions multiple plotters application export lcs mit edu directory contrib plotter sciplot sciplot scientific plotting and manipulation program for requires nextstep and shareware features ascii import and export eps export copy cut paste data buffer free number data points data buffer and document window selective open and save plotting styles automatic legend subviews linear and logarithmic axes two axes text and graphic color support zoom normalizing and moving axis conversions free hand data manipulations cut edit move etc data editor sorting data absolute relative and free defined error bars calculating buffers background subtractions linear shirley tougaard bezier integration and relative integration fitting free defined functions linear regression calculations sin cos log etc function generator spline interpolation square smooth and fft smooth differentiation fft esca calculations and database and you can find ftp berlin pub science sciplot tar author michael wesemann scillerstr berlin germany mike fiasko berlin mpg plplot plplot scientific plotting package for systems small micro and large super alike despite small size and quickness power satisfy users including standard plots semilog plots log log plots contour plots plots mesh plots bar charts and pie charts multiple graphs sizes single page multiple lines each graph line styles widths and colors supported virtually infinite number distinct area fill patterns used almost characters extended character set this includes fonts greek alphabet and host mathematical musical and symbols fonts can scaled size for effects output device drivers system dependent including portable metafile format and renderer freely copyrighted anonymous ftp hagar utexas edu directory pub plplot present plplot work systems unix sunos unicos ultrix platforms vms amiga exec dos authors main supporters maurice lebrun mjl fusion utexas edu plplot kernel and metafile xterm xwindow tektronix and amiga drivers geoff furnish furnish fusion utexas edu dos and drivers tony richardson amr egr duke edu plplot supermongo plotting package cmu filename tmp tar ftp cmu edu andrew cmu edu machines gle gle high quality graphics package for scientists runs variety platforms pcs vaxes and unix drivers for xwindows regis tek graphics cards plotters postscript printers epson compatible printers and laserjet paintjet printers latex quality fonts full support for postscript fonts graphing module full control features graphs graphics primitives include user defined subroutines for complex pictures and diagrams accompanying utilities include surface for hidden line surface plotting contour for contour plots manip for manipulation columnar data files and fitls for fitting arbitrary equations data mailing list glelist send message listserver tbone biol scarolina edu message boyd containing sub glelist your name maintainer dean pentcheff dean tbone biol scarolina edu image analysis software image processing and display and mac based tools multi platform software imdisp imdisp written jpl and nasa sites can simple display enhancing smoothing and works fits and vicar pds data formats nasa can read tiff images you dimensions and macs labview labview used framework for image processing tools graphical programming environment block diagram sketch program graphical elements representing programming elements hundreds functions and connected wiring tool create block diagram program functions that block diagrams represent include digital signal processing and filtering numerical analysis statistics etc tool virtual instrument software file that and acts real laboratory instrument used part virtual instrument national instruments markets plug digital signal processing dsp boards for macintoshs and compatables that real time acquisition and analysis personal computer software tools for dsp allowing engineers harness power this technology tools range low level debugging software high level block diagram development software levels dsp programming associated dsp board and labview use dsp analysis library ffts power spectra filters routines callable and macintosh programers workshop mpw that execute dsp board analysis virtual interface library ready use vis optimized for dsp use national instruments developers toolkit that includes optimizing compiler assembler and linker for low level programming dsp hardware this approach offers highest level performance difficult terms ease use use national instruments interface kit software package utility functions for memory management data communications and downloading code dsp board this easiest route for development custom code ultimage concept concept graftek france family image processing virtual instruments vis that give labview described users high end tools for designing integrating and monitoring imaging control systems software file that and acts real laboratory instrument typical applications for concept include thermography surveillance machine vision production testing biomedical imaging electronic microscopy and remote sensing ultimage concept addresses applications require qualitative and quantitative analysis includes complete set functions for image enhancement histogram equalization spatial and frequency filtering isolation features thresholding mathematical morphology analysis density measurement object counting sizing and characterization program loads images minimum resolution pixel depth bits and image plane standard input and output formats include pict tiff satie and aipd formats can imported image enhancement features include lookup table transformations spatial linear and linear filters frequency filtering arithmetic and logic operations and geometric transformations morphological transformations include erosion dilation opening closing hole removal object separation and extraction skeletons quantitative analysis for objects detection measurement and morphological distribution measures include area perimeter center gravity moment inertia orientation length relevant chords and shape factors and equivalence measures saved ascii format program for macro scripting and integration custom modules view command plots perspective data graph image intensity depicted mountains valleys plot histogram tool can plotted linear logarithmic scale twenty arithmetic and logical operations provide for masking and averaging sections images noise removal making comparisons etc spatial filters that alter pixel intensities based local intensity include high pass filters for contrast and outlines frequency data resulting fft analysis can displayed real imaginary components phase magnitude data morphological transformations for data sharpening and defining objects for removing artifacts transformations include thresholding eroding dilating and even hole filling program quantitative analysis measurements include area perimeter center mass object counts and angle points gtfs inc bennett valley road santa rosa iplab spectrum iplab spectrum supports image processing and analysis lacks morphology and quantitative analysis features provided graftek franceus ultimage concept scripting tools user tells system operations performed problem that basic operations require manual intervention tool supports ffts arithmetic operations for pixel alteration and movie command for cycling windows macintosh based tools ncsa image ncsa paledit and ncsa suite public domain visualization tools for macintosh primarily aimed researchers wanting visualize results numerical modelling calculations applications documentation and source code for anonymous ftp ftp ncsa uiuc edu commercial versions ncsa programs developed spyglass spyglass inc devonshire drive champaign fax nih image alw nih gov preferably zippy nimh nih gov directory pub image painting and image manipulation tools macro language tools for measuring areas distances and angles and for counting things frame grabber card can record sequences images played back movie can invoke user defined convolution matrix filters such gaussian can import raw data tab delimited ascii byte quantities histograms and even plots limited bits pixel bits map into color lookup table runs mac that color screen and fpu nonfpu version zippy nimh nih gov photomac data translation inc locke marlboro photopress blue solutions marigold place thousand oaks pixeltools and tcl image complete family pixeltools hardware accelerator and applications software for scientific image processing and analysis video rate capture display processing and analysis high resolution monochromatic and color images includes source code tcl image software package for scientific quantitative image processing and analysis complete language for capture enhancement and extraction quantitative information gray scale images tcl image functions for image processing and contains elements needed full programming language for algorithm development variables and control structures easily extensible script indirect command files script files simply text files that tcl image commands executed normal commands and include ability pass parameters direct capture video images supported popular frame grabber boards tcl image comes view utility that conversion common image file types such pict and tiff perceptics pellissippi parkway knoxville satellite image workshop comes number satellite pictures raw data and sorts image enhancing you mac processor color display and large harddisk program doesn run system ate documentation contact address liz smith jet propulsion laboratory oak grove pasadena visualization workbench electronic imaging software system that performs interactive image analysis and scientific and plotting paragon imagine lincoln lowell adobe photoshop tool supports rtrue colors bit images levels grey scale once image imported can rre toucheds editing tools typical used macintosh based rpaints applications include eraser pencil brush and air brush advanced rpastes tools that control interaction pasted selection and receiving site incorporated for example red pixels selection can easily preventing pasted photoshop transparencies ranging allowing you create ghost overlays rphoto editings tools include control brightness and contrast color balancing hue saturation modification and spectrum equalization images can subjected signal processing algorithms smooth sharpen image blur edges locate edges image scaling supported for storage savings images can compressed standard algorithms including externally supplied compression such jpeg availlable storm technologies latest version adobe photoshop supports import numerous image formats including epsf epsf tiff pict resource amiga iff ilbm compuserve gif macpaint pixar pixelpaint scitex tga and thunderscan adobe systems inc charlestown road box mountain view colorstudio and imagestudio colorstudio image editing and paint package letraset that features adobe photoshop decidedly complex and difficult use steps required accomplish that can single step photoshop application requires great deal disk space can easily end images range program variety powerful selection tools including auto selection tool lets user choose image areas basis color close hues color range and mask imagestudio don letraset usa eisenhower drive paramus dapple systems high resolution image analysis software processing tools work multiple images enhance and edit and measure variety global feature parameters and interpret data dapple systems olive ave sunnyvale digital darkroom latest release digital darkroom selection and editing tools for enhancing images such feature user select part image simply painting polyline selection tool creates selection tool for single pixel wide selections brush lets operator paint selected portion image note that this not true color image enhancement tool this tool used user intends operate grey scale images noted that digital darkroom not powerful adobe photoshop colorstudio silicon beach software carroll ctr suite san diego dimple compatible system and system requires mac series colours recommended min ram capability reading erdas files functions include image enhancement and contour plots image statistics supervised and unsupervised classification pca and image transformations means image operation language iol you can write your transformations image rectification dimple compatable mapii latest version and beta stage testing dimple initially developed teaching tool and good for this purpose dimple runs colour macintosh product development phase doesn inbuilt features packages coming nicely inbuilt language for writing programs for processing image defining convolution filters etc dimple full mac application pull menus etc unprotected software process software solutions box wollongong south wales australia phone fax enhance enhance rrulers tool that supports measurements and additionally angle data tool mathematical filter variations laplacian medium noise filter etc files can saved tiff pict epsf text epsf files can imported microfrontier hickman road des moines image analyst image processing product for users extract quantitative data video images image analyst lets users configure sophisticated image processing and measurement routines necessity knowing programming language designed for such tasks computing number and size cells images projected video cameras attached microscopes enhancing and measuring distances radiographs image analyst users array field proven video analysis techniques that enable easily assemble sequence instructions enhance feature appearance count objects determine density shape size position movement perform object feature extraction and conduct textural analysis automatically image analyst works framegrabber board and standard video camera disk stored image minutes for programming image analyst user can set process identify and analyze element image measurements and statistics can automatically semi automatically generated tiff pict files captured video tape images image analyst recognizes items images based size shape and position tool direct support for data translation and scion frame grabbers menu command for image capture vcr video camera ntsc pal devices types files image and related sequence file that holds processing measurements and analysis that user defines automated sequences set regions interest roi represented movable sizable boxes atop image inside roi program can find distance two edges area shape thickness wall etc image analyst finds center edge and positions automatically application tools that user can work interactively find edge object supports histograms and color table clut tool automatix inc middlesex turnpike billerica iplab signal analytics corp maple ave vienna fax menu driven image processing software that supports bit color pseudocolor grayscale image display and manipulation map mac gis systems map distributed john wiley integrated image analysis image stanford anonymous ftp sumex aim stanford edu source for image and ready run code for mac image windows dos based tools ccd richard berry ccd imaging book for willamon bell contains optional disks image manipulating software source code included erdas erdas will things you want rectification classification transformations canned user defined overlays filters contrast enhancement etc thesis changed topic bit that work secondary erdas inc buford highway suite atlanta fax rsvga getting speed program called rsvga eidetic digital image british columbia for ibm clones cheap and stuff erdas not fast powerful had limited experience erdas used rsvga landsat bands and good starter program for obtuse manual imagine bit package suppose for pcs called imagine image program modest amount image processing add subtract multiply divide display and plot cut across image can display number images simultaneously company compuscope santa barbara vista announced august edition pasp mike richmond email addresses richmond bllac berkeley edu richmond bkyast berkeley edu and mail address michael richmond astronomy department campbell hall berkeley latest version vista version includes not source code and files complete set executable programs and number sample fits images you use source code you will microsoft version compilers work will require substantial modifications receive documentation and double density floppies quad density inch floppies send request for vista together your name and mail address office technology licensing shattuck ave suite berkeley include check traveller checks fine purchase order for dollars your address inside continental made regents university california cover duplication and mailing costs software tools set software tools put canyon state systems and software not free cheap heard will handle formats used frame grabber software mirage image processing software written jim gunn astrophysics dept princeton will run platforms based system language image processing displaying functions built data translation source book data translation company massachusetts publishes free book containing vendors data analysis hardware and software compatible data translation and frame grabbers surely you can find related stuff maxen couple canadians written program named maxen maximum entropy image deconvolution company named digital signal processing software that and software mentioned article astronomy magazine jan feb article ccd film jandel scientific java another software package java put jandel scientific jandel scientific koch road corte madera microbrian runs dos platform and bit graphics card vista released version will support number super vga cards full blown remote sensed data processing system menu driven character based screen not use windowed user interface hardware protected dongle mbrian micro barrier reef image anaysis system developed csiro commonwealth scientific industrial organization and marketed supported mpa australia lusher road croydon victoria tel fax educational and commercial prices prepared set for educational licence subsequent come cheaper installed sites worldwide widely used anu microimage remote sensing lab dartmouth terra mar microimage pcs fancy display hardware terra mar resource information services inc landings drive mountain view fax unix based tools iraf image reduction and analysis facility developed national optical astronomy observatory kitt peak free you can ftp tucana noao edu and complement stsdas stsci edu email iraf noao edu for details apparently this facto standards astronomical image community issue newsletter support users works vms last heard and practically shell top vms unix shells suggested that you copy saoimage for display windows flexible extendable tons literally linear feet documentation for general user skilled user and programmer alv sun specific image toolkit version posted comp sources sun dec email alv users request bris aips astronomical image processing system contact aipsmail nrao edu usenet newsgroups alt sci astro aips and sci astro fits built nrao national radio astronomy observatory charlottesville sites software distributed track exabyte dat anonymous internet ftp documentation postscript anonymous ftp baboon nrao edu directory pub aips and pub aips text publ installation requires building system and fortran and compiler this package can read and write fits data sci astro fits and primarily for reduction analysis and image enhancement radio astronomy data radio telescopes large array vla synthesis instrument consists almost programs that copying data sophisticated deconvolution maximum entropy based image tool xas and tek compatible xterm based graphics tool built into aips xas tool modelled hardware functionality international imaging systems model display unit and can image arithmetic etc code fortran system language modules and for suns ibm dec ultrix convex cray unicos and alliant support planned for solaris and sgi project aips underway rewrite algorithmic functionality aips modern setting and object oriented approach aips proprietary code licensed for free profit institutions owner nrao and nsf aips will public domain level international effort contributions canada england netherlands india and australia name laboimage version for written and runs sun xxx sun xxx and sunview expert system for image segmentation written allegro common lisp used domains computer science image analysis medicine biology physics distributed free charge source code anonymous ftp ftp ads pub vision list archive shareware laboimage contact prof thierry pun computer vision group computing science center geneva rue lac geneva switzerland phone fax mail pun cui unige pun cgeuge bitnet figaro originally made for vms and can obtained keith shortridge australia aaoepp aao gov and for unix sam southard caltech sns deimos caltech edu mbytes sun khoros moved scientific visualization category below vista real thing anonymous ftp lowell edu email vista lowell edu for details total size mbytes disimp device independent software for image processing powerful system providing user friendliness and high functionality interactive times feature description disimp incorporates rich library image processing utilities and spatial data options functions can easily accessed disimp executive this menu modular design and groups image processes function such logical structure means that complicated processes simply progression series modules processes include image rectification classification unsupervised and supervised intensity transformations dimensional display and principal component analysis disimp supports simple and effective enhancement techniques filtering band subtraction and ratioing host configuration requirements running unix workstations disimp capable processing computational intensive techniques interactive processing times disimp runtime and programmer environments programmers environment utilities can developed for specific applications programs graphics governed icon based display panel quick enhancments displayed image manipulations tables colour stretches histograms zooming and panning can interactively driven this control range geographic projections enables disimp integrate data image graphic and textual types images can rectified number coordinate systems providing true geographic knowledge essential for ground truthing overlays grids text and vector data can added enhance referenced imagery system flexible package allowing users skill levels determine working environment including amount required disimp comes fully configured optional extras purchase price includes functionality required for professional processing remote sensed data for information contact business manager clough engineering group systems division chapel street south yarra australia telephone fax global imaging software use global imaging software process avhrr data dish final display select chunk band data pass automatic navigation calibrate albedo and temp convert that byte register predesigned window relatively automatically and carefree classification routines speak isn that difficult write your programmer module small operation designs codes sells for number years sold weather service and navy runs supports bit display hips human information processing laboratory image processing system michael landy wrote and sell general purpose package for image processing used for basically usual image processing applications robotics medical satellite engineering oil exploration etc called hips and deals sequences multiband images deals single images growing since wrote additions huge user contributed library feature description hips set image processing modules together provide powerful suite tools for interested research system development and teaching handles sequences images movies precisely manner single frames programs and subroutines developed for simple image transformations filtering convolution fourier and transform processing edge detection and line drawing manipulation digital image compression and transmission methods noise generation and image statistics computation such image transformation programs developed result almost image processing task can performed quickly and conveniently additionally hips users easily integrate custom routines users become effective hips day hips features images that documenting each image stored system contains history transformations that applied that image hips includes small set subroutines primarily deals standardized image sequence header and large library image transformation tools form unix filters comes complete source code line manual pages and line documentation host configuration requirements originally developed york university hips represents extensive and flexible vision and image processing environments runs unix operating system modular and flexible automatic documentation actions and almost independent special equipment hips use variety computers including vax and microvax sun apollo masscomp ncr tower iris ibm etc for image display and input drivers supplied for grinnell and adage ikonas image processors and sun sun sun and sun consoles supply user contributed drivers for number framestores and windowing packages sun gfx sun console matrox vip iti lexidata macintosh windowing system and iris hipsaddon package includes interface for crs simple matter interface hips frame stores and can put interested users touch users interfaced hips arlunya and datacube max video hips can easily adapted for image display devices hips machine independent availability hips proven highly flexible system interactive research tool and for production oriented tasks easy use and quickly adapted and extended hips supplied magnetic tape unix tar format reel reel sun cartridge and comes source code libraries library convolu tion masks and line documentation and manual pages michael landy sharpimage software box prince street station york voice fax msl cns nyu edu mira don confuse that thalmanns animation system montreal altogether beasts nfotis mira stands for microcomputer image reduction and analysis mira workstation level performance dos computers svga cards color modes mira contains handsome functional gui mouse and keystroke operated mira reads writes tiff and fits formats native formats number ccd cameras and uncompressed binary images byte short integer and byte real pixel format dimensions result image processing operation can short integer real pixels that input image mira operation short floating point arithmetic maintain precision and accuracy pixel format functions hand coded assembly language for maximum speed intel hardware entire graphical interface written assembly language maximize speed windowing operations windows for image and image data display and analysis dedicated cursors read position and real time you move mouse smooth real time contrast and brightness stretch and panning magnified portion displayed image operated mouse wide selection grayscale pseudocolor and random palettes provided and palettes can generated supported functions include such niceties image image interpolation image constant unary operations abs polynomial pixel chs log byteswap clip values upper lower limits short real real short combine images mean median mode sum pixel values autoscaling mean median mode image section convolutions filters laplacian sobel edge operator directional gradient line gaussian elliptical and rectangular equal weight filters unsharp masking median filters user defined filter kernel ellipse rectangle line gradient gaussian and user defined filters can rotated angle ccd data reduction flat fielding dark subtraction column underscan bias removal remove bad pixels and column defects normalize region target mean median modal create subimage mosaic images larger image collapse image into image plot section collapsed section image plot histogram region image review change image information header data rename keywords plot keyword values for set images luminance photometry elliptical circular aperture photometry brightness profile isophotal photometry set upper lower luminances area and luminance inside traced polygon interactive background fitting and removal part image fit elliptical aperture shape image isophotes interactive image contrast brightness diagonal plot pixel values distance two points compute region stats centroid pan location image center zoom times change cursor rectangle crosshair full image crosshair and adjust cursor size image select linear log gamma transfer function histogram equalization interactive image offset computation and sampling for registration interactive image zoom steps times current center plot enlarge framed area plot buffers can cycled interactive data analysis polynomial fitting point deletion undelete change point weighting linear and quadratic loess and binomial smoothing revert unit point weights original data buffer substitute results into data buffer for pass back calling function dump data buffer overlays and error bars file printer change user coordinate system tricolor image combination and display hardcopy halftone printout pcl compatible printers laserjet deskjet etc documentation pages custom vinyl binder cost usd copy axiom research inc box tucson phone fax international marketing rep saguaro scientific corporation tucson arizona end part resource listing nick nikolaos fotis national technical univ athens greece home esperidon internet nfotis theseas ntua halandri mcsun ariadne theseas nfotis athens greece fax
comp.graphics	apr computer graphics resource listing weekly part archive name graphics resources list part last modified computer graphics resource listing weekly posting part last change april scene generators geographical data maps data files dems digital elevation models dems digital elevation models cartographic data huge spectrum xerox pub map contact lee moore webster research center xerox corp voice arpa internet moore wbst xerox check ncgia ucsb edu pub dems nfotis files rom selled usgs scale digital line graph dlg data contains datas for states price call visit offices menlo park reston virginia usa maps data user services division bureau census data rom tso standard format that derived usgs map data call for info bbs dobbs march defense mapping agency cooperation counterpart agencies canada and australia released digital chart world dcw this chart consists gigabytes reasonable quality vector data distributed roms includes coastlines rivers roads railrays airports cities towns spot elevations and depths and place names iso compatible and geological survey box denver federal center denver digital distribution services energy mines and resources canada booth street ottawa canada director general military survey survey elmwood avenue feltham middlesex united kingdom director survey australian army department defense campbell park offices campbell act australia fractal landscape generators public domain people written fractal landscape generators for example for mac generators written pdbourke ccu aukuni paul bourke programs ftp sites and mail archive servers check archie commercial vista pro for amiga virtual reality labs list price address vrl ganador court san luis obispo telephone fax scenery animator for amiga caliber vista pro check natural graphics box raklin phone don forget companion programs and data disks tapes vista pro ported pcs cia world map note this database quite date and not topologically structured you standard for world cartographic data wait for digital chart world this database produced defense mapping agency oncs and will together searching and viewing software number roms this summer check into hanauma stanford edu and ucsd edu ftp list cia database consists coastlines rivers and political boundaries form line strokes hanauma stanford edu array elevation data containing ieee floating point number for half degree longitude and latitude program for decoding database mfil can found machine arc umn edu another program reads compressed cia data bank file and builds phigs hierachical structure phigs extension polyline sets for performance you can use regular polylines joe stewart joes lpi liant raw data stanford require vplot package view posted comp sources unix exact you compile libvplot routines not package ncar data ncar national center for atmospheric research types terrain data ranging elevation datasets resolutions information soil types vegetation etc this data not free charge depending data volume and media exabyte tape cartridge track tape ibm floppy and ftp transfer data archive research oriented not hobbyist oriented for information email ilana ncar ucar edu unc data tapes voxel data public domain tapes data for comparison and testing volume rendering algorithms mri and scans tapes distributed softlab unc chapel hill softlab unc edu data sets volume and anonymous ftp omicron unc edu pub softlab chvrtd nasa agencies such nasa publish roms altimetry data space missions viking for mars magellan for venus etc for nasa suggest call address for info national space science date center goddard space flight center greenbelt maryland telephone email address request nssdca gsfc nasa gov data catalog not data online internet users can telnet nssdca gsfc nasa gov and log nodis password you can dial baud bits parity stop enter number prompt enter and carriage return system responds call complete enter carriage returns username and log nodis password nssdca anonymous ftp site comprehensive list present earth sciences data listing anonymous ftp sites for earth science data including imagery this listing called earth sciences resources internet and you can anonymous ftp csn org directory cogs name internet resources earth sci sites include aurelie soest hawaii edu pub avhrr images avhrr images ames arc nasa gov pub space cdrom images magellan and viking missions etc pub space index contains listing files archive index mail server for people internet access send letter archive server ames arc nasa gov ames archive server subject your letter body use commands send space index send space shuttle capitalization important text files handled email server present vab larc nasa gov pub gifs misc landsat landsat photos gif and jpeg format shut nfotis copy this archive daily values river discharge streamflow and daily weather data earthinfo central ave boulder disks expensive quantity discounts check vmd cso uiuc edu directory carries data surface analysis weather radar and sat view pics gif format updated hourly pioneer unm edu space and planetary image facility located university mexico campus ftp server anonymous ftp access roms data images disk earthquake data topography gravity geopolitical info ngdc national geophysical data center broadway boulder eosat sells landsat mss data older two years for per scene and talking similar deal for landsat data mss data bands meter resolution check anonymous ftp ftp ncsa uiuc edu unix polyview alpha shape for tool that creates convex hulls alpha shapes generalization convex hull point sets grips gov raster image processing software rom rom inc for code for viewing adrg arc digitised raster graphics files grips rom army engineer topographic labs juan perez code ftp adrg zip archive spectrum xerox nrcc range data rioux cournoyer nrcc dimensional image data files tech report cnrc national research council canada ottawa canada understand data laser range finder and you can copy for research purposes scanners digitized data cyberware labs monterey manufactures color laser digitizer can used model parts complete human body run service bureau can digitize models for you address cyberware labs inc harris suite monterey phone fax polhemus makes input device couple models that senses position and orientation based electromagnetic field interference this equipment incorporated vpl dataglove this hardware called isotrack keiser aerospace ascension technology makes similar input device company applied sciences that makes input device position based speed sound triangulation company that specializes digitizing viewpoint you can for viewpoint free page catalog full ready ship datasets categories such cars anatomy aircraft sports boats trains animals and objects quite expensive cataloge nevertheless interest for pictures objects wireframe polygon mesh contact viewpoint west center orem utah fax dataset addresses for companies that make digitizers ascension technology bird flock birds big bird trackers box burlington phone fax polhemus incorporated digitizer trackers box hercules colchester tel logitech inc red baron ultrasonic mouse kaiser freemont tel shooting star technology mechanical headtracker holdom ave burnaby canada tel fax spaceball technologies inc spaceball stationary input device suffolk street lowell tel fax tel mountain view transfinite systems gold brick powerglove for macintosh box mit branch post office cambridge tel email applelink apple vpl research inc eyephone head mounted display dataglove glove hand input device vpl research inc tower lane floor foster city tel fax simgraphics engineering flying mouse input device huntington suite south pasadena background imagery textures datafiles check ftp places that mentioned faq ftp list bit scanning good bit scanner epson suggested scsi port for speed eric haines had suggestion news volume scan textures for wallpapers and floor coverings etc doll house supplies you cheap scan patterns that don scaling troubles associated real materials and scanning area books textures find houses books magazines that carry photographic material educorp sells roms imagery wide variety stock art stock art big name stock art houses such comstock uniphoto and metro image base italy company called belvedere that makes such books for purpose clipping pages for inclusion your graphics work address edition belvedere rome italy piazzale flaminio tel fax texture libraries mannikin sceptre graphics announced textiles set bit textures initial shipments bit iff for amigas bit tiff format algorithmically built for tiled surfaces srp volume each volume images disks demo disks for contact mannikin sceptre graphics indiana ave winter park phone fax essence library sixty algoritmic textures for imagine impulse inc textures fully compatible floating point versions imagine imagine and even turbo silver written steve worley for info contact essence info apex software publishing camino real suite menlo park usa texture city introduction rendering algorithms ray tracing assume you general understanding computer graphics read books that faq contains for ray tracing suggest introduction ray tracing andrew glassner academic press isbn note that not read book feel that you can wrong book errata list posted comp graphics eric haines erich eye concise reference roman kuchkuda unc chapel hill introduction ray tracing theoretical foundations for computer graphics and cad earnshaw nato vol printed springer verlag contains code for small fundamentally complete ray tracer buffer depth buffer good reference procedural elements for computer graphics david rogers mcgraw hill york pages and info needed nfotis can find geometric data for teapot displays display column ieee jan story origin martin newell teapot article bezier patch model and pascal program display wireframe model teapot ieee sep jim blinn column jim blinn corner describes another model teapot bezier curves rotations for example used and spd packages objects you advised avoid typing data data triangles specific resolution triangles meshing per patch spd package spline patch descriptions and performs tessellation resolution space shuttle tolis lerios tolis nova stanford edu built list space shuttle datafiles summary sci space list model modified version newsgroup model model vertices referred polygon descriptions polygons vertex vertex vertex vertex payload doors existent units unknown simon marshall marshall sequent hull copy proprietary information associated model newsgroup model format you can find gondwana ecr file pub objects shuttle geo hanauma stanford edu pub graphics comp graphics objects shuttle data model triangles model this model stored files each defining portions model greg henderson henders infonode ingr copy not mention restriction model distribution model nasa model file starts header line containing real numbers defining offsets used lockheed simulations offset offset offset file consists sequence polygon descriptions vertices polygons vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex payload doors closed units inches jon berndt jon jsc nasa gov responsible for model proprietary info unknown model shuttle model file consists sequence polygon descriptions vertices polygons vertex vertex payload doors open units meters this model star labs stanford university for years contact tolis nova stanford edu supervisor scott williams scott star stanford edu you want copy image annotation software touchup runs sunview and pretty good reads rasterfiles even your image isn stored rasterfile format you use screendump make rasterfile idraw part stanford interviews distribution can handle image formats addition macdraw tool not exactly you can ftp idraw binary interviews stanford edu tgif another macdraw tool that can handle bitmap xbm and pixmap xpm formats image you formats xbm xpm you can pbmplus toolkit convert things gif even macintosh formats xpm tgif sources pub directory ucla edu version tgif patchlevel patch and patch use editimage facility khoros below this utility system you can essentially your image processing and macdraw type graphics this package you pbmplus pbmtext you text output bitmaps can overlaid top your image ice requires sun hardware running openwindows postscript based graphical editor and for anonymous ftp internet host soest hawaii edu requires sun and two locally developed packages lxt library xlib based toolkit and small class library files pub ice tar pub lxt tar and pub ldgoc tar compressed tar format pub ice tar contains readme that installation instructions extensive man page ice statically linked compressed executable pub ice sun for sparc systems for ftp software property columbia university and not redistributed permission ice means image composition environment and imaging tool that raster images combined wide variety postscript annotations wysiwyg fashion imaging routines and news postscript rasterizing use imagemagick annotate image your server pick position your text cursor and choose your font and pen color pull menu imagemagick can read and write popular image formats imagemagick export lcs mit edu contrib imagemagick tar your nearest archive scientific visualization stuff data slice xds bundled distribution mit contrib directory ftp ncsa uiuc edu source binaries for platforms national center for supercomputing applications ncsa tool suite platforms unix workstations dec ibm sgi sun apple macintosh cray supercomputers availability source code public domain ftp ftp ncsa uiuc edu contact national center for supercomputing applications computing applications building springfield ave champaign cost free dollars suite includes tools for image and scene analysis and visualization code actively maintained and updated spyglass sell commercial versions ncsa tools examples spyglass dicer volumetric data analysis package platform mac spyglass transform data analysis package platforms mac sgi sun dec ibm contact spyglass inc box champaign khoros patch anonymous ftp pprg eece unm edu pub khoros huge good unix and freely copied not complete sources and docs extensive and heart visual programming khoros components include visual programming language code generators for extending visual language and adding application packages system interactive user interface editor interactive image display package extensive library image and signal processing routines and plotting packages comp soft sys khoros usenet and relative faq for info contact khoros group room eece dept university mexico albuquerque email khoros request chama eece unm edu macphase analysis visualization application for macintosh operates and data arrays import export file formats plotting options such gray scale color raster wire frame surface contour vector line and combinations ffts filtering and math functions color editor array calculator etc shareware anonymous ftp sumex aim stanford edu info mac app directory for information contact doug norton mail compuserve iris explorer application creation system developed silicon graphics that visualisation and analysis functionality for computational scientists engineers and scientists explorer gui users build custom applications write minimal amount traditonal code existing code can easily integrated into explorer environment explorer sgi and cray machines will become platforms time bundled sgi machine comp graphics explorer comp sys sgi for discussion package two ftp servers for related stuff modules etc ftp epcc swedishchef lerc nasa gov mirror site ape back good days you ape for free commercial and vendor supplies taravisual corporation harrison avenue columbus ohio tel and fax cost tax runtime version site license for single user time limit number machines cluster includes support maintenance and upgrades source code additional user licenses name package become ape iii khoros similar ape philosophy avs and explorer avs comp graphics avs platforms convex cray dec evans sutherland ibm kubota set technologies sgi stardent sun wavetracer availability avs for unix workstations contact advanced visual systems inc ave waltham telephone fax avs avs email advanced visual systems inc for cray ibm sgi stardent sun convex for convex advanced visual systems inc cray for cray dec for dec evans sutherland for evans sutherland advanced visual systems inc ibm for ibm kubota pacific inc for kubota set technologies for set technologies wavetracer for wavetracer ftp site for modules data sets info avs ncsc org wit nutshell package genre avs explorer etc image processing system generic scivi system imho major elements visual programming language automatically exploits inherent parallelism code generator converts graph standalone program iconified libraries present rich set point filter transform morphological segmentation and measurement operations flow library graphs employ broadcast merge synchronization conditional and sequencing control strategies wit delivers object oriented distributed visual programming environment users rapidly design solutions imaging problems users can consolidate software and hardware developments complete cad workspace adding operators functions objects data structures and servers specialized hardware wit runs sun sgi and supports datacube hardware allowing you run your graphs real time for free wit demo disk call fax mail poon ubc stating your complete name address voice fax mail info and desired platform pricing wit for sparc free upgrades days technical support academic institutions discounts contact logical vision suite gilmore burnaby canada tel fax terry arden poon ubc vis system for visually exploring output gridded data sets such made weather models platforms sgi iris vgx gtx graphics sgi crimson indigo elan graphics suggested irix ibm graphics aix version stardent and truecolor display case ram suggested you can freely nasa support anonymous ftp ftp iris ssec wisc edu ftp ftp pub vis ftp ascii ftp readme ftp bye note you can find package wuarchive wustl edu graphics graphics packages directory read section readme file for full instructions and install vis contact bill hibbard whibbard vms macc wisc edu brian paul bpaul vms macc wisc edu dataexplorer ibm platforms ibm risc system ibm power visualization server simd mesh mhz working announced sgi sun contact your local ibm rep for trial package your rep contact david kilgore data explorer product marketing yktvmh kilcore wavefront data visualizer personal visualizer advanced visualizer platforms sgi sun ibm dec availability platforms wavefront technologies educational programs and site licenses contacts mike wilson mike wti wavefront technologies inc east montecito street santa barbara fax wavefront europe guldenspoorstraat gent belgium fax wavefront technologies japan shinjuku sumitomo bldg nishi shinjuku shunjuku tokyo japan fax plot and fast nasa ames packages distributed cosmic for fast pat elson pelson nas nasa gov for distribution information general codes for citizens xgraph contrib tape specialty display data sets ncar national center for atmospheric research original graphics packages runs sun sgi vax cray decstations and contact graphics information ncar scientific computing division box boulder scdinfo ncar ucar edu cost edu unlimited users gov user users users users multiply gov idl environment for scientific computing and visualization based array oriented language idl includes and graphics matrix manupulation signal and image processing basic statistics gridding mapping and widget based system for building gui for idl applications open motif windows environments dec vms and ultrix ibm sgi sun microsoft windows mac version progress cost educational and quantity discounts comp lang idl pvwave idl pvwave bundle contact research systems inc street suite boulder phone fax mail info rsinc demo ftp call mail for details idl sips lot people idl package called sips this developed university colorado boulder people working for alex goetz you contacting you idl willing buy thousand dollars american expect for idl and free general purpose packages heard terramar sips written for aviris imagery not general purpose you contact goetz people and another piece software pcw that and walsh transformations pseudocoloring and clustering and limited image modification you can compute image selected components used megabyte aviris images problems for speed you external dsp card will work large images quite times long process that freebie you want favorite idl interactive data language research systems inc idl opinion and infinitely easier programming language strong and easy pascal handles number crunching personally number crunching idl vax mathematica igor even excel mac not hairy bringing nih image for imaging part encounter situation that combination couldn handle and speed and ease use compared iraf incredible astronomical image processing this means image enhancement cleaning bad lines pixels and traditional image processing routines for example taking graph intensity versus position line choose mouse curve fit that line kaleidagraph for idl call research systems for wave call precision visuals and for sips call university colorado boulder can understand you can packaged programs research systems nfotis visual contact robert haimes mit fieldview interactive program designed assist engineer investigating fluid dynamics data sets platforms sgi ibm sun terminals availability platforms educational programs and volume discounts contact intelligent light box fair lawn steve kramer kramer ilight scian scian primarily intended visualizations data interactive environment ability generate animations frame accurate video recording devices user manual line and technical notes will you use program cost free source code provided ftp platforms sgi machines and ibm card buffer find ftp scri fsu edu pub scian mirror monu monash edu pub scian scry readme scry distributed image handling system that pro vides image transport and compression local and wide area networks image viewing workstations recording video equipment and storage disk system can distri buted workstations supercomputers and works tations and supercomputers workstations and video animation controllers system commonly used produce video based movie displays images resulting visualization time dependent data complex data sets and image processing operations clients and servers run variety systems that provide unix run time environments and bsd sockets source for anonymous ftp csam lbl gov pub scry tar contact bill johnston wejohnston lbl gov ucbvax csam lbl gov johnston david robertson dwrobertson lbl gov ucbvax csam lbl gov davidr imaging technologies group lawrence berkeley laboratory cyclotron road berkeley svlib fvs svlib windows widget set based osf open software foundation motif widget set svlib widgets macro widgets comprising lower level motif widgets such buttons scrollbars menus and drawing areas designed address reusability visualization routines and each widget library encapsulation specific visualization technique such colormap manipulation image display and contour plotting targetted run unix workstations supporting osf motif color monitors supported since svlib collection widgets developed spirit osf motif user interface widget set integrates seamlessly motif widgets programmers svlib widgets interface and design motif widgets fvs visualization software for computational fluid dynamics cfd simulations fvs designed accept data generated simulations and apply visualization techniques present data graphically fvs accepts dimensional multi block data recorded ncsa hdf format iti gov pub svlib scientific visualization fvs directories demo binaries for sun sgi cost for academic and for academic institutions for each items you getting source for licence contact miss quek lee hian member technical staff information technology institute national computer board ncb building sicence park drive singapore republic singapore tel fax email leehian iti gov gvlware distribution bob interactive volume renderer for sgi raz disk based movie player for sgi icol motif color editor army high performance computing research center ahpcrc developing set tools work large time dependent and data sets graphics and visualization lab gvl tools side standard packages such sgi explorer and utah raster toolkit render volumes and create digital movies couple general purpose programs bundled into package called gvlware gvlware consisting bob raz and icol ftp interesting program bob interactive volume renderer for sgi raz streams raster images disk sgi screen enabling movies larger memory played icol color map editor that works bob and raz source and pre built binaries for irix included acquire gvlware anonymous ftp machine ftp arc umn edu file pub gvl tar use gvlware mkdir gvl gvl zcat gvl tar tar xvf readme bob features motif interface sgi rendering renders cubed data set seconds vgx alpha compositing and maximum rendering perspective maximum rendering personal iris data brick bytes regularly spaced grid animation subvolumes subsampling stereo raz features motif interface sgi rendering loads files raw disk partition streams screen requires empty disk partition set script interface for movie sequences can stream memory ncsa ximage icol features motif interface easy create interpolated color maps key points rgb hsv and yuv color spaces multiple file formats communicates automatically bob and raz tested sgi sun dec and cray systems btw bob brick bytes icol interpolated color raz name send comments gvlware ahpcrc umn edu this software collection supported army research office contract number daalo university minnesota army high performance computing research center iap imaging applications platform commercial package for medical and scientific visualization volume rendering binary surface rendering multiplanar reformating image manipulation cine sequencing intermixes geometry and text images and measurement and coordinate transform abilities can provide hardcopy medical film printers image database functionality and interconnection medical mri etc scanners client server based and object oriented interface runs high performance workstations and takes full advantage parallelism robust efficient and will submitted for fda approval for use medical applications cost for oem developer for educational developer and run times starting and based quantity developer packages include two days training for two people toronto isg technologies airport road mississauga ontario canada mail rod gilchrist rod isgtec molecular visualization stuff based list cristy dupont cristy asked for systems for displaying molecular dynamics for short flex public domain package written michael pique scripps research institute jolla flex stored compressed tar archive perutz scripps edu pub flex displays molecular models and trajectories macmolecule for macintosh searched archie and promising place sumex aim stanford edu info mac app and info mac art for demo display runs sgi machines call terry lybrand lybrand milton washington edu xtalview crystallography package that visualize molecules and xview toolkit call duncan mcree dem scripps edu landman hal physics wayne edu writing visualization code output specific format easy alter for subroutine program hooks into gks your friend access phigs for pex and fortran bindings happy share evolving code free charge can display supercells atoms easy change and time steps drawing nearest neighbor bonds defining radii works acceptably fast mhz icsg caesar montana edu project molecular visualization for master thesis unix motif generates simple point and space filling model kgngraf kgngraf part motecc malena crs pub motecc motecc info txt information motecc plain ascii format motecc info troff information motecc troff format motecc form troff motecc order form troff format motecc license troff motecc license agreement troff format motecc info information motecc postscript format motecc form motecc order form postscript format motecc license motecc license agreement postscript format ditolla itnsg cineca working molecular dynamic friend mine and developed program display run dynamically silicon graphics working improve doesn work graphi lib silicon faster end post news info ftp will free software xball written david nedde call daven maxine wpi edu xmol window system program that osf motif for display and analysis molecular model data data common file formats can read and written current formats include alchemy chemlab gaussian molsim mopac pdb and msci xyz format designed for simplicity translating and formats xmol for conversion formats xmol ftp msc edu read pub xmol readme for details insight biosym technologies inc scarecrow program published molecular graphics program can analyze and display charmm discover yasp and mumod trajectories program package contains software for generation probe surfaces proton affinity surfaces and molecular orbitals extended huckel program works silicon graphics machines contact leif laaksonen leif laaksonen csc laaksone csc multi niehs nih gov pub multi multi process molecular modeling suite mindtool runs sunview and requires fortran compiler and sun cgi libraries mindtool tool provided for interactive graphic manipulation molecules and atoms atoms input anonymous ftp rani chem yale edu directory pub mindtool check archie for sites that suggest sgi applications directory contains packages nfotis gis geographical information systems software grass geographic resource analysis support system army construction engineering research lab cerl popular geographic and remote sensing image processing package grass geographic information system image processing package reported significant image processing capabilities feature descriptions use grass public domain and can obtained internet for free grass runs unix and written source code can obtained anonymous ftp office grass integration you compile source code for your machine scripts provided grass recommend grass for workstation and limited budget grass not user friendly compared macintosh software review overview documentation that and pixel resampling functions not packages good general purpose image enhancement routines fft kelly maurice vexcel corp boulder primary user grass this gentleman used grass software and developed multi spectral bands volumetric rendering full color suns and stardents effective interface vexcel corp contract map part venus and convert magellan radar data into contour maps you can call email care greg vexcel host configuration requirements you willing run you install grass macintosh significant image analysis and import capabilities for satellite data grass public domain and can run high end unix raster based image processing capability and can display vector data analysis raster environment used grass sun workstation and found easy use for data that represented raster grid cell form availability cerl office grass integration ogi maintains ftp server moon cecer army mil mail this site addressed grass ftp admin moon cecer army mil this location will canonical source for grass software bug fixes contributed sources documentation and files this ftp server supports dynamic compression and uncompression and tar archiving files feature attraction server john parks grass tutorial manual beta test stage john requests that people acquire willing review and mail comments corrections ogi not maintaining this document correspondence directed grassx tang uark edu support listserv mailing lists grassu list amber cecer army mil for grass users application level questions support concerns miscellaneous questions etc send subscribe commands grassu request amber cecer army mil grassp list amber cecer army mil for grass programmers system level questions and tips tricks and techniques design and implementation grass applications send subscribe commands grassp request amber cecer army mil lists maintained office grass integration subset army corps engineers construction engineering research lab champaign ogi providing lists service community ogi and cerl employees will participate lists can make claim content veracity messages that pass list you questions problems comments send mail lists owner amber cecer army mil and human will respond microstation imager intergraph based huntsville alabama sells wide range gis software hardware microstation base graphics package that imager sits top imager basically image processing package heavy gis remote sensing flavor feature description basic geometry manipulations flip mirror rotate generalized affine rectification affine and order models projective model warp image vector map another image rgb ihs and ihs rgb conversion principal component analysis classification means and isodata fourier xforms forward filtering and reverse filters high pass low pass edge enhancing median generic complex histogram contrast control layer controller manages images time user can extract single bands band image create color images combining individual bands etc package designed for remote sensing application can handle large images and kinds software for gis applications host configuration requirements runs intergraph workstations unix machine similar sun rumors rumors that software ported and possibly sun environment pci company called pci inc richmond hill ontario canada makes array software utilities for processing manipulation and use remote sensing data ten industry standard formats lgsowg bsq landsat and couple titles forget software versions for dos unix workstations sun and ibm and vms and quite possibly platforms use vms version pci software consists classes groups packages utilities grouped function operating common pci database disk file tape package set utility programs read remote sensing industry tape formats into write formats pci database file this package use packages can display data pci database another pci supported party color displays output numeric bitmap representation image data attached printer epson type dot matrix graphics printer you spe cifically interested mathematical operations package histo gram and fourier analysis equalization user operations multiply channel add channel and store channel and god lot don and don use can you buy packages your application interest calls for each utility controlled parameters read common parameter file vms your default directory utilities will share parameters and use parameter for purpose can bit confusing setting series operations standard pci environment contains scripting language similar ibm basic you automate process setting parameters for common complicated lengthy difficult series utility executions vms can invoke utilities independently dcl command procedure optional programming library you write compiled language programs can interface read write pci data structures database file parameter file pci software designed specifically for remote sensing images requires such level operator expertise that once you reach level you can handle images you can figure ways handle things for instance tape package offers utility for reading headerless multi band adobe photoshop macintosh calls raw data tape number interleave orders this turns ideal for manipulating graphic arts industry format haven handle targa and you you you can screw nth degree and start worth noting that pci database file designed not raster image data vectors for overlaying map information entered digitizing table land use and manner information observe that remote sensing image tape contains manner information spectral bands latitude longitude time date etc original satellite pass this can into pci database that workstations built display used vax systems workstations pci supports couple specific party display systems name gould deanza come mind personal workarounds display program display directly pci database file peritek vct bus bit directcolor display subsystem pci software overkill your case designed for high end applications users for mac largely doesn suffice you gap getting smaller time coincidence that pci located canada country lot land resource management remote sensing canadian government pci software for work areas spam spectral analysis manager back jpl developed called spam spectral analysis manager fair amount use time that designed for airborne imaging spectrometer imagery byte data pixels across lines bands modified version since developed for aviris airborne visual and infrared imaging spectrometer larger images spam things rectification classification and ihs transformations filtering contrast enhancement overlays limited filtering and contrast enhancement stretching spam aimed spectral identification and clustering original spam sunview display aviris version require vicar executive based tae and require frame buffer can refer you people you interested pcw requires for display map mac gis systems map distributed john wiley clrview clrview dimensional visualization program designed exploit real time capabilities silicon graphics iris computers this program designed provide core set tools aid visualization information cad and gis sources supports integration common disperate data sources such dxf tin dem lattices and arc info coverages clrview can obtained explorer dgp utoronto directory pub sgi clrview contact rodney hoinkes head design applications centre for landscape research university toronto tel email rodney dgp utoronto end resource listing nick nikolaos fotis national technical univ athens greece home esperidon internet nfotis theseas ntua halandri mcsun ariadne theseas nfotis athens greece fax
comp.graphics	apr computer graphics resource listing weekly part archive name graphics resources list part last modified computer graphics resource listing weekly posting part last change april faqs including this listing archive site pit manager mit edu alias rtfm mit edu directory pub usenet news answers name faq archived appears archive name line top article this faq archived graphics resources list part mail server that machine you send mail message mail server pit manager mit edu containing keyword quotes message body you can places for this listing item places find resource listing for information items changed arranged subjects order fir article limit plan changing headers careful resource listing keys remain subject line places find resource listing graphics editors public domain free and shareware systems plotting packages molecular visualization stuff thinking making this post weekly you lines changed character front added lines prepended removed lines removed use diff locate this text copyright nikolaos fotis you can copy freely this file provided you this copyright notice intact compiled nikolaos nick fotis mail nfotis theseas ntua contact for updates corrections etc disclaimer not guarantee accuracy this document use your risk this guide for computer graphics software suggest reading comp graphics faq for image analysis stuff entitled date comp graphics frequently asked questions faq john grieggs grieggs jpl devvax jpl nasa gov poster official comp graphics faq included comments braces and nikolaos fotis contents resource listing part places find resource listing archie notes computer graphics ftp site list eric haines mail servers and graphics oriented bbses ray tracing graphics related mailing lists graphics editors public domain free and shareware systems commercial systems scene description languages solids description formats part plotting packages image analysis software image processing and display part scene generators geographical data maps data files scanners digitized data background imagery textures datafiles introduction rendering algorithms ray tracing buffer depth buffer can find geometric data for teapot space shuttle image annotation software scientific visualization stuff molecular visualization stuff gis geographical information systems software future additions send updates info places find resource listing this file crossposted comp graphics comp answers and news answers you can locate comp graphics you advised search comp answers news answers groups archived your site contact your sysadmin for info articles posted comp graphics times month and places below faqs including this archive site pit manager mit edu alias rtfm mit edu directory pub usenet news answers name faq archived appears archive name line top article this faq archived graphics resources list part mail server that machine you send mail message mail server pit manager mit edu containing subject field inria graphlib mail server mirrors this posting subject mail servers resource listing accesible wais machine enuxva eas asu edu port name graphics resources list digest type line numbered item for purposes indexing another place that monitors listing maasinfo files for info contact robert maas rem btr another place search for faqs general switch swiss academic and research network system switzerland interactive telnet nic switch login info move info service usenet periodic postings directory search index file typing and word for you read faq faqs directory decide fetch methods ftp login nic switch user anonymous and enter your internet style address prompted for password info service usenet periodic postings mail send mail rfc archive server nic switch archive server nic switch prmd switch admd arcom enter bodypart receive instructions information required subject header line archie archie service system locate ftp places for requested files appreciated that you will use archie asking newsgroups archie servers archie aussie archie funet finland eur archie darmstadt ger huji israel archie kuis kyoto japan archie sogang korea archie ncu edu telnet twn archie doc ireland archie sura net usa archie unl edu password archie usa archie ans net usa archie rutgers edu usa archie zealand connect archie server telnet and type archie username type you can xarchie archie clients that call archie burden telnet session xarchie contrib tape and archie comp sources misc vol information use archie mail send mail subject archie account sites note janet pss users united kingdom archie site accessible janet host doc connect and archie host name and archie username notes excerpted faq article not post mail messages can ftp mail this number automated mail servers that will send you things this response message number sites that archive usenet sources newsgroups and make email query system you send message automated server send comp sources unix fbm and hours days you file mail computer graphics ftp site list eric haines computer graphics related ftp sites and maintainers compiled eric haines erich eye and nick fotis nfotis theseas ntua ray tracers rayshade great ray tracer for workstations for mac amiga pov son and successor dkb trace written compuservers for questions call drew wells compuserve dave buck david buck carleton art ray tracer good range surface types part vort package dkbtrace another good ray tracer reports pcs mac amiga unix vms last two previewer etc rtrace portugese ray tracer bicubic patches csg text etc etc dos version for use djgpp dos extender exists mac port vivid shareware raytracer for pcs binary author stephen coy coy ssc vax boeing source version registered users direct author ray steve hollasch dimensional ray tracer renders hyperspheres hypertetrahedra hyperplanes and hyperparallelepipeds separate real time wireframe viewer written called wire mtv qrt dbw ray tracers interesting features distributed parallel raytracers xdart distributed ray tracer that runs server binaries work decstations sparcs snakes series and clients distributed binaries and source inetray network version rayshade sun rpc newer contact andreas thurnherr ant ips ethz prt pray parallel ray tracers volume renderers vrend cornell volume renderer kartch devine caffey warren fortran radiosity and diffuse lighting renderers radiance ray tracer radiosity effects greg ward excellent shading models and physically based lighting simulation unix based ported amiga and india indian radiosity package based radiance sgi rad interactive radiosity package that runs sgi machines spaceball includes house database author guy moreillon moreillo ligsg epfl rad simple public domain radiosity package solution can run stand alone unix box walk requires sgi author bernard kwok kwok yorku renderers not raytracers and graphics libraries sipp scan line buffer and phong shading renderer shadow buffer algorithm tcl sipp tcl command interface sipp rendering program tcl sipp set tcl commands used programmed sipp write and compile code commands used surfaces objects scenes and rendering options renders ppm format utah raster toolkit rle format photo widget based applications vogle graphics learning environment device portable vogl sgi library based vogle rend fast polygon renderer for intel and version not photorealistic real time renderer xsharp dobb journal renderer source code budget texture mapping modellers wireframe viewers vision mac modeler can output radiance rayshade files irit csg solid modeler support for freeform surfaces wireframe viewer for wireframe graphics toolkit source objects stuff major archives wuarchive such file dkit zip shareware front end modeler for povray beta test french docs for price for registering french francs save disabled extra utilities dxf files for registered version geometric viewers salem based package dobkin for exploring mathematical structures geomview based package for and interactively manipulating objects geometry center minnesota xyz geobench experimental geometry zurich workbench for geometric computation for macintosh computers wire wireframe previewer for steve hollasch ray data formats and data sets for ray tracing spd set procedural databases for testing ray tracers nff simplistic file format used spd another file format lispy file format tddd imagine modeler format converters for rayshade nff etc includes nice postscript object displayer great models ttdddlib converts tddd ttddd nff rayshade imagine and vort objects outputs framemaker mif files and isometric views postscript registered users tex font converter and superquadric surfaces generator glenn lewis glewis pcocd intel note ttdddlib dlib chvrtd chapel hill volume rendering test datasets includes volume sets for two heads brain knee electron density maps for rna and written material rendering news collections articles ray tracing bib references articles ray tracing refer format rad bib references articles radiosity global illumination speer bib rick speer cross referenced bib postscript abstracts collection tom wilson abstracts articles paper bank project technical papers electronic form contact juhana kouhia tut online bibliography project acm siggraph online bibliography project database unique computer graphics and computational geometry references bibtex format computer graphics community research and educational resource database located siggraph org users download bibtex files ftp and peruse offline telnet siggraph org and log biblio and interactively search database for entries interest keyword for people internet access mail server send mail archive server siggraph org and subject body message include message send topic and subtopic you good place start command send index will give you date list information additions corrections suggestions directed admin bibadmin siggraph org image manipulation libraries utah raster toolkit nice image manipulation tools pbmplus great package for image conversion and manipulation libtiff library for reading writing tiff images imagemagick package for display and interactive manipulation images format miff and includes converters based image display manipulation and format converter xloadimage xli displays formats screen khoros huge excellent system for image processing visual programming interface and windows fbm another set image manipulation tools somewhat img image manipulation displays screen bit xflick plays fli animation xanim plays resolution fli gif including gif animation extensions and amiga iff animations and iff pictures including ham ehb and color cycling sdsc sdsc image tools package san diego supercomputing center for image manipulation and conversion clrpaint bit paint program for sgi bit workstations and bit indigos libraries code for graphics graphics gems iii code books spline patch tar spline patch ray intersection routines sean graves kaleido computation and display uniform polyhedra mirrored wuarchive this package computes and displays metrical properties polyhedra author zvi har mail gauss technion means site official distributor date north america for things your continent wuarchive wustl edu graphics graphics contents file for roadmap graphics graphics objects tddd ttddd objects and converters mirrors unix graphics rayshade ray tracer mtv ray tracer vort ray tracer fbm pbmplus popi utah raster toolkit mirrors msdos graphics dkb ray tracer fli raytracker demos pub rad tar sgi rad graphics graphics radiosity radiance and indian radiosity package msdos ddjmag ddj zip version xsharp fast texture mapping lots including bibs graphics gems code rtn radiance nff sipp spline patch intersection routines textbook errata source code roy hall book illumination and color computer generated imagery etc graphics graphics packages kaleido kaleido george kyriazis kyriazis turing rpi edu princeton edu pub graphics note capital rayshade ray tracer and separate executable color quantization code spd news wilson abstracts bib utah raster toolkit newer fbm graphics gems iii code pub graphics directory salem and stuff craig kolb cek princeton edu replaces weedeater math yale edu note capital pub graphics trouble princeton incoming area you can upload rayshade specific stuff weedeater math yale edu alfred ccs carleton pub dkbtrace dkb ray tracer pub pov ray pov ray pvray compuserve group ray tracer pov david buck david buck carleton avalon chinalake navy mil objects multiple formats utilities file format documents this site created object repository for net francisco dejesus dejesus archimedes chinalake navy mil omicron unc edu pub softlab chvrtd chapel hill volume rendering test datasets ftp official ddj ftp repository xsharp peipa essex pilot european image processing archive directory ipa synth that image synthesis packages adrian clarke alien essex barkley berkeley edu tcl extensions tsipp tar tcl sipp mark diekhans markd grizzly markd neosoft acs cps msu edu pub sass window fonts converter into rayshade polygons rayshade animation tool ron sass sass cps msu edu hobbes lbl gov radiance ray trace radiosity package greg ward gjward lbl gov geom umn edu pub geomview geomview contact for geomview software geom umn edu ftp arc umn edu pub gvl tar latest version bob icol and raz source manual man pages and binaries for irix included bob real time volume renderer pub contains volume datasets ken chin purcell ken ahpcrc umn edu ftp kpc pub graphics holl steve hollasch thesis pub graphics ray ray pub graphics wire wire pub mirror avalon mirror avalon objects repository steve hollasch hollasch kpc swedishchef lerc nasa gov programs hollasch ray sgi explorer modules and postscript manual etc zamenhof rice edu pub graphics formats electronic documents object and image formats mark hall foo rice edu will apparently longer maintaining ftp ncsa uiuc edu rascal ics utexas edu misc mac inqueue vision facet based modeller can output rayshade and radiance files ftp ncsa uiuc edu misc file formats graphics formats contains image and object format descriptions scivi tools directories sgi alpha shape alvis tar alpha shape visualizer sgi machines sgi polyview polyview interactive visualization and analysis geometrical structures quincey koziol koziol ncsa uiuc edu tucana noao edu iraf iraf astronomy package ftp ipl rpi edu sigma erich spd images and haines thesis images pub images and bit image stills and sequences kevin martin sigma ipl rpi edu ftp psc edu pub tar lispy scene language renderers joel welling welling seurat psc edu ftp lbl gov pbmplus tar rayshade data files jef poskanzer jef ace lbl gov george lbl gov pub ccs lib ccs tar ccs complex conversion system standard software interface for image processing hanauma stanford edu pub graphics comp graphics comp graphics extensive ray tracers dbw mtv qrt and joe dellinger joe hanauma stanford edu ftp net graphics irit news back issues not complete nurbs models graphics related material graphics jpeg jpegsrc tar independent jpeg group package for reading and writing jpeg files freebie engin umich edu utah raster toolkit spencer thomas thomas eecs umich edu export lcs mit edu contrib pbmplus image magick xloadimage xli img lots pub untarred mit demos gpc ncga graphics performance characterization gpc suite life pawl rpi edu pub ray kyriazis stochastic ray tracer george kyriazis kyriazis turing rpi edu utah edu pub utah raster toolkit nurbs databases jamie painter jamie utah edu gatekeeper dec pub dec tar models gpc benchmark files planned not checked randi rost rost kpc hubcap clemson edu pub amiga incoming imagine stuff for amiga imagine turbo silver ray tracers pub amiga ttdddlib ttdddlib pub amiga incoming imagine objects objects glenn lewis glewis pcocd intel pprg eece unm edu pub khoros khoros image processing package huge great danielle argiro danielle bullwinkle unm edu expo lcs mit edu contrib pbmplus portable bitmap package poskbitmaptars bitmap collection raveling img xloadimage jef poskanzer jef venera isi edu pub img tar and img tar image manipulation pub images rgb separation photos paul raveling raveling venera isi edu ucsd edu graphics utah rle toolkit pbmplus fbm databases mtv dbw and ray tracers world map stuff not updated recently castlab engr wisc edu pub tar pub xdart xdart mark spychalla spy castlab engr wisc edu sgi graphics tiff tiff spec libtiff software and pics sgi and related stuff opengl manuals sam leffler sam sgi supercedes okeeffe berkeley edu for libtiff stuff surya waterloo edu graphics fbm ray tracers ftp sdsc edu sdscpub sdsc ftp brl mil brl cad information brl cad package ray tracer images test images texture library begun lee butler butler brl mil cicero umass edu texture temp grayscale brodatz textures julien flack julien scs leeds karazm math edu pub graphics rtabs shar wilson abstracts pray eric townsend jet karazm math edu jet nas nasa gov ftp pitt edu users qralston images bit image archive small james ralston crawford qralston pitt edu ftp cornell edu pub vis vrend sunee waterloo edu pub raytracers vivid rend sunee uwaterloo archive umich edu msdos graphics graphics stuff msdos graphics raytrace vivid apple apple pub archivevol prt research att netlib graphics spd package polyhedra polyhedra databases you don ftp use netlib automatic mail replier research netlib internet netlib ornl gov send line message send index for info send haines graphics spd siggraph org siggraph archive site publications online bibliography project conference proceedings electronic formats papers panels siggraph video review information and order forms stuff directories automatic mailer archive server siggraph org send index ftp unc edu pub reaction diffusion greg turk work reaction diffusion textures windows code siggraph avs ncsc org ftp volvis volume datasets boston workshop volume visualization this site international avs center terry myerson tvv ncsc org uvacs virginia edu pub suit demo sparc dec etc suit simple user interface toolkit finger suit uvacs virginia edu detailed instructions nexus yorku pub reports radiosity code tar rad pub reports radiosity thesis rad msc thesis this site will changed ftp yorku future milton washington edu ftp public veos veos virtual reality and distributed applications prototyping environment for unix veos software support veos support hitl washington edu oldpublic fly fly visualization software demo that package built for fly throughs datasets real time binaries for platforms virtual reality stuff zug csmil umich edu xpecs files lcd glass shutter for amiga computers great for stuff sugrfx acs syr edu stereo pair images closed sunsite unc edu pub academic computer science virtual reality final copy sugrfx acs syr edu archive that ceased exist contains powerglove code papers images and irc research material jonathan magid jem sunsite unc edu archive cis ohio state edu pub siggraph code for siggraph procedural modeling and rendering techniques david ebert ebert cis ohio state edu lyapunov ucsd edu this machine considered repository for preprints and programs for nonlinear dynamics signal processing and related subjects and fractals matt kennel mbk inls ucsd edu cod nosc mil pub grid tex ascii short survey methods interpolate and contour bivariate data ics uci edu honig stereo pair images movie animates movie display bit and mono digital subtraction taurus nps navy mil pub dabro cyberware demo tar human head data pioneer unm edu pub texture maps hans buf grayscale test textures aerial swatches brodatz textures synthetic swatches space planetary image repository access roms data images line time pub info beginner info you start browsing colby kraybill opus pioneer unm edu brown edu srgp sphigs for info srgp sphigs mail software distribution graphtext brown edu pdb pdb bnl gov data organic molecules bonds atoms etc atomic coordinates and load stuff contained ent files actual atomic dimemsions missing you convert data pov rayshade etc biome bio pub art renoir paintings escher pictures etc umanitoba specmark sample set images images edge rom images atomic landscapes advanced semiconductors superconductors and experimental surface chemistry contact ruskin umanitoba explorer dgp toronto edu pub sgi clrpaint clrpaint pub sgi clrview clrview tool that aids visualization gis datasets formats dxf dem arc info etc ames arc nasa gov pub space cdrom images magellan and viking missions etc pub space index pub spacelink spacelink service data below mail server send mail archive server ames arc nasa gov ames archive server subject send space index quotes peter yee yee ames arc nasa gov pubinfo jpl nasa gov images data etc jpl missions modem access parity data bits stop bit newsdesk jplpost jpl nasa gov phone spacelink msfc nasa gov passwd guest space graphics and gif images nasa planetary probes and hubble telescope main function support for teachers you can telnet this site dial access baud bits parity stop bit stsci edu hubble space telescope stuff images and data read readme pete reppert reppert stsci edu chris dea odea stsci edu pit manager mit edu pub usenet news answers land faqs graphics and pictures directories interest mail server pit manager mit edu sending mail message containing archive avatar news back issues for details write kory hamzeh kory avatar avatar europe nic funet pub sci papers paper bank project including pete shirley entire thesis pics wilson abstracts pub misc cia worldmap cia world data bank comp graphics research archive india and juhana kouhia tut dasun epfl radiance good for european sites doesn carry add ons that for radiance isy liu pub sipp sipp tar sipp scan line buffer and phong shading renderer jonas yngvesson jonas isy liu irisa ipsc pray ray tracer spd nff spd nff format scenes rayshade data files didier badouel badouel irisa irisa disappeared phoenix oulu fli raytracker animation files vga big flis rayscene demos americans check wuarchive animations come jari kahkonen hole phoenix oulu jyu pub graphics ray traces ray tracers including pray dbw dkb mtv qrt rayshade news nff files jari toivanen toivanen jyu garbo uwasa stuff etc source contour fortran program contour scattered data linear triangle based interpolation asterix inescn pub rtrace rtrace nffutils tar nff utilities for rtrace medical data cat etc converters nff autocad nff autolisp code autocad scn rtrace language converter and goodies antonio costa acc asterix inescn vega hut graphics rtn archive ray tracers mtv qrt nff models shut months ago check nic funet nfotis sun nluug pub graphics raytrace dbw microray mtv etc unix hensa misc unix ralcgm ralcgm tar cgm viewer and converter mail server mail archive unix hensa message body send misc unix ralcgm ralcgm tar maeglin luth graphics raytracing prt doc wilson abstracts vivid ftp berlin pub unix graphics rayshade inputs tar rayshade aquarium americans check princeton edu heiko schlichting heiko math berlin maggia ethz pub inetray inetray and sun rpc code andreas thurnherr ant ips ethz osgiliath dth pub amiga graphics radiance amiga port radiance per bojsen bojsen ithil dth ftp informatik uni oldenburg pov raytracer mirrored wuarchive goods for pov pub dkbtrace incoming polyray polyray raytracer pub dkbtrace incoming ftp uni pub amiga raytracing imagine mirror hubcap imagine files neptune inf ethz xyz xyz geobench peter schorn schorn inf ethz iamsun unibe graphics graphtal system interpreter christoph streit streit iam unibe amiga physik unizh amiga gfx graphics stuff for amiga computer stesis eso org line access huge astronomical database login starcat passwd decnet stesis space telescope european coordination facility benoit pirenne bpirenne eso org phone middle east gauss technion kaleida australia gondwana ecr pub vort art ray tracer vogle wilson ray tracing abstracts pub contrib artscenes art scenes italy pub images haines haines thesis images graphics gems code spd nff databases nff and previewers and bit images and lots stuff pub rad tar sgi rad bernie kirby bernie ecr munnari pub graphics vort tar vort art csg and algebraic surface ray tracer vogle pub dbw pbmplus graphics room tar art scenes italy david hook dgh munnari marsh curtin edu pub graphics bibliography facial animation pub graphics bibliography morph pub graphics bibliography stuff facial animation morphing and user interfaces pub fascia fred parke fascia program valerie hall val lillee curtin edu oceania asia ccu aukland ftp mac architec vision facet based modeller can output rayshade files neat things for macs paul bourke pdbourke ccu aukland scslwide sony ftp sgi facial animation steve franks site for facial animation steve franks stevef csl sony stevef umr edu mail servers and graphics oriented bbses check ftp places archie don overuse mail servers troubles wrong return addresses mail servers command path valid return mail address hint for sending back you stuff dec ftpmail send line message ftpmail decwrl dec subject field and line containing word you back message detailing relevant procedures you follow order files you want note that reply answer command your mailer will not work for this message mail you receive ftpmail send requests ftpmail send original mail message not reply complaints ftpmail request dec address postmaster since decwrl postmaster not responsible for fixing ftpmail problems bitftp for bitnet sites bitftp pucc send line message this address for info lightwave mail based file server mail based file server for objects bit jpeg images gif images and image maps online for internet mail access server official archive site for lightwave mail list and contains and shareware graphics utilities for computer platforms including amiga atari ibm and macintosh server resides bbs called graphics bbs bbs operational hours day days week phone number upgraded modem hayes ultra bis bis speeds bps bps you submit objects scenes images server pack uuencode and mail files address server bobsbox rent for information obtaining files server send mail message address file server graphics rent body message dir and file describing use server and complete directory listing will you mail includes cyberware head and shouders ttddd format check you can use ftp nfotis inria graphlib pierre jancene and sabine coquillart launched inria graphlib mail server months ago echo mail inria graphlib inria will give you quick summary inria graphlib contains and browse files echo send contents mail inria graphlib inria will return extended summary example echo send cgrl misc mail inria graphlib inria will return computer graphics resource listing mirrored comp graphics bbses bbses that store datafiles etc etc guide scope this listing and resources author you can point internet mail accessible bbses that carry interesting stuff send info studio amiga modelling and ray tracing specific bbs hours meg online jeff walkup pwappy castle bis bis mnp pacifica dang close san francisco california usa user password tao oin base castle anim video sig lazerus bob lindabury operates bbs entry for graphics bbs you can call ray ray tracing related bbs chicago suburbs digital pixel sysop mark mcng descartes waterloo edu based toronto ontario canada phone storage space megs modem type baud zyxel bis mnp access fee free system supported dos amiga mac netmail echo mail topics raytracing fractals graphics programming cad comp graphics related david tiberio dtiberio sunysb edu amiga graphics bbs long island york running hours bis megs line subscribe mailing lists originate bbs added include lightwave imagine real ray tracing database files include imagine objects renderings scalable fonts music modules sound samples demos animations utilities text databases and pending lightwave objects graphics alternative graphics alternative cerrito running hours day hst bis online and user base tga runs two nodes node for public access and includes free day trial subscription tga west coast host for pcgnet profesional cad and graphics network supporting nodes across continental alaska zealand australia france and tga file database includes dos executables for pov vivid rtrace rayshade polyray and tga numerous graphics utilities viewers and conversion utilities registered vivid users can download latest vivid aeta code special vivid conference scott bethke sbathkey access digex intersection bbs this bbs dedicated supporting animators system provided free charge and not commercialized users full access call features usenet news internet mail fidonet echo netmail megs online bis bis modem platforms interest amiga videotoaster macintosh dos unix workstations sun sgi etc atari alfonso hermida afanh robots gsfc nasa gov square bbs maryland supports raytracers such pov and vivid bbs runs mhz megs hard drive and rom runs bps this will change topics graphics programming animation raytracing programming general lynn falkow roxxie delphi vertech design graphic connection portland oregon bis bbs carrying typical bbs services message bases topic specific and files cad and graphics related hundreds megabytes offers material texture files that full color seamlessly tiling photo realistic images samples time callers bbs subscription system callers hours subscribe and subscription rates people interested materials can subscribe library addition basic subscription rate and can use purchased time download whichever materials ray tracing graphics related mailing lists imagine modeling and animation system for amiga send subscription requests imagine request email paramax send material imagine email paramax dave wickard substituted steve worley maintenance mailing list note that unisys address longer valid lightwave for amiga part newtek video toaster send subscription requests lightwave request bobsbox rent send material lightwave bobsbox rent bob lindabury toaster send subscription requests listserv karazm math edu body subscribe toaster list real another modeling and animation system for amiga subscribe send mail containing body subscribe real your full name listserv uwa edu rayshade send subscription requests rayshade request princeton edu send material rayshade users princeton edu craig kolb alladin for amiga send subscription requests subscribe xamiga linet org and body message write alladin username domain radiance greg ward author sends registered mail users digests correspodence notes fixes updates etc address gjward lbl gov rend send subscription requests rend request sunee waterloo edu send material rend sunee waterloo edu pov ray dkb raytracers subscribe send mail containing body subscribe dkb your full name listserv trearn bitnet send material dkb trearn bitnet mailing list for massively parallel rendering send subscription requests render request icase edu send material render icase edu graphics editors public domain free and shareware systems vision mac based program written paul bourke pdbourke ccu aukland program can used generate models directly rayshade and radiance file formats polygons shareware and listed ftp list brl solid modeling system for environments including sgi and csg and nurbs support for manifold geometry you can free ftp signing and returning relevant license found ftp brl mil ray tracing for engineering analyses contact carla moyer tel fax cad dist brl mil mail snail mail brl cad distribution surviac aberdeen satellite office philadelphia road suite aberdeen usa irit constructive solid geometry csg modeling program for and includes freeform surface support free ftp list for find surfmodel solid modeling program for written turbo pascal ken van camp simtel msdos srfmodl directory noodles cmu fritz printz and levent gursoz elg styx edrc cmu edu based manifold topology for info don give xyz xyz interactive editor builder written dale stocker create objects for surfacemodel automove and dkb raytracer packages xyz free and can found for example simtel msdos surfmodl xyz zip dos dmod msdos program check barnacle erc clarkson edu pub msdos graphics dmod undocumented file format dmod micah silverman pierrepoint ave postdam york tel northcad shareware msdos cad ncad zip simtel undocumented file format vertex amiga shareware send check money order art machine nickolas sterling heights usa addition standard file formats including lightwave imagine sculpt turbo silver geo and wavefront this release offers professional and rayshade support rayshade supported primitive triangle you can easily include this output your rayshade scripts latest demo version fred fish for information contact author alex deburie sycom org phone icoons amiga spline based object modeller icoons interactive coons path editor amiga physik unizh gfx icoons lzh free gnu licence and requires fpu program feel cross journeyman and imagine and generates objects ttddd format load journeyman objects into icoons program can used convert jman objects imagine format author helge rasmussen compel phone fax fred fish disk series nfotis protocad ver trius shareware wsmr simtel army mil and oak oakland edu pcad zip for pcs this menu layout file file handling load save import xport draw draw objects line circle box draw objects mesh sphere block edit editing features copy move surface modify objects revolve xtrude sweep image image zooming features update window half option global defaults grid toggles axis plot print drawing picture image render shade objects frame lighting tune layer layer options select active layer set colors sculptura runs windows and outputs pov files demo can found wuarchive wustl edu mirrors win demo demo zip author michael gibson gibsonm stein washington edu commercial systems alpha spline based modeling program written university utah features splines trimmed nurbs support for boolean operations sweeps bending warping flattening etc groups objects and transformations extensible object types applications include machining animation utilities dimensioning fem analysis etc rendering subsystem support for animations support platforms and sgi machines and irix sun sparcstation sunos licensing and distribution handled egs glenn mcminn president engineering geometry systems east south temple suite salt lake city mcminn utah edu educational pricing charge per platform you run system workstations that type you for each platform licensing fee for portable standard lisp psl bundled system you obtain additional license university utah for psl address professor robert kessler computer science department university utah salt lake city utah egs can handle licensing psl for institutions for usd nominal fee nfotis vertigo educational institution program package used industrial design architectural scientific visualization educational broadcast imaging and post production fields quoting letter nfotis donate fully configured vertigo graphics software worth usd per package qualified educational institutions for licencing number silicon graphics personal iris power series workstations you use iris indigo station will licence vertigo revolution software worth usd you interested participating this program send letter mail fax your institution letterhead briefly outlining your potential for vertigo together information unix version model and number sgi systems peripheral devices party software participants will asked contribute usd per institution cover costs manual administration and shipping recommend that vertigo users subscribe technical support services for annual fee you will receive technical assistance support hotline bug fixes software upgrades and manual updates for educational institution will waive administration fee support purchased annual support fee cost for additional machines number machines additional cost per machine day training program nfotis contact vertigo technology inc suite west georgia vancouver canada phone fax such offers tdi alias softimage wavefront etc this interesting part nfotis padl basically solid modeling kernel top you build your application license cornell programmable automation cornell university engineering and theory center ithaca license fees low for educational institutions and gov agencies internal commercial licenses and dissemination licenses for information packet write address send your address marisa cpa cornell edu richard marisa acis spatial technology solid modelling kernel callable heard that universities free copies company person contact acis academic institutions scott owens mail sdo spatial and address spatial technology inc bldg boulder phone fax movie byu cquel byu basically understanding this fem pre and post proccessor system fairly today serves people mech eng depts superseded cquel byu pronounced sequel that complete modelling animation and visualization package runs usual workstation environments sun dec sgi ibm and you can demo version days trial period sending usd address blank tape costs for full run time licence contact engineering computer graphics lab clyde building brigham young univ provo phone mail cquel byu edu twixt add stuff reply fax voxblast volume renderer marketed vaytek inc fairfield iowa phone running pcs fpu call vaytek for info voxelbox volume renderer for windows features include direct ray traced volume rendering color and alpha mapping gradient lighting animation reflections and shadows runs higher bit video card svga fine windows costs contact jaguar software inc main suite winchester jwp world std john poduska scene description languages nff neutral file format eric haines simple procedural database generators spd package and objects floating ftp sites previewer written starbase haines written vogle you can use devices vogle can output check sites carrying vogle gondwana ecr object file format dec randy rost rost kpc object archive server mothballed future version remove ref nfotis mail server obtain this service send message subject line containing word and null message body object archive server decwrl dec for ftp places relevant place previewer for sgi machines called preview godzilla cgl rmit previewers for xview and sunview gondwana tddd library objects translators nff rayshade imagine vort objects edited copy announcement follows raytracing news library objects ftp steve worley worley cup portal assembled set objects binary format called tddd objects range human figures airplanes semi trucks lampposts objects freely distributable and readmes that describe order convert objects human readable format file specification tddd included directory objects shareware system called ttdddlib officially hubcap clemson edu that will convert ala pbm object formats imagine ttddd extension tddd nff rayshade vort source included for amiga unix executables for amiga outputs framemaker mif files and isometric views postscript pittsburgh supercomputing center lisp slight extensions store dimensional models simple lisp interpreter included release access vendor lisp run this software mouse driven user interfaces for motif open and silicon graphics and drawp subroutine library for generating underlying lisp software supports renderers painter painter algorithm dore silicon graphics inc language generic phigs sun phigs dec phigs rayshade art ray tracer vort package and pixar renderman code anonymous ftp machines ftp psc edu directory pub and nic funet directory pub graphics programs renderman pixar renderman not free call pixar for details solids description formats eec esprit project cad cad interfaces developed neutral file format for transfer cad data curves surfaces and solid models cad systems and cad caa computer aided analysis cam computer aided manufacturing iges define standard tranfer solid models brep and csg current standard number ansi for documentation you want contact nancy flower ncga technical services and standards ext and cost this standard not electronic format pdes step this slowly emerging standard encompass not geometrical information for things fem etc main bodies this standard nist and darpa you can information pdes sending mail nptserver cme nist gov and putting line send index body not subject area message people rutherford appleton lab working step tools express compiler and exchange file parser source form and for free for research purposes will express based database system for tools contact mike mead phone fax mail inf mcsun uknet rlinf inf nsfnet relay end part resource listing nick nikolaos fotis national technical univ athens greece home esperidon internet nfotis theseas ntua halandri mcsun ariadne theseas nfotis athens greece fax
comp.graphics	ellipse offset since people quickly solved problem determining sphere points suddenly recalled problem find ellipse offset for example points offset can you find original ellipse analytically spent two months solving this problem analytical method last year failed pressure had use method nonlinear programming technique deal this problem approximately ideas will greatly appreciated post share interests yeh usc
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library for mac cellar org tsa cellar org silent assassin writes building cad package and graphics library that can handle rudimentry tasks such hidden line removal shading animation etc can you offer recommendations apda called macwireframe full wire frame and supposedly hidden line removal library weighs wrong order magnitude libertarian atheist semi anarchal techno rat can relate that jon tte nada kth mac hacker deluxe clear disc you can seek forever
comp.graphics	yhe fonts pov polyray vivid fonts vivid pov polyray borland bgi font converter vvfont zip this program can found ftp informatik uni oldenburg directory pub dkbtrace utils wuarchive mirrored this site directory graphics graphics mirrors ftp informatik uni oldenburg pub dkbtrace utils nice utilities present this directory version polyray for asked for can found sites directory incoming utils ply this directory povshell and found nive raytrace time peter peter vanderveen visser wau department genetics agricultural university wageningen netherlands
comp.graphics	newss working project including and moving grapics database jpeg and mpeg come mind formats choice for files read net forms each want settle file format can count standard format years apple support quicktime power and this format choice format apple quicktime use for products guess kind mpeg for motion picture standard mpeg files for info art pollarda xray byu edu
comp.graphics	viewer wanted for public domain viewer not fancy features want simple wireframe display flat shading simple transformation nice hidden line information appreciated
comp.graphics	cview answers apr imag schaefer imag imag arno schaefer writes bryan this not quite correct remember vgalib package that comes linux sls will switch vga mode xwindows write gif viewer linux don that exists similar svga package and viewing gifs not nice vgalib amazing guess lost subdirs for correcting doesn sound appealing glad wasn major missed
comp.graphics	cview answers article lerr rahul net bryanw rahul net bryan woodworth writes apr whiting mcs sean whiting mcs sean gum writes stupid question will cview run and can gif viewer for linux windows boy hell you view gifs graphics linux windows love linux easy learn you want text use linux you want text and graphics use linux windows simple painless required windows you want graphics this includes fancy word processors doc image viewers etc bryan this not quite correct remember vgalib package that comes linux sls will switch vga mode xwindows write gif viewer linux don that exists similar svga package and viewing gifs not nice regards arno arno schaefer ensimag annee email schaefer silene imag tel
comp.graphics	specs info apple quicktime specs verbose interpretation specs for quicktime technical articles magazines and references books nice specs format usable unix dos system can quicktime stuff ftp apple present format advance james murray add sciences sdsu edu
comp.graphics	genoa graphics board drivers ftp site opened ftp site for getting latest software drivers for genoa graphics cards access ftp login ftp password ftp pub genoa binary prompt hash you wanna latest drivers for board series mget quit this sequence drivers you question email regards stefan hartmann email harti mikro berlin
comp.graphics	cview answers levt rahul net bryanw rahul net bryan woodworth writes qlobb tuegate tue renew blade stack urc tue rene walter writes info dangers reading floppy disks omitted unrevcoverable careful incredibly poor programming for program this nevertheless important bug that squashed pointing that overlooked mind that will affect targeted users cview don use cview anymore that had explaind this bug thread not fault cview dos you leave file open floppy drive change disk and updates closes that file you good chance getting part directory and fat disk written disk this true and destroyed data programs not cview thing cview can improve situation not leave files open actively reading and decoding kevin martin sigma rahul net gotta another hat
comp.graphics	fast polygon routine needed this fairly routine request for fast polygon routine used game that works slow point pref asm that fairly documented and flexible lucas
comp.graphics	fast polygon routine needed article news cso uiuc edu osprey cso uiuc edu lucas adamski writes this fairly routine request for fast polygon routine used game fast polygon routine
comp.graphics	rumours article apr mercury unt edu mcmains unt edu sean mcmains writes wow interested hands fact that motorola not released supposedly lineup built mmu don even that moto manufactures ian romanick dancing fool epsilon contained thoughts opinions epn ntsc quality psu not agree don douche anti freeze dead milkmen
comp.graphics	windows graphics viewer howdy wondering people mail opinions graphics viewers for windows working project set scanner and write documentation use and nice snazzy image viewer and even edit image you scanned file formats for gif jpeg tiff pcx major file formats lot for your grant grant totten programmer analyst trent university peterborough ontario gtotten trentu phone fax days knights bold and women cautious gallant days women women and men obnoxious
comp.graphics	rumours article apr rchland ibm ricardo rchland vnet ibm ricardo hernandez muchado writes article apr mercury unt edu sean mcmains mcmains unt edu writes article apr rchland ibm ricardo hernandez muchado ricardo rchland vnet ibm writes and cpu doesn understand supposedly variation running mhz this speed you sprites snip not ricardo animation playback lawrence referring earlier post plain quicktime compact video codec digitized video apple early commercials precise running centris fps nicely bit color depth expect that algorithm risc processor approach full screen full motion animation you implied processor will taxed highly dynamic material snip booth walked and showing real time video capture radious supermac card digitize and make spot quicktime movies quicktime digitized guy talking played back quite nicely and real time guy expanded window resized and frame rate decreased notice that wasn fps fps anymore dropped fps increased bit and dropped fps asked mac quadra don model and telling guys that quicktime play back speed even lcii spoiled claim since quadra mac bit trouble and this wasn even hardisk this memory that you newer version quicktime hardware assisted centris another software product running animation supposedly macromind accelerator don misunderstand want clarify this box based arm risc processor two custom graphics chips dsp double speed cdrom and ram vram fuzzy breakdown graphics chips and ram vram capacity demonstrated recent gathering electronic cafe santa monica mical amiga lynx fame and hal josephson talk machine and plan unit displaying full screen movies compactvideo codec nice blockiness showing clips jaws and backdraft and high frame rate boot fps note that screen resolution compactvideo pretty amazing wanted point that quicktime slow dynamically resizes material stated material had compressed large size play back fine and this quite bit price generality personally don use dynamic sizing movies playing back stuff original size plenty quick latest machines not centris mhz stacks mhz arm box arm faster rob barris quicksilver software inc rbarris orion oac uci edu
comp.graphics	fast polygon routine needed article apr sophia smith edu orourke sophia smith edu joseph rourke writes article news cso uiuc edu osprey cso uiuc edu lucas adamski writes this fairly routine request for fast polygon routine used game fast polygon routine draw polygons vga mode game and asm faster draw concave polygons that method slow lucas
comp.graphics	cview answers article rahul net bryanw rahul net bryan woodworth writes apr imag schaefer imag imag arno schaefer writes bryan this not quite correct remember vgalib package that comes linux sls will switch vga mode xwindows write gif viewer linux don that exists similar svga package and viewing gifs not nice vgalib amazing guess lost subdirs for correcting doesn sound appealing glad wasn major missed tommy frandsen vgalib you talking will standard vga modes tweaked modes and tseng super vga modes and viewing gif lousy small monitor dpg view linux had change constants dpg view sources make use modes vgalib sources designed for easy addition super vga support each mode array register values and program that dumps array declaration this kind describing current mode haven btw version vgalib kennu mits mdata linux free unix linus torvalds for read comp linux email you for information you can run tex gnu emacs and top nice posix environment
comp.graphics	use rayshade rayshade computers and input users and perhaps swap ideas post uuencoded gifs ray code interested trouble coming colors that metallic brass steel rgb values you machines check fineman rle files rle stein washington edu for dan
comp.graphics	fake virtual reality ridiculous example exploitation virtual reality clothing company recently opened vancouver can another chic clothes spot interesting selling virtual clothing mail you want dig phone and you can promotional lit
comp.graphics	video getting ready buy multimedia workstation and advice graphics card that will video and windows originally thinking targa that doesn work windows cards into craig forgive divine craig williamson airhead human craig williamson columbiasc ncr balki bartokomas craig toontown columbiasc ncr home perfect strangers
comp.graphics	windows screen grabber howdy find screen grabber program for windows writing documentation and helpful include sample screens into document mail don usualy follow this group lot grant grant totten programmer analyst trent university peterborough ontario gtotten trentu phone fax human brain enormous fish flat and slimy and gills can monty python
comp.graphics	rumours article news service uci edu rbarris orion oac uci edu robert barris writes unit displaying full screen movies compactvideo codec nice blockiness showing clips jaws and backdraft and high frame rate boot fps acorn replay running mhz arm processor arm slower arm this software standard rom bit colour resolution computer bit colour support real time dithering supposed couple dsps arm used for housekeeping not centris mhz stacks mhz arm box arm faster mhz arm clock arm mips flat depends surrounding system and whether you talking arm arm cache and essential run this kind speed slower memory stop things cos hopefully working for arm graduation mike don pay heed reps philips doesn beat pants eat this postscript michael williams part computer science tripos mjw phx cam university cambridge cymdeithas genedlaethol traddodiad troi teigrod mwythus ben waered
comp.graphics	dicta australian pattern recognition society call for papers dicta conference digital imaging computing techniques and applications location macquarie theatre macquarie university sydney date december dicta second biennial national conference australian pattern recognition society this event will provide opportunity for persons interest computer vision digital image processing analysis and aspects pattern recognition become informed contemporary developments area exchange ideas establish contacts and share details work invited speakers will provide specialised presentations prof gabor herman university pennsylvania medical imaging prof hodgson massey university zealand computer vision prof dominique juelin centre morphologie mathematique paris mathematical morphology prof john richards aust defence force academy canberra remote sensing phillip robertson csiro division information technology canberra interactive visualisation conference will concentrate not limited areas image processing computer vision and object recognition motion analysis morphology medical imaging fuzzy logic and neural networks image coding machine vision and robotics enhancement and restoration enhancement and restoration visualisation industrial applications software and hardware tools papers sought for presentation conference and publication conference proceedings submission for peer review consist extended abstract words doubled spaced text summarizing technical aspects paper and results that will quoted final papers limited pages text and illustrations camera ready form copies abstract dicta tony adriaansen csiro division wool technology box ryde nsw australia important dates abstract due june acceptance notified august final paper due october social program conference dinner will held thursday december social activities arranged situated beautiful harbour sydney and varied places interest opera house and harbour bridge two landmarks harbour cruises city tours blue mountains run daily can provide information request accommodation accommodation min walking distance ranging college style star hotel facilities information will supplied request conference fees sep sep aprs members aprs student members conference dinner dec advanced registration name organisation address phone fax email current member aprs not current member aprs send information accommodation enclose cheque for send form dicta tony adriaansen csiro division wool technology box ryde nsw australia cheques made payable dicta for information contact tony adriaansen athula ginigie email dicta uts edu aprs member iapp international association for pattern recognition inc affiliated member international federation for information processing
comp.graphics	fastest windows video article apr trentu ayounes trentu amro younes trent university peterborough canada writes ati graphics ultra pro eisa version admit received bad press that due faulty drivers had magazine impressed ati card recent reviews april issue rate ati graphics ultra pro eisa version editor choice noted that drivers had improved since tested isa version january cuyler
comp.graphics	weitek jgreen amber joe green writes weitek graphics chip you weitek address phone number information this chip interested this chip follow email bill egan cavalier graphics houston texas email cavalier blkbox
comp.graphics	jpeg image compression frequently asked questions archive name jpeg faq last modified april this faq article discusses jpeg image compression suggestions for additions and clarifications since version april versions image archiver and pmjpeg for this article includes sections jpeg use jpeg use jpeg and stick gif jpeg compress images good quality settings for jpeg can jpeg software canned software viewers etc source code this hoopla color quantization jpeg work lossless jpeg argument file formats recognize file format and arithmetic coding loss accumulate repeated compression decompression rules thumb for converting gif images jpeg sections basic info that jpeg user sections advanced info for curious this article posted weeks you can find latest version news answers archive rtfm mit edu ftp fetch pub usenet news answers jpeg faq you don ftp send mail mail server rtfm mit edu body send usenet news answers jpeg faq faq articles stored this archive for instructions use archive send mail address words and index quotes separate lines you don reply server misreading your return address add line such path myname mysite your correct mail address reply jpeg jpeg pronounced jay peg standardized image compression mechanism jpeg stands for joint photographic experts group original name committee that wrote standard jpeg designed for compressing full color gray scale digital images natural real world scenes not work realistic images such cartoons line drawings jpeg not handle black and white bit per pixel images handle motion picture compression standards for compressing types images worked committees named jbig and mpeg jpeg lossy meaning that image you decompression isn quite identical you originally put algorithm achieves compression exploiting limitations human eye notably fact that small color details aren perceived small details light and dark jpeg intended for compressing images that will looked humans you plan machine analyze your images small errors introduced jpeg problem for you even invisible eye property jpeg that degree lossiness can varied adjusting compression parameters this means that image maker can trade file size output image quality you can make extremely small files you don mind poor quality this for indexing image archives making thumbnail views icons etc etc conversely you aren happy output quality default compression setting you can jack quality you satisfied and accept lesser compression use jpeg two good reasons make your image files smaller and store bit per pixel color data bit per pixel data making image files smaller big win for transmitting files across networks and for archiving libraries images compress mbyte full color file kbytes makes big difference disk space and transmission time you comparing gif and jpeg size ratio details below your viewing software doesn support jpeg directly you convert jpeg format for viewing manipulating images even jpeg capable viewer takes longer decode and view jpeg image view image simpler format gif for instance jpeg essentially time space tradeoff you give time order store transmit image cheaply worth noting that network phone transmission involved time savings transferring shorter file can greater extra time decompress file you arithmetic reason jpeg will gradually replace gif standard usenet posting format that jpeg can store full color information bits pixel million colors fewer colors you bit display hardware this not advantage you couple years bit gif will obsolete black and white macpaint format today for reasons detailed section jpeg gif for exchanging images people widely varying color display hardware jpeg considerably gif for use usenet posting standard use jpeg and stick gif jpeg not displace gif for types images gif superior image quality file size things learn jpeg kinds images apply rule thumb jpeg superior gif for storing full color gray scale images realistic scenes that means scanned photographs and similar material jpeg superior even you don bit display hardware and lot superior you section for details gif significantly images distinct colors such cartoons and line drawings large areas pixels that exactly color compressed efficiently gif jpeg can squeeze files gif introducing visible defects this sort image gif form single color borders quite cheap gif files avoided jpeg files jpeg hard time sharp edges row pure black pixels adjacent row pure white pixels for example sharp edges tend come blurred you use high quality setting this sort thing not found scanned photographs shows fairly gif files borders overlaid text etc blurriness objectionable text that pixels high you gif lot small size overlaid text don jpeg computer drawn images ray traced scenes for instance fall scanned images and cartoons terms complexity complex and subtly rendered image likely that jpeg will for semi realistic artwork fantasy drawings and such plain black and white two level images never converted jpeg you gray levels jpeg for gray scale images noted that gif lossless for gray scale images levels jpeg not you existing library gif images you whether you convert jpeg you will lose image quality you section argues that jpeg image quality superior gif applies formats start full color original you start gif you irretrievably lost great deal information jpeg can make things worse disk space savings justify converting this decision you make for you convert gif library jpeg section for hints prepared leave images gif format since gifs will not convert jpeg compress images pretty darn sample file sizes for image handy full color image ship harbor files for comparison purposes rest created free jpeg software described section file size bytes comments ship ppm original file ppm format compression bits bytes per pixel bytes overhead ship ppm ppm file passed unix compress compress doesn accomplish lot you note text oriented compressors give similar results ship gif converted gif ppmquant ppmtogif savings result losing color info gif saves bits pixel not sec ship jpg cjpeg highest quality setting this indistinguishable bit original nonprofessional eyeballs ship jpg cjpeg default setting you mighty darn close distinguish this original even screen once ship jpg cjpeg this slight defects you for you jpeged original good image quality recent postings usenet pictures groups ship jpg cjpeg jpeg characteristic blockiness becomes apparent this setting djpeg blocksmooth helps plenty usenet postings that poorer image quality this ship jpg cjpeg optimize optimize cuts table overhead blocky perfectly satisfactory for preview indexing purposes note that this file tiny compression ratio original this case jpeg can make file that factor smaller gif comparable quality file bit good gif you full color display this typical ratio for real world scenes good quality settings for jpeg jpeg compressors you pick file size image quality tradeoff selecting quality setting widespread confusion meaning settings quality not mean information claimed quality scale purely arbitrary not percentage name game jpeg pick lowest quality setting smallest file size that decompresses into image indistinguishable original this setting will vary image another and observer another rules thumb default quality setting choice this setting lowest you can expecting defects typical image you defects for experimental purposes never will produce file two times large quality image perfect quality begin you objectionable degradation hand you higher quality setting avoid degradation second case apply time converting gifs jpeg default for compressing bit images for converting gifs section for info you want small file for preview indexing purposes and prepared tolerate large defects setting range amusing art note quality settings discussed this article apply free jpeg software described section and programs based jpeg implementations such image alchemy use completely quality scale programs don even provide numeric scale high medium low style choices can jpeg software programs described this section ftp you don use ftp faq article find sources you don direct access ftp read ftpmail servers article that article appears regularly news answers you can sending mail mail server rtfm mit edu send usenet news answers finding sources body anonymous ftp list faq helpful usenet news answers ftp list faq news answers archive note this list constantly you copy couple months latest jpeg faq news answers archive you for canned software viewers etc part this list system specific programs that run kind system you don you want for your machine check portable jpeg software described end list note that this list concentrates free and shareware programs that you can obtain internet commercial programs listed windows john bradley free version and excellent viewer for jpeg gif and image formats for ftp export lcs mit edu ftp cis upenn edu file called tar version number located contrib directory export pub directory upenn reduces images bits internally means not real good choice you bit display you bit color you shouldn use convert full color images jpeg color quantized fine tool for converting gif and bit images jpeg caution glitch versions and earlier check save normal size checkbox saving jpeg file file will blurry another good choice for windows john cristy free imagemagick package export lcs mit edu file contrib imagemagick tar this package handles image processing and conversion tasks imagemagick viewer handles bit displays correctly for colormapped displays slower color quantization basic free jpeg software large complex packages you want simple image viewer xloadimage xli xloadimage supports jpeg latest release xloadimage free and export lcs mit edu file contrib xloadimage tar xli variant version xloadimage fans somewhat faster and robust original current xli faster and robust current xloadimage respect jpeg files ijg decoder xloadimage hacked xloadimage release will fix this xli free and export lcs mit edu file contrib xli tar programs thing bit displays dos this covers plain dos for windows programs headings good choice eric praetzel free dvpeg views jpeg and gif files current version ftp sunee uwaterloo file pub jpeg viewers dvpeg zip this good basic viewer that works machines user interface not flashy functional another freeware jpeg gif tga viewer mohammad rezaei hiview current version simtel and mirror sites note below file msdos graphics zip hiview requires cpu and vcpi compatible memory manager qemm and max work windows and not hiview fastest viewer for images that bigger your screen for larger images scales image fit screen panning scrolling viewers you not prefer this approach denying that slows loading large images considerably note installation bit tricky read directions carefully shareware alternative colorview for dos this easier install two freeware alternatives user interface spiffier personally find harder use keystrokes inconsistent behavior faster dvpeg slower hiview hardware for images larger screen size dvpeg and colorview speed and faster hiview current version simtel and mirror sites note below file msdos graphics dcview zip requires vesa graphics driver you don vesadrv zip vesa tsr zip directory recent pcs built vesa driver don load vesa driver colorview complains that driver missing second shareware alternative fullview kicking net for don stable archive location for current version inferior viewers author tells that version fullview will shortly and will submitted simtel archives that time gif viewer compushow cshow supports jpeg latest revision cshow jpeg implementation isn good slow half speed viewers and image quality poor color displays bad nice good jpeg capability cshow shareware simtel and mirror sites note below file msdos gif cshw zip due remarkable variety graphics hardware viewers not work your machine you can work you use conversion programs convert jpeg gif view your favorite gif viewer you color hardware don use gif intermediate format find targa capable viewer vpic reputed thing color displays independent jpeg group free jpeg converters ftpable simtel and mirror sites note below file msdos graphics jpeg zip jpeg zip you and extended memory files dos compilations free source code described section will convert jpeg and gif targa and ppm formats handmade software offers free jpeg gif conversion tools gif jpg jpg gif slow and limited conversion and gif format you can bit color output jpeg major advantage tools that will read and write hsi proprietary jpeg format usenet standard jfif format since hsi format files widespread bbses this capability version tools free prior versions shareware simtel and mirror sites note below file msdos graphics gif jpg zip note not use hsi format for files posted internet since not readable platforms handmade software shareware image conversion and manipulation package image alchemy this will translate jpeg files jfif and hsi formats and image formats can display images demo version image alchemy version simtel and mirror sites note below file msdos graphics alch zip note simtel internet key archive site for related programs simtel full name wsmr simtel army mil simtel runs unix system weird directory names this document refers directory msdos graphics simtel that means msdos graphics you not physically milnet you expect slow ftp transfer rates simtel internet sites that maintain copies mirrors simtel archives ftp users mirror sites popular usa mirror site oak oakland edu simtel files pub msdos graphics you ftp capability you can retrieve files simtel mail informational postings comp archives msdos announce find you usa consult newsgroup learn your nearest simtel mirror microsoft windows windows programs capable displaying jpeg images windows viewers generally slower dos viewers hardware due windows system overhead note that you can run dos conversion programs described inside windows dos window newest entry winecj free and extremely fast version ftp rahul net file pub bryanw jpeg wecj zip requires windows and colors mode this frills viewer bad habit hogging machine completely decodes and image quality noticeably worse viewers fast you use for previewing jview freeware fairly fast good line and can write decompressed image windows bmp format can create jpeg files and doesn view gifs jview lacks features shareware viewers such brightness adjustment excellent basic viewer current version ftp cica indiana edu file pub win desktop jview zip mirrors this archive can found internet sites including wuarchive wustl edu winjpeg shareware displays jpeg gif targa tiff and bmp image files can write formats can used converter nifty features including color balance adjustment and slideshow current version simtel and mirror sites note file msdos windows winjp zip this slow compatible version you register you version roughly faster colorview another shareware entry this early and promising contender not updated time and this point real advantages winjpeg you want current version ftp cica indiana edu file pub win desktop cview zip understand that version will appearing once authors finished colorview for dos dvpeg dos heading works windows full screen mode not window files hobbes nmsu edu note check pub uploads for recent versions hobbes moderator not fast moving uploads into permanent directories pub graphics jpegv zip bit version free ijg conversion programs version pub graphics jpeg zip bit version for pub graphics imgarc zip image archiver image conversion viewing graphical interface strong conversion functions viewing bit weaker shareware pub graphics pmjpeg zip pmjpeg port winjpeg popular viewer for windows description windows section shareware pub graphics pmview zip pmview jpeg gif bmp viewer gif viewing fast jpeg viewing fast you huge amounts ram speed programs strong bit display support shareware macintosh mac jpeg programs rely apple jpeg implementation part quicktime system extension you quicktime installed use quicktime you cpu and you running system you running system you install bit quickdraw extension this built system you can quicktime ftp ftp apple file dts mac quicktime quicktime hqx this file contains quicktime ways respect jpeg marginally faster and considerably prone crash fed corrupt jpeg file applications compatibility problems mac users mind that quicktime jpeg format pict jpeg not usenet standard jfif jpeg format section for details you post images usenet make jfif format programs mentioned below can generate format choice jpegview free program for viewing images that jfif format pict jpeg format gif format can convert two jpeg formats current version big improvement prior versions sumex aim stanford edu file info mac app jpeg view hqx requires system and quicktime bit displays jpegview produces color image quality mac jpeg viewers jpegview can view large images memory mac viewers fact that can deal jpeg images pixels typical mac large image jpegview automatically scales fit screen presenting scroll bars viewers you can zoom desired portion people this behavior don jpegview user interface thought gifconverter shareware image viewer converter supports jfif and pict jpeg gif and image formats latest version sumex aim stanford edu file info mac art gif gif converter hqx requires system gifconverter not jpegview plain jpeg gif viewer extensive image manipulation and format conversion capabilities you find worth shareware fee you lot playing images newest version gifconverter can load and save jfif images quicktime your bet your machine run quicktime faster quicktime note gifconverter runs memory load large jpeg converting file gif jpeg convert viewing gif version jpeg convert mac version free ijg jpeg conversion utilities sumex aim stanford edu file info mac app jpeg convert hqx this will run mac file conversion not viewing you can use conjunction gif viewer previous versions this faq recommended imagery jpeg jpeg gif converter based version ijg code you this program you replace jpeg convert apple free program pictpixie can view images jfif quicktime jpeg and gif format and can convert formats you can pictpixie ftp apple file dts mac quicktime stuff pictpixie hqx requires quicktime pictpixie intended developer tool and not choice you fool quicktime drawbacks that requires lots memory produces relatively poor color image quality bit display and relatively unfriendly user interface worse pictpixie unsupported program meaning minor bugs that apple not intend fix version pictpixie called pictcompressor floating net you this you trash even buggier quicktime starter kit includes cleaned descendant pictpixie called picture compressor note that picture compressor not free and not distributed net storm technology picture decompress free jpeg viewer converter this program inferior programs ways will run system quicktime you forced use older systems bit quickdraw machines can use you can sumex aim stanford edu file info mac app picture decompress hqx you set file type downloaded image file jpeg picture decompress open your machine run bit quickdraw mac for instance gifconverter your choice for single program jpeg viewing you don want pay for gifconverter use jpeg convert and free gif viewer and commercial mac applications supporting jpeg not can deal usenet standard jfif format adobe photoshop version can read and write jfif format jpeg files use jpeg plug acquire menu you set file type downloaded jpeg file jpeg photoshop recognize amiga programs listed this section stored aminet archive amiga physik unizh mirror sites this archive and you use closest usa good choice wuarchive wustl edu mirrors amiga physik unizh hamlab excellent jpeg viewer converter general image manipulation tool cheap shareware and can read formats jpeg current version demo version amiga physik unizh and mirror sites file amiga gfx edit hamlab lha demo version will crop images larger fully functional rend shareware image renderer that can display jpeg ilbm and gif images program can used create animations even capturing frames fly rendering packages lightwave current version amiga physik unizh and mirror sites file amiga gfx rend lha note this directory supposedly for amigados programs program will run amigados viewtek free jpeg ilbm gif anim viewer current version amiga physik unizh and mirror sites file amiga gfx show viewtek lha you willing spend real money commercial packages that support jpeg two written thomas krehbiel author rend and viewtek cinemorph standalone image morphing package and imagefx impressive bit image capture conversion editing painting effects and prepress package that includes cinemorph distributed great valley products art department professional adpro asdg inc widely used commercial image manipulation software for amigas imagemaster black belt systems another regarded commercial graphics package jpeg support free ijg jpeg software compiled for amigas amiga physik unizh and mirror sites directory amiga gfx conv file amigajpegv lha programs convert jpeg ppm gif targa formats amiga world heavily infested quick and dirty jpeg programs based ancient beta test version free ijg jpeg software magazine that published disk month notifying authors augjpeg newamyjpeg vjpeg and not even heard opinion older ijg version march not worth disk space stored you such program trash and newer atari free ijg jpeg software compiled for atari etc atari archive umich edu file atari graphics jpeg bin zoo programs convert jpeg ppm gif targa formats not heard free shareware jpeg capable viewer for ataris surely pointers appreciated acorn archimedes changefsi supplied risc version can convert and view jpeg jfif format provision made convert images jpeg this cli double clicking recent versions since shareware program translator can handle jpeg image formats older versions can found archimedes bboards current version registering author john kortink nutterbrink enschede netherlands price dutch guilders pounds commercial product called jpeg jpeg read write functionality and direct jpeg viewing host image format conversion and processing options this expensive not necessarily programs contact software freepost cambridge tel portable software for almost system fits your situation you can obtain and compile free jpeg conversion software described you viewer program your display bits gif viewer will fine you display color capability find viewer that can read targa ppm bit image files numerous commercial jpeg offerings popping day recommend that you not spend money you find free shareware software vastly slow that case purchase hardware assisted product pointed questions whether product complies final jpeg standard and whether can handle jfif file format earliest commercial releases not and never will compatible files you for source code work free portable code for jpeg compression independent jpeg group lead package containing source code documentation and small test files places official archive site for this source code ftp net directory graphics jpeg current release jpegsrc tar this compressed tar file don forget retrieve binary mode you can retrieve this file ftp you and don cope tar format you prefer zip format you can find simtel and mirror sites note file msdos graphics jpegsrc zip this file will compuserve graphsupport forum pics library jpsrc zip you ftp access you can retrieve source your nearest comp sources misc archive version appeared issues volume you don retrieve comp sources misc postings faq article find sources referred top section free jpeg code conversion jpeg jfif format and image files gif pbmplus ppm pgm utah rle and truevision targa file formats core compression and decompression modules can easily reused programs such image viewers package highly portable tested machines ranging pcs crays released this software for noncommercial and commercial use companies use basis for jpeg related products not royalty for acknowledgement product literature readme file distribution for details hope make this software industrial quality that free offer warranty and accept liability independent jpeg group volunteer organization you contribute improving software you join this hoopla color quantization people don full color bit per pixel display hardware typical display hardware stores fewer bits per pixel can display fewer distinct colors time display full color image computer map image into set representative colors this process called color quantization this misnomer color selection term stuck standard usage color quantization lossy process turns that for images details color quantization algorithm impact final image quality errors introduced jpeg lowest jpeg quality settings since jpeg full color format converting color jpeg image for display bit hardware requires color quantization this true for color jpegs even you feed color gif into jpeg comes decompressor not colors thousands colors this happens jpeg lossiness affects each pixel differently two pixels that started identical colors will come slightly colors each original color gets smeared into group nearby colors quantization required display color jpeg colormapped display image source avoid quantization for gray scale output incidentally this effect meaningless talk number colors used jpeg image even you attempted count number distinct pixel values jpeg decoders give you results roundoff error differences occasionally posted images described color jpeg this tells that poster hasn read this faq and converted jpeg gif jpegs can classified color gray scale photographs number colors isn concept for jpeg hand gif image definition quantized fewer colors gif definite number colors palette and format doesn palette entries for purposes usenet picture distribution gif advantage that sender precomputes color quantization recipients don this disadvantage gif you stuck sender quantization sender quantized number colors you can display you quantize resulting poorer image quality you had quantized once full color image sender didn use high quality color quantization algorithm you luck for this reason jpeg offers promise significantly image quality for users machines don match sender display hardware jpeg full color image can quantized precisely match user display hardware you will advantage future improvements quantization algorithms lot active research this area purchase display hardware view jpeg images you gif you stuck forevermore worth mentioning that gif viewing programs include shoddy quantization routines you view color gif color ega display for example you getting worse image you this partly inevitable consequence two color quantizations create gif display due sloppiness jpeg conversion programs will forced use high quality quantizers order acceptable results and normal use will quantize directly number colors displayed jpeg likely provide results average gif program for low color resolution displays high resolution finally growing number people bit display hardware bit color displays true bit displays workstations and macintoshes etc for people gif obsolete cannot represent image full capabilities display jpeg images can drive displays effectively jpeg choice gif for representing images machine independent fashion jpeg work buzz words chrominance subsampling discrete cosine transforms coefficient quantization and huffman arithmetic entropy coding this article long not that for technical information comp compression faq this news answers archive rtfm mit edu files pub usenet news answers compression faq part you news answers archive top this article lossless jpeg great deal confusion this subject jpeg committee define lossless compression algorithm that guarantees final output bit for bit identical original input this lossless mode almost nothing common regular lossy jpeg algorithm and offers compression present implementations lossless jpeg exist and commercial free jpeg software not you lossless image rid deliberate information loss coefficient quantization step good deal information loss color subsampling step free jpeg code you can sample turn subsampling mind that commercial jpeg implementations cannot cope resulting file even quantization and subsampling turned regular jpeg algorithm not lossless subject roundoff errors calculations maximum error counts pixel highly that this perceived human eye concern you machine processing image this minimum loss setting regular jpeg produces files that perhaps half size uncompressed bit per pixel image true lossless jpeg roughly amount compression guarantees bit for bit accuracy you application requiring lossless storage images bits per pixel per color component you want into jbig bilevel image compression standard this performs jpeg lossless such images jpeg lossless superior jbig images bits per pixel jpeg public domain huffman back end jbig techniques heavily covered patents argument file formats strictly speaking jpeg refers family compression algorithms not refer specific image file format jpeg committee prevented defining file format turf wars international standards organizations since can exchange images agree common file format this leaves problem absence official standards number jpeg program writers thing and result programs aren compatible closest thing facto standard jpeg format work that coordinated people cube microsystems defined two jpeg based file formats jfif jpeg file interchange format low end format that transports pixels and not tiff jpeg aka tiff extension aldus tiff format tiff high end format that will you record you wanted image and lot tiff lot complex jfif and prove transportable vendors historically implemented slightly and incompatible subsets tiff not likely that adding jpeg mix will improve this situation formats developed input major vendors jpeg related products likely that future commercial products will adhere standards that usenet adopt jfif replacement for gif picture postings jfif simpler tiff and tiff spec recently officially adopted and unusably vague crucial details even tiff jpeg defined jfif format likely widely supported lowest common denominator tiff jpeg files never transportable case that people interested apple quicktime software for macintosh quicktime jfif compatible format wrapped inside mac specific pict structure conversion jfif and quicktime jpeg pretty straightforward and mac programs mac portion section you editor that handles binary files you can strip quicktime jpeg pict jfif hand section for details another case handmade software programs gif jpg jpg gif and image alchemy programs capable reading and writing jfif format default write proprietary format developed hsi this format not readable hsi programs and not used for usenet postings use switch jfif output this applies versions programs current releases emit jfif format default you careful not post hsi format files you want flamed people platforms recognize file format and you alleged jpeg file that your software won read likely hsi format proprietary jpeg based format you can you inspecting bytes file jfif standard file will start characters hex two variable bytes hex jfif you start not rest you raw jpeg file this decodable jfif software worth hsi files start hsi you luck you hsi software portions file plain jpeg data won decompress properly hsi programs macintosh pict file jpeg compressed will couple hundred bytes header jfif header scan for jfif strip and you read proprietary format not jpeg you lucky file consist header and raw jpeg data stream you can identify start jpeg data stream for stripping that uuencoded usenet postings characteristic jfif pattern begin line uuencoded hsi files will start begin line you learn check for you can save trouble downloading jfif files arithmetic coding jpeg spec defines two back end modules for final output compressed data huffman coding arithmetic coding allowed choice impact image quality arithmetic coding produces smaller compressed file typical images arithmetic coding produces file percent smaller huffman coding file size numbers previously cited for huffman coding variant arithmetic coding jpeg standard subject patents owned ibm and mitsubishi you cannot legally use arithmetic coding you obtain licenses companies fair use doctrine people implement and test algorithm storing images dubious short run recommend that people not worry arithmetic coding space savings isn great justify potential legal hassles arithmetic coding not used for images exchanged usenet small chance that legal situation change future stay tuned for details loss accumulate repeated compression decompression nice compressed image jpeg you decompress manipulate crop border and recompress image degradation you lost initially this not case general recompressing altered image loses information not lost time thing that you decompress image and recompress changing loss you identical jpeg file even this not true not current free jpeg software essentially problem accumulation roundoff error you repeatedly compress and decompress image will eventually degrade you can visible generation output takes such cycles visible change things list accumulation error can avoided limited not optimistic case that possibly guaranteed that compressing unmodified full color output djpeg original quality setting introduce loss even such simple cropping border roundoff error degradation you wondering pixel block boundaries move you cropped multiples pixels you safe that mighty limited capability bottom line that jpeg format for archival storage and transmission images you don want use intermediate format for sequences image manipulation steps use lossless format ppm rle tiff etc working image jpeg you ready file avoiding degradation you will save lot compression decompression time this rules thumb for converting gif images jpeg stated earlier you will lose amount image information you convert existing gif image jpeg you can obtain original full color data gif made make jpeg that you save space and gif work suggestions for getting maximum space savings minimum loss quality rule converting gif library each jpeg make you happy throwing gif that will give you chance conversion higher quality setting gifs left gifs explained section cartoon type gifs sixteen fewer colors don convert you find that jpeg file reasonable quality will larger gif check sizes experience date suggests that large high visual quality gifs candidates for conversion jpeg chew storage offer potential savings and convert jpeg degradation don waste your time converting gif kbytes don expect jpeg files converted gifs small created directly full color originals maintain image quality you converted files twice big straight jpeg files shoot for size gif file not suggested earlier comparisons people developed odd habit putting large constant color border gif image useless this free terms storage cost gif files not free jpeg files and sharp border boundary can create visible artifacts ghost edges favor and crop border jpeging you windows system manual and automatic cropping functions painless this cjpeg default setting for full color input for gif inputs settings avoid image degradation you apply smoothing suggested below higher setting not color gifs photographs complex artwork dithered fool your eye into colors that gif can store you enlarge image you will that adjacent pixels significantly colors normal size eye averages pixels together produce illusion intermediate color trouble dithering that jpeg high spatial frequency color noise and jpeg can compress noise resulting jpeg file larger and lower image quality you jpeging original full color image you had this you want smooth gif image compression smoothing averages together nearby pixels approximating color that you thought you and process getting rid rapid color that give jpeg trouble use smoothing will you avoid high factor reducing size compressed file obtaining output image you smoothing free jpeg software products based simple smoothing capability built smooth converting gifs values work for high quality gifs heavy handed dithering require larger smoothing factors you can regular fine scale patterns gif image even enlargement strong smoothing called for large smoothing factor will blur output image you don want you image processing wizard you can smoothing separate filtering program such pnmconvol pbmplus package cjpeg built smoother lot faster pnmconvol upshot this that cjpeg quality smooth good starting point for converting gifs you care image you want check results and settings for information jpeg general free jpeg software contact independent jpeg group jpeg info uunet net tom lane organizer independent jpeg group internet tgl cmu edu bitnet tgl cmu edu carnegie
comp.graphics	cview answers temp file thing creates obvious problem impossible use cview for viewing rom based picture collections and windows viewer that works properly cirrus based bit vga
comp.graphics	cview answers majority users not readding floppy picture roms and use cview fast and works can moron lacked foresight create temp file program path not current didrectory
comp.graphics	needed plotting package that for graphics cad package unix box that will file records count integer entity string entity string type string and produce networked graph nodes represented boxes circles and vertices represented lines and width line determined line type for each type vertice boxes identified entity name number entities and vertices nice tool minimized line cross overs and good job layout looked faq for comp graphics and gnuplot success ideas appreciated glen fullmer glen fullmer pts mot for successful technology reality precedence public relations for nature cannot fooled richard feynman
comp.graphics	video organization world information your fingertips keywords article toontown columbiasc ncr craig toontown columbiasc ncr craig williamson writes getting ready buy multimedia workstation and advice graphics card that will video and windows originally thinking targa that doesn work windows cards into craig forgive divine craig williamson airhead human craig williamson columbiasc ncr balki bartokomas craig toontown columbiasc ncr home perfect strangers craig you targa run windows time work and works fine you driver josh west email mscrap halcyon
comp.graphics	and fli specs can point can find specs for and fli files found arthur qedbbs arthur choung qed arthur qed bbs
comp.graphics	windows graphics viewer check image pals lead special intro price basic image processing tools for major formats screen grabbing and your image files calalogged into thumbnail database great don
comp.graphics	windows screen grabber summary people responded request for windows screen grabber proves that net wonderful thing summary two choices screen grabber packages corel draw couple simtel and cica use built printscreen and alt printscreen functionality paste screen window clipboard paste clipboard your application cool for info grant windows newbie unix and bag grant totten programmer analyst trent university peterborough ontario gtotten trentu phone fax woman place wrong james thurber
comp.graphics	tiff appsoft draw gif conversion friends bitching that map made appsoft draw can displayed checked true version readers trouble preview messes eps fine tiff and imageviewer behaves flying colors doesn convert worth can convert this drw appsoft reasonable gif access sun and nextstep systems good reliable conversion programs helpful email post responses email that used alphachannel god choke steve jobs archie archie for convert plain format imageviiewer turns nothing recognizable terrychay small editorial tychay apr undernet tiff tychay apr undernet tiff and not gzip wrong this format
comp.graphics	bitmap interpolation yesterday wrote program bilinear interpolation ala numerical recipes pbmplus libraries pretty happy results for coded linear interpolation schemes ahead write pointers dave disser caen user services wealth wasted disser engin umich edu chrysler center ann arbor
comp.graphics	rom indexes file and contents listings for knowledge media resource library graphics knowledge media resource library audio for anonymous ftp cdrom
comp.graphics	fastest windows video article apr exu ericsson ebuhcb ebu ericsson writes article apr trentu ayounes trentu amro younes trent university peterborough canada writes ati graphics ultra pro eisa version admit received bad press that due faulty drivers had magazine impressed ati card recent reviews april issue rate ati graphics ultra pro eisa version editor choice noted that drivers had improved since tested isa version january cuyler yeah gave editor choice run graphics accelerators tested previous issue bought and returned mine conclusion can come that magazine wildly ways determining worthiness video card david farley university chicago library east street jrl dgf midway uchicago edu chicago illinois
comp.graphics	jpeg mpeg encod decode involve distant learning project and jpeg and mpeg encode decode source and object code this not for profit project that once completed hope release educational and institutional learning centers this project requires that true photographic images plain telephone lines addition real good gui lib objects and types menu classes that can use end transaction server and terminal end hear recently posted rfd announcing otg open telematic group that will concern developement such application and that incorporate naplps jpeg mpeg voice ivr fax sprites animation fli flc etc present dos and unix environment worked and hope that can generate interest major platform can accomodated plaform independent api toolkit sdk mind that time that such project and group form deal issues want setup repository files access such simte and start putting together otg faq you information that your opinion interest otg community and you included faq send email address below advance box atlanta zyxel epimntl world std pimentel gisatl fidonet org edimg willard atl pimentel gatech vdbsan willard edimg emory uumind willard edimg willard house bbs atlanta
comp.graphics	scanned grey color equations back had equations used for changing iltered grey scale images into true color image this theory used color scanners not for obv ious solution buy color scanner equat ions becasue starting write software will automate conversion process repost equations unknowns for
comp.graphics	pov tga and speedstar finally bit viewer for povray generated tga files written sean malloy and kindly copy wrote for purpose view tga files speedstar works speedstar and cannot send copies since not program author release version future time program developed not comment this pleases helpful regards jim nobles
comp.graphics	algorithm for reading and displaying bitmap files making customized paint program dos and algorithm for reading bitmap files gif pcx bmp such algorithm copying book for reading pcx format doesn work will algorithm for format that can created windows paint toni
comp.graphics	images earth for graphic images earth shot space preferably bit color color gif will ftp site can find greatly you pass information send email ken huisman ken ualberta
comp.graphics	sphere points article qkgbuinns shelley washington edu bolson carson washington edu edward bolson writes points coplanar find sphere that center and radius exactly fitting points finding circumcenter tetrahedron discussed page contouring guide analysis and display spatial data dave watson pergamon press isbn each pair tetrahedral vertices define plane perpendicular bisector line that pair express each plane form and solve set simultaneous equations planes that vertex common vertices used solution circumcenter dave watson internet watson maths uwa edu department mathematics university western australia tel nedlands australia fax
comp.graphics	paintprogram wanted excuse sheer newbieness this post for decent paintprogram will save file formats bmp pcx etc etc ftp freeware shareware check programs for check commercial market advance for direction you can give daemon
comp.graphics	vesa graphics standard ibm world standard vesa become for svga graphics lots graphics board companies graphics chips manufacturers adhering vesa standard and effect will vesa local bus this
comp.graphics	dmorf direct ftp site can find dos based morphing package called dmorf zip had downloaded this file last week dos crashed hard drive and lost can find site morphing packages for dos freeware shareware advance barry egerter obelix gaul csd uwo author wgt graphics toolkit for vga version turbo borland joystick mouse graphics primitives bgi power gif pcx data storage sprites multiway scrolling games bitmap warping resizing support fli egerter obelix gaul csd uwo
comp.graphics	sphere points plan post summary responses this working code will include intersection planes method implementation based short article graphics gems doesn work misinterpreting had avoided simultaneous solution plane equations favor dot and cross products case matrix determinant computed implicitly solution linear equations planes taking midpoint line and setting normal normalized vector plugged into formula graphics gems resulting center point occasionally equidistant test points for tests matrix vector math rusty verify formula use simultaneous equation solution will require bringing another routine don easy find another method find center circle defined sets points and intersecting normals this define circle center small numerical imprecisions make lines not intersect supposedly planes intersect unique point not parallel answered bolson university washington cardiovascular research bolson washington edu preferred bolson max bitnet bolson milton washington edu you
comp.graphics	sphere points another method find center circle defined sets points and intersecting normals this define circle center small numerical imprecisions make lines not intersect supposedly planes intersect unique point not parallel thought this don you project lines plane formed lines intersection calculation plane you guaranteed unique solution parallel won happen this case and use parametric distance lines circle centres determine exact point interest this bypasses messy error propogation required calculation hope haven put foot steve steven collins email steve crl hitachi visiting computer graphics researcher phone hitachi central research lab tokyo fax
comp.graphics	rumours article apr rchland ibm ricardo rchland vnet ibm ricardo hernandez muchado writes article apr mercury unt edu sean mcmains mcmains unt edu writes ricardo animation playback lawrence referring earlier post plain quicktime compact video codec digitized video apple early commercials precise running centris fps nicely bit color depth expect that algorithm risc processor approach full screen full motion animation you implied processor will taxed highly dynamic material sean don want into mini war bit skeptic performance you claiming centris you flames reserve for chicago last consumer electronics show and apple had booth walked and showing real time video capture radious supermac card digitize and make spot quicktime movies quicktime that fact current version december digitized guy talking played back quite nicely and real time guy expanded window resized and frame rate decreased notice that wasn fps fps anymore dropped fps increased bit and dropped fps asked mac quadra don model and telling guys that quicktime play back speed even lcii spoiled claim since quadra mac bit trouble and this wasn even hardisk this memory test movie created resolution wasn scaled scaling cpu intensive operation original quicktime current version optimizations for ratios even prepared that performance isn good playing back actual movie haven numerical measurements for scaled playback lawrence oliveiro fone computer services dept fax university waikato electric mail ldo waikato hamilton zealand gmt
comp.graphics	chaos editions idea internation directory electronic arts borrowed version this book friend holy moley wealth contacts hundred pages information electronic artists and organizations globe email addresses minute database this information minitel book based france internet minitel gates book printed french and english you your organization listed idea send your information annick bureaud idea rue falguiere paris france free listed not widely distributed book costs not affiliated impressed collection organizations and artists highly encourage involved electronic media video music graphics animation etc send your entry and encourage make database internet stastny otis project end process sound news and arts ftp sunsite unc edu pub multimedia pictures otis omaha projects otis email cwis unomaha edu sunsite unc edu
comp.graphics	images earth apr kakwa ucs ualberta ken ualberta huisman kenneth writes for graphic images earth shot space preferably bit color color gif will ftp site can find greatly you pass information ftp ing pub info jpl nasa gov simple dir structure and ames arc nasa gov pub space gif and pub space jpeg bits gifs and jpegs great piccy gif files semi huge gif files watch gif dead ahead good luck good software found jurriaan jhwitten ruu jhwitten ruu jurriaan wittenberg department computerscience utrecht netherlands
comp.graphics	rumours article news service uci edu rbarris orion oac uci edu robert barris writes not centris mhz stacks mhz arm box arm faster faster assuming arm efficient mips for integer calculations compact video digital video codec easy task for software motion pictures lot compact video predates frames sec decstation that machine mhz mips burkhard neidecker lutz distributed multimedia group cec karlsruhe eerp portfolio manager software motion pictures berkom project multimedia base technology digital equipment corporation neidecker nestvx enet dec
comp.graphics	sphere points spworley netcom steve worley writes bolson carson washington edu edward bolson writes boy this will embarassing trivial faq points coplanar find sphere that center and radius exactly fitting points for circle points not immediately straightforward checked geometry books graphics gems and farin loss mercy and provide solution not bad question don refs that list this algorithm thinking bit shouldn hard points and find plane define circle that lie you you this algorithm find center this circle line passing this center perpendicular plane points passes center sphere repeat unused point and two original points this you two lines that pass sphere origin interection center sphere radius easy compute distance center original points leave math you this workable algorithm good had bad feeling this problem special case solution that worried coplanar points shape square unique sphere that surface similarly colinear point finite sized sphere that surface algorithms geometrical designed algebraically design meet problems neatly determining plane points colinear algorithm afil return infinite intersecting two lines possibilities line points planar circle lines parallel sphere radius this last case can achieved colinier points and point taking point and pairs parallel lines will produced can achieved points coplanar not circle that algorithm fails points coplanar algorithm fails points coplanar points colinear coplanar testing point coplanar plane points found trivial alternate method pairs points plane formed perpendicular bisector each line segment pair contains center sphere pairs will form planes intersecting point this easier implement steve spworley netcom
comp.graphics	images earth pub space directory ames arc nasa gov number earth images you hunt subdirectories things tend filed mission apollo image subject rick
comp.graphics	cview answers renew blade stack urc tue rene walter writes kind soul mailed this reply for bugs cview since isn position post this asked post for leave name comes cview quite number bugs you mention perhaps stupid question will cview run and can gif viewer for linux windows
comp.graphics	cview answers apr whiting mcs sean whiting mcs sean gum writes stupid question will cview run and can gif viewer for linux windows boy hell you view gifs graphics linux windows love linux easy learn you want text use linux you want text and graphics use linux windows simple painless required windows you want graphics this includes fancy word processors doc image viewers etc
comp.graphics	cview answers qlobb tuegate tue renew blade stack urc tue rene walter writes info dangers reading floppy disks omitted unrevcoverable careful incredibly poor programming for program this hand choosing files open files menu cview insists disk reads time moves lighter square incredibly annoying once gets directory info and effort sort directory listing fairness people you personally read images floppy drives haven jpegs realize agonizingly slow gif files nevertheless important bug that squashed pointing that overlooked mind that will affect targeted users cview
comp.graphics	cview answers renew blade stack urc tue rene walter writes places temp files places current directory beg differ this point batch file use launch cview dir cview resides and invokes time crash cview byte temp file found root dir drive cview cyberspace buddha you for knowledge you wixer bga not pay attention you wixer cactus org chair hillary god peace
comp.graphics	graphics code package for dos code package data and turn into wireframe surface hidden lines removed dos machine and code can ansi ansi fortran basic data forms rectangular grid post your replies net that benefit imho this general interest question you
comp.graphics	vesa speedstar posting john cormack wanted you that slight difference speedstar and speedstar stefan
comp.graphics	converting images laserjet iii good standard application utility convert tif img tga files into laserjet iii format converting hpgl plotter files email response this correct group advance michael michael collier programmer computer unit email collier city city university tel london fax
comp.graphics	comp graphics programmer netters don this this kind thing cfv since don tha ability create news group want start discussion enjoy reading find difficult sort interested screen drivers graphics cards graphics programming and graphics programs discused comp graphics programmer news group you arff for not religous confessor mystery higher values birth mankind last builds indisputible and disregarded seldom you hear beeing prized seldom you hear man prizeing sees per lagerkvist fist free translation swedish andreas arff andreasa dhhalden
comp.graphics	graphics code package for dos tamvm tamu edu wrote code package data and turn into wireframe surface hidden lines removed dos machine and code can ansi ansi fortran basic data forms rectangular grid post your replies net that benefit imho this general interest question you
comp.graphics	surface intersections problem intersections two surfaces easy understand algorithm for that even source marco seirio real life marse caligula
comp.graphics	wanted atomic energy res establishment techreport for paper marlow and powell fortran subroutine for plotting part conic that inside triangle rep atomic energy res establishment harwell england related including cases max max froumentin laboratoire informatique never fondamentale lille tigran petrossian france
comp.graphics	bit graphics cards for eisa vesa local bus graphic cards that support resolution matrox expensive cards that support that resoultion striaght isa elsa winner eisa metheus premier isa servers for unix that support bits happens sgcs xserver that cards email info sgcs for details thomas das reh springt hoch mail roell sgcs das reh springt weit include sys pizza soll tun hat zeit
comp.graphics	viewer for files subject viewer for files for dominik
comp.graphics	radiosity radiosity sources wanted read comp graphics group never found radiosity interested glad hear for source code for radiosity method read common literature foley examples understand radiosity works common languages pascal prefered hope you will peter
comp.graphics	borland turbo libraries for graphics card recently hold card and programming libraries that will access high resolution modes borland turbo andy
comp.graphics	radiosity article uni jena hahm fossi hab weimar peter hahm writes radiosity sources wanted read comp graphics group never found radiosity interested glad hear for source code for radiosity method read common literature foley examples understand radiosity works common languages pascal prefered hope you will peter peter radiosity package ahead problem miles sail working radiosity package written make public domain announce minute finished that good news bad news another months finish meantime you file radiosity code tar located compute ncsu edu locations archie nearest hope that stephan stephan amann sig computer graphics university berne switzerland amann iam unibe tel fax projects radiosity raytracing computer graphics
comp.graphics	needed plotting package that article full apr dolphin pts mot full pts mot glen fullmer writes for graphics cad package unix box that will file records count integer entity string entity string type string and produce networked graph nodes represented boxes circles and vertices represented lines and width line determined line type for each type vertice boxes identified entity name number entities and vertices nice tool minimized line cross overs and good job layout looked faq for comp graphics and gnuplot success ideas appreciated glen fullmer glen fullmer pts mot roger grywalski response network visualization comp graphics visualization things exactly this chris murphy chris alta columbus
comp.graphics	rumours filled existence assumed rashly that number reserved for enhancements motorola line meted another company guess that assume computer industry will operate logical manner article apr rchland ibm ricardo hernandez muchado ricardo rchland vnet ibm writes sean don want into mini war bit skeptic performance you claiming centris you flames reserve for chicago last consumer electronics show and apple had booth walked and showing real time video capture radious supermac card digitize and make spot quicktime movies quicktime version quicktime stated current version software older version and horizon not distant future digitized guy talking played back quite nicely and real time guy expanded window resized and frame rate decreased notice that wasn fps fps anymore dropped fps increased bit and dropped fps quicktime job playing back movies size playing back resized movies apparently process expanding each frame image and dithering resultant bitmap bit depth pretty processor intensive optimizers that work pretty for showing movies double size you drop size increase size performance suffers dramatically asked mac quadra don model and telling guys that quicktime play back speed even lcii lied quicktime cpu dependent confused fact that locked internal timecode and will play amount time machine will drop frames order sound and video synced centris and quadras similar cpus and will boast similar performance quadras will bit faster due marginally faster clock speeds and somewhat architecture spoiled claim since quadra mac bit trouble and this wasn even hardisk this memory that you newer version quicktime hardware assisted centris another software product running animation supposedly macromind accelerator expect that version quicktime software you codecs video twice size and frame rate version handle centris plain vanilla exception nice speakers that playing sound and software movie player player apple includes software don misunderstand want clarify this problem surprises that quicktime things can sean mcmains check gopher phone university north texas bands info server fax box seanmac acs unt edu mail denton mcmains unt edu
comp.graphics	images earth kod hawnews watson ibm ricky watson ibm rick turner writes pub space directory ames arc nasa gov number earth images you hunt subdirectories things tend filed mission apollo image subject for you don bit colour amiga iff cloudless earth scanned mapped sphere mail and send you louis hanging your words living your breath feeling your skin will your room
comp.graphics	removing distortion bitmapped drawings you scanned image line drawing this case boat drawing you set reference points true positions you digitize drawing manually this case yaron danon excellent digitize program that you use program converts cursor positions and saves values you click mouse digitizing you notice that reference point values that come digitizing process differ small significant ways true values this understandable scanned drawing reproduction original and successive sources distortion such differential expansion and contraction paper errors introduced printing process scanner errors and you errors not uniform entire drawing global adjustments such stretching contracting uniformly rotating drawing not satisfactory question kind soul algorithm for removing such distortion sets points reference true values distortedreference points errors distorteddata points unknown errors function reference and distorted apply distorteddata remove errors suspect problem solved treating distorted reference points resulting projection bumpy surface solving for surface and flattening remove errors data points kind and informed soul ideas pointers treatments similar problems earl
comp.graphics	grasp save each frame grasp animation gif jpg iff picture formats animations that transfer amiga hope that can cheers haavard nesse trondheim college engineering trondheim norway
comp.graphics	comp graphics programmer article andreasa dhhalden andreasa dhhalden andreas arff writes netters don this this kind thing cfv since don tha ability create news group want start discussion enjoy reading find difficult sort interested screen drivers graphics cards graphics programming and graphics programs discused comp graphics programmer news group you this sounds wonderful spend time this don power for example comp graphics architecture this comp graphics algorithms comp graphics algorithms comp graphics algorithms misc comp graphics hardware comp graphics misc comp graphics software apps that almost overkill this make lot happier comp graphics programmer comp graphics hardware comp graphics apps comp graphics misc nice specialized groups devote morphing raytracing image processing interactive graphics toolkits languages object systems etc posted relevant group mailing list organized that reads news don subject headings disparate system specific stuff comp sys comp programmer programming modex programming information fast sprites hardware technical stuff speed weitek drivers for speedstar applications oriented stuff vistapro good dstudio image processing program for amiga programming oriented stuff fast polygon routine needed good morphing alogirhtm wanted depth sort for triangles library power cfd and cfv this stuff this newsgroup brian
comp.graphics	cview answers bryanw rahul net bryan woodworth writes apr whiting mcs sean whiting mcs sean gum writes stupid question will cview run and can gif viewer for linux windows boy hell you view gifs graphics linux windows love linux easy learn you want text use linux you want text and graphics use linux windows simple painless required windows you want graphics this includes fancy word processors doc image viewers etc ummm beg differ kind soul program called dpg view that will exactly want view gif images linux windows and support biggest complaint painfully slow takes minute display image use cshow dos takes split second idea slow linux docs dpg view
comp.graphics	graphics code package for dos article apr ugle unit razor swix nvg unit runar jordahl writes tamvm tamu edu wrote code package data and turn into wireframe surface hidden lines removed dos machine and code can ansi ansi fortran basic data forms rectangular grid general interest question you afraid your reply didn you reply
comp.graphics	postscript drawing prog article ecnn mentor purdue edu nish chem purdue edu nishantha writes drawing utility that can used manipulate postscript files specifically interested drawing lines boxes and sort postscript contour plots xfig and impressed features use since cannot use postscript files input for programme utility that converts postscript xfig format greatly appreciated nishantha you optimistic postscript big language and fig format can not interpreter arbitrary code program manipulate postscript files islanddraw for use xfig and include postscript files converted epsi format small erasing letters adding text and reinhard
comp.graphics	siggraph conference understanding images nyc acm siggraph understanding images subject pace university siggraph conference understanding images purpose this conference bring together breadth disciplines including physical biological and computational sciences technology art psychology philosophy and education order define and discuss issues essential image understanding computer graphics context featured topics include psychology perception image analysis design text sound philosophy date friday saturday time place pace downtown theater pace plaza spruce street park row gold street fees pre registration prior members members students proof status required registration site attendees registration fee includes brakfast breaks lunch send registration information fees francis marchese computer science department nyc acm siggraph conference pace university pace plaza room york voice fax email marchesf pacevm bitnet registration information name title company street address city state zip day phone evening phone fax phone email detailed description artists designers scientists engineers and educators share problem moving information mind another traditionally used pictures words demonstrations music and dance communicate imagery expressing complex notions such god and infinity seemingly defined concept such flower can present challenges exceed technical skills explosive use computers visualization and expression tools compounded this problem hypermedia multimedia and virtual reality systems vast amounts information confront observer participant wading multitude simultaneous images and sounds possibly unfamiliar representions confounded user asks mean since image construction transmission reception decipherment and ultimate understanding complex tasks strongly influenced physiology education and culture and since electronic media radically amplify each processing step electronic communicators determine fundamental paradigms for composing imagery for understanding purpose this conference bring together breadth disciplines including not limited physical biological and computational sciences technology art psychology philosophy and education order define and discuss issues essential image understanding computer graphics context featured speakers include psychology perception marc university ghent beverly jones university oregon barbara tversky standfor university michael shiffer mit tom hubbard ohio state university image analysis ravishankar rao ibm watson research center nalini bhusan smith college xiaopin university illinois narenda ahuja university illinois les sztander university toledo design mark bajuk university illinois alyce kaprow mit text xia lin pace university john loustau hunter college jong ding wang hunter college judson rosebush judson rosebush sound matthew witten university texas robert wyatt center for high performance computing robert williams pace university rory stuart nynex philosophy michael heim education foundation dpma
comp.graphics	fake virtual reality mike peredo mindlink mike peredo writes ridiculous example exploitation virtual reality clothing company recently opened vancouver can another chic clothes spot interesting selling virtual clothing mail you want dig phone and you can promotional lit understand couple raves billing virtual reality parties hear project gif images walls run animations newtek toaster adopt term virtual reality for immersive stuff virtually virtual reality etc samuel pratice safe signature prevent dangerous signature virii guildenstern names shouted dawn message summons moment beginning missed
comp.graphics	removing distortion bitmapped drawings article apr sctc boebert sctc earl boebert writes you scanned image line drawing this case boat drawing you set reference points true positions you digitize drawing manually this case yaron danon excellent digitize program that you use program converts cursor positions and saves values you click mouse digitizing you notice that reference point values that come digitizing process differ small significant ways true values this understandable scanned drawing reproduction original and successive sources distortion such differential expansion and contraction paper errors introduced printing process scanner errors and you errors not uniform entire drawing global adjustments such stretching contracting uniformly rotating drawing not satisfactory question kind soul algorithm for removing such distortion sets points reference true values distortedreference points errors distorteddata points unknown errors function reference and distorted apply distorteddata remove errors suspect problem solved treating distorted reference points resulting projection bumpy surface solving for surface and flattening remove errors data points helps idea source distortion reasonable model class distortion below short description process use you questions feel free poke mail assume locally smooth distortion compute delaunay triangulation your points this defines set neighbors for each point your data not naturally convex you long edges convex hull deleting edges two goals move distorteddata reference length measured current close digitizedlength measured digitized for point compute displacement based and for example for points for you reference you can move alpha reference current this will slowly move distortedreference reference for points examine current length each edge for each edge compute displacement make that edge correct length correct digitizedlength vector sum edge displacements and move point alpha sumofedgedisplacements this will triangulated mesh consistent your digitized mesh iterate you happy for example point moves alpha and alpha determined experimentation you reference you absolutely insist final points exactly matching references you want balance error matching reference length edges warning couple geometric invariants observed essentially you can convex hull change and you can triangles fold neighboring triangles can handled special case checks motion individual points periodically triangulating points current positions calculating digitizedlength original positions this triangulation time prohibitive once motivated and change code that working production mode for years back and triangulate iteration you compute power you you point interact point read linear solutions body problem lots papers last years siggraph proceedings springs constraints and energy calculations relevant method described detail inproceedings sloan author sloan kenneth and david meyers and christine curcio title reconstruction and display retina booktitle proceedings graphics interface vision interface address vancouver canada pages month year techreport curcio author christine curcio and kenneth sloan and david meyers title computer methods for sampling reconstruction display and analysis retinal mounts number institution department computer science university washington address seattle month december year article curcio author christine curcio and kenneth sloan and david meyers title computer methods for sampling reconstruction display and analysis retinal mounts journal vision research volume number pages year kenneth sloan computer and information sciences sloan cis uab edu university alabama birmingham campbell hall uab station fax birmingham
comp.graphics	outlining spline surface year ago started work problem that appeared simple and turned quite difficult wondering net this problem and hopefully published solutions problem draw outline surface defined two roughly parallel cubic splines for inputs problem essentially starts two sets points each set points edge object treat two dimensional extant edges exists dimensional space draw object fit cubic spline points each spline effectively computed sequence line segments approximating curve each spline equal number segments assume that nth segment each spline roughly not exactly distance each spline reasonable measure each segment each spline and match nth segment opposing spline use pair segments form two triangles will filled color surface depth sort triangles each triangle sorted order project pixmap draw and color triangle edge triangle that edge surface and draw line that edge colored special edge color edge coloring step that heart problem idea effectively outline edge surface net result generally lots breaks and gaps edge surface reasons for this fairly complicated involve rasterization problems and problems resulting projecting splines this problem sounds familiar knowing work this area
comp.graphics	flat globe algorithm for flattening globe parametric surface that definied parametrically that sheet paper and knife and calculate cut paper can fold globe object marco seirio real life marse caligula
comp.graphics	images earth article apr ruu clldomps ruu louis van dompselaar writes kod hawnews watson ibm ricky watson ibm rick turner writes pub space directory ames arc nasa gov number earth images you hunt subdirectories things tend filed mission apollo image subject for you don bit colour amiga iff cloudless earth scanned mapped sphere mail and send you beware such copyrighted image and company that generated protect that copyright that image hundreds man hours build source satellite images that competing images will
comp.graphics	newsgroup split proposed newsgroup split personally not favor this learn awful lot aspects graphics reading this group code hardware algorithms making groups this wate and will result posts week per group kind convenience big forum for discussing aspects graphics feel this curious daemon
comp.graphics	surface intersections marse lina marco seirio writes problem intersections two surfaces easy understand algorithm for that even source marco seirio real life marse caligula you severe problem news headers ftp purdue edu pub vanecek and pull proxima tar and proxima tres spif lance norskog thinman netcom data not information not knowledge not wisdom
comp.graphics	page flipping vga mode you write second bank page memory vga colour mode perform page flipping animation and buffering screen map mask registers this not perform required task note work standard vga not necessarily svga card advance andrew
comp.graphics	imagine netters finally received information imagine for presently shipping version software and will release version quarter upgrade purchase imagine costs you upgrading another eligible call for info modeler shipping handling requires megs math coprocessor and dos and microsoft mouse and svga card for your replies product received contrasting replies once scrounge money together will plunge info for impulse you want find sheet impulse inc xerxes avenue north minneapolis for your replies scott scott snowiss sasst pitt edu turn jack jack
comp.graphics	pcx freenet carleton book code that will teach read and write pcx dbf and gif files access extra ram paradise video board can paging higher vga modes line good book answer question that that good graphics file formats kay and levine isbn supercharged bitmapped graphics rimmer isbn programmer guide ega and vga cards ferraro isbn chapter paradise svga dave deluxe
comp.graphics	vga passthrough cables phone number place can vga passthrough want hook vga card xga card whcih you can can cable that connects type cable that you connect your vga card video blaster brad
comp.graphics	detecting double points bezier curves for information detecting and calculating double point and cusp bezier curve algorithm literature reference mail this appreciated ferdinand
comp.graphics	computer graphics vcr getting image computer monitor videotape harder standard vga and ega outputs ntsc format used televisions equipment that will conversion hard your hands and costs quite bit you access amiga computer that ntsc output you can transfer types graphic files modem and tape ntsc output this frame frame and lead unbelievably scratchy animation you had good amiga animation program your local public access cable station equipment that you can use
comp.graphics	newsgroup split article quvdoinn srvr engin umich edu tdawson engin umich edu chris herringshaw writes proposed newsgroup split personally not favor this learn awful lot aspects graphics reading this group code hardware algorithms making groups this wate and will result posts week per group kind convenience big forum for discussing aspects graphics feel this curious daemon agree you raist owner colors bit palette love low fat sig don mail don valid address can send mail
comp.graphics	ellipse touched problem posted last week guess question not clear describe detail offset ellipse locus center circle rolls ellipse words distance ellipse and offset this problem comes geometric measurement probe used tip probe ball and computer outputs positions ball center offset ellipse ellipse answer ironically dmis american indutrial standard ellipse almost software implemented base dmis wrong software sold internationaly imagine people will suffer this bug qualified parts ellipse will discarded and importantly defective parts ellipse will used employed consultant company los angeles last year specially solve this problem spent two months analysis this problem and six months programming solution nonlinear not ideal can reconstruct ellipse entire half offset difficult find original ellipse quarter segment offset method used not analytical wondering didn touch base and make things complicated give hint you argue this not problem you not people involved problem sphere poits not ellipse and not offset post and share interests emails netters summary answers yeh usc
comp.graphics	newsgroup split article quvdoinn srvr engin umich edu tdawson engin umich edu chris herringshaw writes proposed newsgroup split personally not favor this learn awful lot aspects graphics reading this group code hardware algorithms making groups this wate and will result posts week per group kind convenience big forum for discussing aspects graphics feel this curious daemon agree you daemon yeh usc
comp.graphics	wayne rigby clog news group this message wayne rigby info you requested for reason can not mail you contact send email address real programmer can function caffeine zen art internet john muller muller diego llnl gov muller sisal llnl gov jmuller libserv sunysb edu you not drunk you grab grass grass falling earth stupid comedian
comp.graphics	cview answers mik uky edu bryan williams writes majority users not readding floppy picture roms and use cview fast and works can moron lacked foresight create temp file program path not current didrectory flexible create temp files check for temp tmp environment variable and create files drive and directory pointedto variable this pretty standard for dos windows and applications opinion and bearing person organization including employer rknight salestech sales technologies inc
comp.graphics	splitting trimming region mesh problem hope gurus can solve background problem rectangular mesh domain mesh mapping bezier patch into area this domain inside trimming loop had rendered trimming loop set bezier curve segments for sake notation mesh made cells problem this trimming area split into individual smaller cells bounded trimming curve segments cell wholly inside area output trivially rejected body thiss can algo for this appreciated ani irritated human stay cool divine
comp.graphics	detecting double points bezier curves article oeinck waterland wlink ferdinan oeinck waterland wlink ferdinand oeinck writes for information detecting and calculating double point and cusp bezier curve algorithm literature reference mail this appreciated article issues transactions graphics maureen stone authors not specific don reference article general this giving decide whether cubic bezier curve contains cusps intersection points wierdness treatment siggraph notes for called math for siggraph that memory jbulf kpc
comp.graphics	video article apr nwnexus mscrap halcyon marta lyall writes organization world information your fingertips keywords article toontown columbiasc ncr craig toontown columbiasc ncr craig williamson writes getting ready buy multimedia workstation and advice graphics card that will video and windows originally thinking targa that doesn work windows cards into craig forgive divine craig williamson airhead human craig williamson columbiasc ncr balki bartokomas craig toontown columbiasc ncr home perfect strangers craig you targa run windows time work and works fine you driver josh west email mscrap halcyon puts two products for windows model numbers elude bit video board framegrabber and bit yesterday product local software etc store media vision makes bit color frame capture board that stand alone and doesnot use feature connector your existing video card claims upto fps live capture single frame composite ntsc video and don lewis djlewis ualr edu
comp.graphics	stand alone editing suite upgrading animation video editing stand into type setups for roll and cuts station this controlled computer brand doesnt matter mac amiga low end high end system setups helpful you system use system that use you mail your system requirements used for and hardware and software that will set system you info you can mail eylerken washington edu advance ken eylerken washington edu
comp.graphics	grasp article apr baron edb tih havardn edb tih haavard nesse writes save each frame grasp animation gif jpg iff picture formats you grasp animation system quite easy you simply use glib extract image each frame complete pcx clp file use utilities convert you don grasp package afraid can you you grasp graphics animation system for professionals commercial product that sells for mail order companies and don corey webb corey webb for wisdom grief and cbw vma smsu edu that increaseth knowledge increaseth bitnet cbw smsvma sorrow ecclesiastes means you experienced speaking for jimi hendrix
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library for mac article apr kth jwa hemul nada kth jon wtte writes cellar org tsa cellar org silent assassin writes building cad package and graphics library that can handle rudimentry tasks such hidden line removal shading animation etc can you offer recommendations apda called macwireframe full wire frame and supposedly hidden line removal library weighs wrong order magnitude spoke author macwireframe earlier today cost license royalties name eric johnson sacramento phone doesn email nice guy knowledgeable graphics decent package object pascal framework that supposedly fairly complete set geometry creation classes check and for cad package found another package graphic tools micro system options seattle number email package strong ray tracing not geometry creation tools into this package spoke author mark owens another nice guy that business price royalties bobc
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library for mac article qnm finn tamsun tamu edu brentb tamsun tamu edu brent writes tsa cellar org silent assassin writes rgc bcstec boeing robert carpenter writes can you offer recommendations not that hard books explain and basic functions translation rotation shading and hidden line removal pretty easy wrote program weeks witht book and happy give you source wanted avoid reinventing wheel want concentrate development issues created graphics libraries time consuming life short quickdraw lot functions built and pascal can access and expect that you can find use quickdraw graphics library excellent choice since lot stuff and built into mac fast clarify routines that mentioned places mac libray not rom mac years ago knew implementing graphics across demo apple grafsys library and lot quite limited sense that low level library your code plot individual points draw each line etc nauseum nothing for example you can handle objects for clarification posting original request had looked into mac capabilities and dismissed low grade bobc
comp.graphics	rumours article apr mercury unt edu sean mcmains mcmains unt edu writes article apr rchland ibm ricardo hernandez muchado ricardo rchland vnet ibm writes and cpu doesn understand supposedly variation running mhz this speed you sprites wow interested hands fact that motorola not released supposedly lineup don excited signetics not motorola gave number understand rightly instruction set and chip serial port and dma will run mhz typing computer running that rate that can doubt clock rate that ricardo rchland vnet ibm claims james jones
comp.graphics	wanted multi page gif searching for packages that handle multi page gif files ftp servers works dos windows package works unix will advance
comp.graphics	physics lab loses number starting address pointer for beginning color information rgb vga mode that hex gee duh soooo hugs and kisses advance john uci mail eapu orion oac uci edu
comp.graphics	articles flocking can point articles boids flocking algorithms articles particle animation formulas nice james kewageshig james kewageshig canrem fidonet james kewageshig deluxe head this signature virus canada remote systems toronto ontario
comp.graphics	dos recently found for dos subdirectory gnu gnuish use frequently sun spark station and never had problems start computer option display menu and start gif file hard disk turns seconds and prompt come back computer copro mega rams tseng running dos himem sys and emm sys had exe driver run somenone solution run apprecied advance pascal perret perret eicn etna ecole ing nieur ets not this time locle suisse enjoy computer
comp.graphics	polygon splitting algo idea clip polygon another polygon not necessarily rectangular window problem finding vertices resulting subpolygons this simply matter extending usual algorithm each edges polygon checked another polygon simpler comments noel
comp.graphics	jensen bitmap code faq read july joshua jensen posted article bitmap manipulation specifically scaling and perspective newsgroup rec games programmer article article included source code turbo pascal inline assembly language unable find archive for this newsgroup current email address for joshua jensen details copy code gratefully etc myles myles strous email myles strous lib monash edu raytracing fan phone urgent grasp reality cardboard cut proud team archchancellor mustrum ridcully reaper man terry pratchett
comp.graphics	hdf readers viewers wrote day can point utility will read convert crop whatnot display hdf image files had hdf stuff ncsa and award for odd directory structure strange storage approaches and minimalist documentation and since turned that mirror sites looked fooled restructuring original site zaphod ncsa uiuc edu and mess that and pointer imconv started muchly cheers markus markus buchhorn parallel computing research facility email markus octavia anu edu australian national university canberra australia international australia phone fax
comp.graphics	motion video card yuv rgb convert motion ibm video file format yuv rgb data portion byte byte color and and intensity ideas for algorhtyms programs can info and television signal you info reply mail address basically converting digital ntsc format rgb vga for displaying captured video pictures byte
comp.graphics	tseng pixel clock program tseng nonstandard mode switching standard mode bios and changing timing details registers don select mhz pixel clock bios function selects mhz obtain technical info this interested technical information tseng and trident and chipsets pavel zemcik dept comp sci eng technical university brno bozetechova brno czech republic mail zemcik dcse fee vutbr
comp.graphics	sun ipx root window display background picture netters fairly weak question netland looked last faq for comp graphics didn find answer post short question display raster files gif files iff tiff images that root window background sun ipc openwindows sun that helps compiled pov for sun and display work background tile for information that you provide good day scott fleming osi kudo people provided pov great
comp.graphics	hdf readers viewers day can point utility will read convert crop whatnot display hdf image files had hdf stuff ncsa and award for odd directory structure strange storage approaches and minimalist documentation part problem that want large hdf files and crop section ideally hdftoppm type utility can use pbmplus stuff quite merrily can convert cropped part into another format for viewing animation can explain set ncsa visualisation for hdf beta and cropping etc this for suns sunos greatly appreciated muchly cheers markus markus buchhorn parallel computing research facility email markus octavia anu edu australian national university canberra australia international australia phone fax markus buchhorn parallel computing research facility email markus octavia anu edu australian national university canberra australia international australia phone fax
comp.graphics	grayscale printer jian jian coos dartmouth edu wrote interested purchasing grayscale printer that offers good resoltuion for grayscale medical images can give recommendations products market for advice peter hauke brunel university psh brunel
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance ulrich galki toppoint wrote tiff specification tiff version number bytes chosen for deep philosophical significance read this rotfl finally philosphy technical spec wondered makes significant last week read hitchhikers guide galaxy and rotfl second time millions years calculation second computer time reveals that answer question life universe and this picked number suggestions don douglas adams pretty launched guide since showing place thing for sheep not creature earth joachim kih back masking haaden exposure robert fripp
comp.graphics	viewer for files article dux dundee dwestner cardhu mcs dundee dominik westner writes subject viewer for files for xviewgl filename xviewgl tar lots bases ove you yep this real life ove petter tro ford fairlane kongsberg college engineering norway email ovep kih
comp.graphics	bit mode speedstar diamond speedstar board that want program for bit graphics possibly bit color libraries supporting modes this board even somes simple routines set graphics mode and plot individual pixels great plan use routines djgp advance respond mail david max max slinky nyu edu
comp.graphics	flat globe marse kristin marco seirio writes algorithm for flattening globe parametric surface that definied parametrically that sheet paper and knife and calculate cut paper can fold globe object library map projections charon usgs gov pub proj tar
comp.graphics	motion video card yuv rgb contact you offline this rick
comp.graphics	dos mail address eicn etna writes recently found for dos subdirectory gnu gnuish you you ftp this copy mailed you your post you mail address wayne michael wdm world std
comp.graphics	rumours article apr microware jejones microware james jones writes article apr mercury unt edu sean mcmains mcmains unt edu writes article apr rchland ibm ricardo hernandez muchado ricardo rchland vnet ibm writes and cpu doesn understand supposedly variation running mhz this speed you sprites wow interested hands fact that motorola not released supposedly lineup don excited signetics not motorola gave number understand rightly instruction set and chip serial port and dma will run mhz typing computer running that rate that can doubt clock rate that ricardo rchland vnet ibm claims james jones can run upto mhz doesn mean running that speed understand running mhz not read this long time ago mhz you sprites for lot tricks for making cool awesome games read psygnosis raist owner colors bit palette love low fat sig don mail don valid address can send mail
comp.graphics	newsgroup split article quvdoinn srvr engin umich edu tdawson engin umich edu chris herringshaw writes proposed newsgroup split personally not favor this learn awful lot aspects graphics reading this group code hardware algorithms making groups this wate and will result posts week per group kind convenience big forum for discussing aspects graphics feel this curious agree dizzying number amiga newsgroups addition issues fall cleanly into categories readily observable that current spectrum amiga groups plagued mega crossposting group split not likelihood bring structured environment michael nerone customary lack tact and internet address since you asked for this you will obliged nerone ccwf utexas edu pardon sagredo fictional char galileo
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance article apr samba oit unc edu cptully med unc edu christopher tully pathology writes tight for that matter tiff not gripe problems important you volunteer define critique spec spec since quoted last posting gripe tiff that complicated and infinitely easier write read hurts your acceptance that will read images paint programs nutshell don tiff salvageable fat trimmed significantly and wouldn tiff anymore cut back late will fix and change that magic number signify lack compatibility that make happy
comp.graphics	fonts pov rtrace ray tracer supports text primitive not collections spheres cylinders and chars made lines and splines that extruded asterix inescn directory pub rtrace pub rtrace tmp demo images high quality text called text jpg jpeg encoded and you regards antonio antonio costa mail acc asterix inescn acosta porto inescn comp graphics cad decnet porto costa largo mompilher mcvax porto portugal bell good times roll
comp.graphics	rtrace version rtrace ray tracing package asterix inescn directory pub rtrace check readme file rtrace can use suit toolkit nice user interface compile dsuit modify makefile suit suit uvacs virginia edu binaries rtrace suit for sun sparc sgi indigo and dos contact interested mac rtrace port directory pub rtrace macintosh reid judd reid judd east sun and greg ferrar gregt function mps ohio state edu small since version discard backface polygons and triangles for fast preview support program scn sff reworked use temp files short description current converters cad molecular chemistry packages scn format package programs related below marked modified irit scn irit nff nffclean nffp sol scn acad nff sff mol scn scn sff rtrace alchemy scn sff pic ppm cpp pdb scn picmix pdb picblend ppmmix chem scn ppmblend chemical scn studio scn iris inventor dos port rtrace pub rtrace rtrac arj utils arj and image arj readme file requires djgpp dos extender version included can found directory pub djgpp and sites netland demo scenes manuals and source code feel free and use hope you regards antonio costa antonio costa mail acc asterix inescn comp graphics cad decnet porto acosta largo mompilher mcvax porto portugal bell good times roll
comp.graphics	images earth apr unocal stgprao unocal richard ottolini writes beware such copyrighted image and company that generated protect that copyright that image hundreds man hours build source satellite images that competing images will sue newspaper for printing article didn copyrights louis hanging your words living your breath feeling your skin will your room
comp.graphics	newsgroup split article nerone apr sylvester utexas edu nerone ccwf utexas edu michael nerone writes article quvdoinn srvr engin umich edu tdawson engin umich edu chris herringshaw writes proposed newsgroup split personally not favor this learn awful lot aspects graphics reading this group code hardware algorithms making groups this wate and will result posts week per group kind convenience big forum for discussing aspects graphics feel this curious agree dizzying number amiga newsgroups addition issues fall cleanly into categories readily observable that current spectrum amiga groups plagued mega crossposting group split not likelihood bring structured environment michael nerone customary lack tact and internet address since you asked for this you will obliged nerone ccwf utexas edu pardon sagredo fictional char galileo nice hard ware platforms hard ware fixed case unix dos not interested amiga news case software won comercial software mentioned this newgroup run unix platform not interested this information suggest split group don problem cross posting you read newgroups half size important faq this reduce traffic lot sincerely gerhard writing this privat person not reflecting opinions inst hydromechanics university karlsruhe land baden wuerttemberg federal republic germany and european community address and phone number below touch writing and typing wrong statement avoid law suits dipl ing gerhard bosch voice institute for hydromechanic fax university karlsruhe kaiserstrasse karlsruhe germany internet bosch ifh bau verm uni karlsruhe bitnet dkauni bitnet
comp.graphics	wanted info image databases guess subject references introductory material image databases send pointers mini point uwm edu advance mini mini point uwm edu mini csd csd uwm edu
comp.graphics	lyon lamb minivas control abekas minivas and want record abekas functions working set record minivas hangs sending abekas smpte time code code can compare and and ftp site for minivas and abekas code gordon phillips glp cray gordon phillips glp cray
comp.graphics	stay mag innovision sar uakron edu sar uakron edu steve rimar writes mag works fine mine beautiful for year and half foomp bought viewsonic another great monitor imho kevin martin sigma rahul net gotta another hat
comp.graphics	detecting double points bezier curves oeinck waterland wlink ferdinand oeinck writes for information detecting and calculating double point and cusp bezier curve maureen stone and tony derose geometric characterization parametric cubic curves acm tog vol july ron capelli ibm corp dept capelli vnet ibm box poughkeepsie answers cross references
comp.graphics	grasp cbw vma smsu edu ext corey webb writes article apr baron edb tih havardn edb tih haavard nesse writes save each frame grasp animation gif jpg iff picture formats you grasp animation system quite easy you simply use glib extract image each frame complete pcx clp file use utilities convert you don grasp package afraid can you you grasp graphics animation system for professionals commercial product that sells for mail order companies and don corey webb public domain utilities your usual archive site that extraction single frames file check graphics directories grasp problem that clp files you generate cannot decoded format converters used hint you problems locating utilities hope helps jacques oberto oberto genes icgeb trieste
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance ratatosk uninett joachim kih joachim lous writes suggestions don douglas adams pretty launched guide since showing place douglas adams once paraphrased memory picked sort number you wouldn afraid home meet your parents nice and even perfectly normal kevin martin sigma rahul net gotta another hat
comp.graphics	dos apr eicn etna mail address eicn etna writes somenone solution run apprecied guess that requires almost commonly djgpp setup for programs you don running you can requires interfacing kevin martin sigma rahul net gotta another hat
comp.graphics	postscript driver for gino can anonymous ftp postscript driver for graphics libraries gino verison runnining vax vms and for outputing plots postscript file advance koon tang internet ktt unix bton department mathematical sciences uknet itri ktt university brighton brighton
comp.graphics	info medical imaging systems into medical imaging good ray tracing background and interested that field you point sources you experience you want talk you working jason freund
comp.graphics	paradise vga paradise svga chip docs that can display modes colours and cols ramdac hicolor chip checked board and such chip problem that can this mode work graphics workshop claims that can display bit images dithered bit colour board doesn work writing assembler code modes working and found that each pixel addressed word bit lower bits considered this happens mode mode refuses work remains text mode tristan
comp.graphics	anti aliasing utility wanted povray mac and wondering netland public domain anti aliasing utilities that can skip this step pov slow this machine suggestions opinions post trace anti aliasing greatly appreciated helmut dotzlaw dept biochemistry and molecular biology university manitoba winnipeg canada dotzlaw ccu umanitoba
comp.graphics	another cview question cview answers cview work color mode trident color card colors come screwed and worst program hangs loaded vesa driver and thing happens machines doesn work trident viewer that lisa
comp.graphics	sun ipx root window display background picture not you information you for post for general public load image your root window add this line end your xsession file xloadimage onroot fullscreen gif file name this assuming you xloadimage client and for switches pretty explain you leave terminal locks till you kill you knew that hope this helps daemon
comp.graphics	wanted multi page gif article apr worak kaist stjohn math kaist ryou seong joon writes searching for packages that handle multi page gif files you for viewer vpic lasse mits mdata
comp.graphics	ray tracer for dos for repeat this request good free shareware program can create ray traces and save bit mapped files such thing advance daemon
comp.graphics	images earth sue newspaper for printing article didn copyrights newspaper copyrighted permission use image copyright mark
comp.graphics	images earth article apr ruu clldomps ruu louis van dompselaar writes apr unocal stgprao unocal richard ottolini writes beware such copyrighted image and company that generated protect that copyright that image hundreds man hours build source satellite images that competing images will sue newspaper for printing article didn copyrights explicit image attributed geosphere company likelihood permission reprint that owner can will individuals interesting images make into ads and computer demos that pirate flak this image considered interesting that people use whenever global map needed lots temptation mail person since source data satellite imagery not copyrighted derived image can not true distinctive creative expression data can protected this image fits such since tremendous effort create precedent recent telephone book court case bell copyright data books and prevent competitors copying trick entries book court permitted copyright expression data and not data you xerox and sell telephone book will attention digital copyrights future and computer becomes mass product and moguls such bill gates hoarding digital copyrights prefer that geosphere put this data public domain interesting and that things
comp.graphics	images earth downloaded image earth constructed elevation data degree increments author not wrote code included that read data file and generated and pseudo color images work and not incumbered copyright aminet site you called earth lha amiga pix misc area refer you included docs for details author forget name created images raw data not included david david ingebretsen evans sutherland computer corp dingebre thunder sim disclaimer content this message reflects opinions employer actions encouraged supported acknowledged employer
comp.graphics	polygon splitting algo article qvq wampyr uow edu wampyr uow edu coronado emmanuel abad writes idea clip polygon another polygon not necessarily rectangular window problem finding vertices resulting subpolygons this simply matter extending usual algorithm each edges polygon checked another polygon simpler comments noel depends kind polygons convex simple concave trouble concave loop inside big trouble you can use box test avoid checking each edges experience not simple headache stuff deal special cases for example overlapped lines yeh usc
comp.graphics	images earth article apr ruu clldomps ruu louis van dompselaar writes sue newspaper for printing article didn copyrights newspaper almost copyrighted entirety newspapers generally employ legal staffs make permission use copyrighted image text you john john humpal johnh jhunix hcf jhu edu short sig std disclaimer
comp.graphics	comp graphics programmer article qukk innd names nerdc ufl edu lioness maple circa ufl edu writes that almost overkill this make lot happier comp graphics programmer comp graphics hardware comp graphics apps comp graphics misc that closer dislike apps software hardware that engulf alt graphics pixutils that programmer don traffic heavy warrant newsgroup split busy comp graphics research not true that lot traffic rehashing faqs and discussing things that diverted system specific groups don whether split hurt that comp graphics rtfb for people can bothered read fine books rogers
comp.graphics	stand alone editing suite article qvkaeinngat shelley washington edu eylerken stein washington edu ken eyler writes upgrading animation video editing stand into type setups for roll and cuts station this controlled computer brand doesnt matter mac amiga low end high end system setups helpful you system use system that use you mail your system requirements used for and hardware and software that will set system you info you can mail eylerken washington edu advance ken eylerken washington edu lewis and clark college recently installed digital film system based mac quadra that linear full digital editing you such system pros and cons for educational environment this system excellent use produce variety educational materials for disemination local network this programming viewed macs image quality not important ability directly export video net use produce orientiation and promotional video programs for use lewis clark community since programs not meant for commercial broadcast use image quality not critical digital film system for you uninitiated roll digitizing system jpeg compression card promoted inexpensive online editing system svhs quality supermac maker card achieve this quality level unable deliver system produces vhs quality fields per second overscan card repeats field fields per second this results kind super film that find distracting you can past this problem you find adobe premier editing software quite enjoyable work produces thousands effects crystalize filters dve transitions color matting linear nature editing fast and easy you used used avid montage system you recognize methodology and user interface total system quadra megs ram gig drive apple mon itor panasonic svhs edit deck audio gear cassette mixer etc composite monitor digital film card will set you back for you video cowboys and girls this system will not output quality that will satisfy your clients even you can perform effects toasterhead can imagine amiga based line based system will use macs and amigas for video work each for each dan snodgrass media services lewis clark college portland
comp.graphics	problems note newsgroups recent discussion problems held newsgroup text users find interesting added text this collection article read even you articles ago hope author corrects problems can fine program that worth improving minor ideas for bit mail for misundertanding mine understandable juhana kouhia clip deleted note that saves bit rasterized images that means that saved jpegs jpeg gif jpeg quality kind bit quantizers your final image quality depends this situation read jpeg faq ago imho design error not such confusing errors programs two errors saving bit rasterized image jpeg even original bit saving bit rasterized image original bit special case saving bit rasterized image made quantizer main case that quantizes image quantizer saving image file lousier quantizers for viewing purposes and special cases saving image clip clip deleted limit not limit design error design error that bit quantized rasterized images stored jpegs jpeg not designed that matter fact designed bit displays not bad error program program for bit images that time bit image formats included program design changed support bit images that not and program violate jpeg design and bit image format program human interface errors otherway drop saving images jpegs bit format that special case and not expected normal use deleted clip items follows clip that quantizes image sometimes poorly option default option reason surely quantizer used surprise used ppmquant you remember tested quantizers that test found that rlequant default comes djpeg fbmquant default that order test ppmquant suggeeded poorly gave image bad artifacts don ppmquant improved expect use option not good idea suggest that author quantizer used rlequant rle people permission another used imagemagick not tested can nothing clip clip minor bugs human interface key pressings and cursor clicks buffer happens that make click errors press keyboard cursor wrong place annoying you waited image come minutes and immediately buffer cleaned image complete good idea wait seconds activating keyboard and mouse for image completed happens that image pops screen quickly writing editor such key pressings and image weird color editor turn color meter and release updates images impossible change rgb values and updated image annoying wait image updated setting not ready suggest adding apply button update exchanges clip
comp.graphics	newsgroup split article quvdoinn srvr engin umich edu tdawson engin umich edu chris herringshaw writes tdawson engin umich edu chris herringshaw subject newsgroup split date apr gmt proposed newsgroup split personally not favor this learn awful lot aspects graphics reading this group code hardware algorithms making groups this wate and will result posts week per group kind convenience big forum for discussing aspects graphics feel this curious daemon actuallay don hand don support idea newsgroup for aspect graphics programming proposed brian reply original posting suggest looser structure comp graphics programmer comp graphics and reason for making groups for reason you shouldn spilt not postings day takes time browse postings find two interested understand and agree you you want aspects graphics meeting agree extension news forum exchange ideas helped this difficult achive things meeting good evening netters arff for not religous confessor mystery higher values birth mankind last builds indisputible and disregarded seldom you hear beeing prized seldom you hear man prizeing sees per lagerkvist fist free translation swedish andreas arff andreasa dhhalden
comp.graphics	beta testers wanted for graphics libraries visual numerics inc imsl and precision visuals process securing sites for beta testing exponent graphics and exponent graphics exponent graphics and exponent graphics products beta period april june platform running ansi compiler media will dat cartridge tape key facts two products exponent graphics key facts complete collection high level and application plot types large collection resources cstom widget for osf motif developers built interactive gui for plot customization easily implemented callbacks for customized application feedback xeg built toolkit user widget library that conforms expected syntax and standards familar programmers xeg will sold bundle visual edge uim product this will enable user use gui builder create graphical layout application exponent graphics key facts written for application programmers developers library written and programming interface conforms standards taking advantage desirable features build gui for interactive plot customization mouse interaction user complete interactive graph output control graphics attributes for plot customization large collection high level application functions for two call graph creation wide variety and plot types minimal programming effort user ability interrupt and control event controlling event loop user use mouse manipulate plot user can ceg control event loop user can control event loop interested beta testing products contact wendy hou visual numerics email hou imsl call jaclyn brandt jbrandt neosoft
comp.graphics	radiosity for source code for radiosity method don kind machine you want for program radiance comes source code don ftp access couldn you that canada remote systems toronto ontario
comp.graphics	newsgroup split article nerone apr sylvester utexas edu nerone ccwf utexas edu michael nerone writes nerone ccwf utexas edu michael nerone subject newsgroup split date apr article quvdoinn srvr engin umich edu tdawson engin umich edu chris herringshaw writes proposed newsgroup split personally not favor this learn awful lot aspects graphics reading this group code hardware algorithms making groups this wate and will result posts week per group kind convenience big forum for discussing aspects graphics feel this curious agree dizzying number amiga newsgroups addition issues fall cleanly into categories readily observable that current spectrum amiga groups plagued mega crossposting group split not likelihood bring structured environment michael nerone customary lack tact and internet address since you asked for this you will obliged nerone ccwf utexas edu pardon sagredo fictional char galileo point that not talking amiga comp graphics arff for not religous confessor mystery higher values birth mankind last builds indisputible and disregarded seldom you hear beeing prized seldom you hear man prizeing sees per lagerkvist fist free translation swedish andreas arff andreasa dhhalden
comp.graphics	coreldraw bitmap scodal software that will you convert coreldraw cdr files containing bitmaps scodal this format bureau filmrecorder recognises jeff lyall inst geo nuc sci lower hutt zealand
comp.graphics	fast polygon routine needed article gsq news cso uiuc edu osprey cso uiuc edu lucas adamski writes article apr sophia smith edu orourke sophia smith edu joseph rourke writes fast polygon routine draw polygons vga mode game and asm faster draw concave polygons that method slow kind polygons shaded texturemapped comes into play fast routines polygons nice exaclty system vga start processor and specifics implementation you give info you want answers ian romanick dancing fool epsilon contained thoughts opinions epn ntsc quality psu not agree don douche anti freeze dead milkmen
comp.graphics	radiosity article apr aragorn unibe you write working radiosity package written make public domain announce minute finished that good news bad news another months finish you traditional radiosity method progressive refinement your package you project patches hemi cube surfaces technique you you hardware facilitate projection meantime you file radiosity code tar located compute ncsu edu guest username and password for this ftp site locations archie nearest hope that stephan stephan josephine
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance joachim kih joachim lous writes ulrich galki toppoint wrote tiff specification tiff version number bytes chosen for deep philosophical significance last week read hitchhikers guide galaxy and rotfl second time millions years calculation second computer time reveals that answer question life universe and this picked number suggestions this moment king had for time busily writing note book called silence and read book rule forty two persons mile high leave court looked alice not mile high alice you king two miles high added queen sha rate alice that not regular rule you invented oldest rule book king number alice marc kaufman kaufman stanford edu
comp.graphics	another cview question reply apr rigel tamu edu lmp rigel tamu edu preston lisa trident card and fullview works real gif jpg dave
comp.graphics	univesa driver univesa driver net thought that finally meg oak board show colors program that can this fault program fractint wrong card univesa free driver net that makes boards vesa compatible
comp.graphics	windows imagine for copy today snail mail hope back ten days impulse week hope good claim jim nobles hope takes use
comp.graphics	fast polygon routine needed article pdxgate idr rigel pdx edu ian romanick writes kind polygons shaded texturemapped comes into play fast routines polygons nice exaclty system vga start processor and specifics implementation you give info you want answers don want texture mapped asked for simple and fast routine filled polygons for processor for minimum can find good for ideally want polyn function that can clip user defined viewport and write arbitrary location memory chances finding that pretty remote guess source and guess asm slow polygon routines and waaay slow for vector graphics program hunting high and low for polyn function asm and can find anywhere that can use found two polyn functions asm pretty bad won even rewrite lucas
comp.graphics	ribbon information kind utility program for ribbons ribbons popular representation for shape find symmetry axis shape ribbons suggestions will greatly appreciated start program advance hoi yoo engr ucf edu
comp.graphics	rgb data saved images find program figure extract values for each pixel image can convert tga and everal popular formats values for use program writing for
comp.graphics	fast polygon routine needed osprey cso uiuc edu lucas adamski writes article apr sophia smith edu orourke sophia smith edu joseph rourke writes article news cso uiuc edu osprey cso uiuc edu lucas adamski writes for fast polygon routine used game fast polygon routine draw polygons vga mode game come across fast triangle fill draw routine for mode calling this routine times you fast polygon drawing routine ftp wuarchive wustl edu pub msdos uploads programming copy reupload triangle txt file this and inline assembly source for vga mode triangle drawer stephen quan quan sol surv utas edu tel local research fellow computer scientist fax local centre for spatial information systems tel university tasmania australia fax
comp.graphics	fast wireframe graphics working program display wireframe models user arbitrarily change viewing parameters wireframe objects dynamic attributes that can move user exploring wireframe world this thinking srgp package described van dam foley and feiner book wondering another graphics package faster make program fast that satisfactory real time performance sun ipx ideally for graphics package will open window and draw lines window sort event driven interaction handling since user move wireframe models keyboard you wrote such package grateful you direct ftp site contains package you yong kim class internet cunixb columbia edu columbia college columbia university ykim columbia edu
comp.graphics	sgi sales practices crimson kubota announcement qjrec qem network ucsd edu spl ivem ucsd edu steve lamont writes annoyed fact that led that upgrade multiprocessor version crimson assistance fork lift truck made fairly clear that crimson style mhz cpu upgrade this mentioned comp sys sgi occasion likely sales folks confused honest ethical chain inside sgi misleading annoyed sold personal irises previous site understanding that architecture for flushed versions admittedly time period years chassis simply couldn pushed years pretty good lifespan for system design this day and age getting work caused lot gray hairs hardware and product design groups minds push and that made clear almost day started shipping had last kicker form elan graphics made graphics versions lifespan pretty good understand that sgi responsible investors and showing positive quarterly bottom line odd that found pressured two occasions business books end quarter tired getting boned process means send complaint letter sgi support sales your concerns reason for sales folks misrepresent future upgrades customers sometimes will confusion for whether upgrade will that shouldn last long and doesn you referring sales folks bonus end quarters that pretty common industry wide and sometimes that can result good deals for customers sometimes pushes folks into systems that aren forcing you buy end quarter lab buys sgis onesies and twosies aren entitled peek covers big kids nasa for instance this lab and suspect that lot labs don that long lead time presentations products and opinions influence end product that life industry can design systems that meet won sell systems not that don niche products reality engine and organizations doesn load money spend computers year can buying systems regular basis boxes that buy will last pretty entire grant period years and case that means that buy piece equipment that can money not product that built paraphrase previous poster words fill niche compete vendor this box for years and time sgi and spent money your money since supported almost federal tax dollars surely you don expect system you buy for year period constantly upgradable that entire year period that unreasonable expectation experience workstations microcomputers supported and parts not upgradable latest and greatest you pardon and hiss and fume corner and dark libelous thoughts missed your posting means share your frustation level inside sgi effect not complaints aren and affect future plans hear similar things person site usual personal opinion not sgi that silence consent dave olson silent dissents silicon graphics inc maria isabel barreno olson sgi start sabbatical questions
comp.graphics	pascal fractals eve albany edu albnyvms bitnet heavy home
comp.graphics	detecting double points bezier curves article apr kpc jbulf balsa berkeley edu jeff bulf writes article oeinck waterland wlink ferdinan oeinck waterland wlink ferdinand oeinck writes for information detecting and calculating double point and cusp bezier curve algorithm literature reference mail this appreciated article issues transactions graphics maureen stone authors not specific don reference stone derose geometric characterization parametric cubic curves acm trans graphics manocha canny detecting cusps and inflection points curves computer aided geometric design pekka siltanen
comp.graphics	coreldraw bitmap scodal coreldraw write scodl files directly file export main menu rick
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance marc kaufman kaufman xenon stanford edu wrote suggestions this moment king had for time busily writing note book called silence and read book rule forty two persons mile high leave court looked alice not mile high alice you king two miles high added queen sha rate alice that not regular rule you invented oldest rule book king number alice collection occurances and guide not receive odd bits you postings alt fan douglas adams thing for sheep not creature earth joachim kih back masking haaden exposure robert fripp
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance joachim lous joachim kih wrote ulrich galki toppoint wrote suggestions yep theory that once heard bandied thinking number sound for tea two sort anagram tea for two two for tea for tea two peter peter hauke brunel university psh brunel
comp.graphics	pascal fractals apparently editor didn wanted for programs code simple animation and drawing fractals turbopascal for ibm advance eve albany edu albnyvms bitnet heavy home
comp.graphics	irit pov made converter irit irt dat format pov format sebastian schmidt ilmenau institut praktische informatik
comp.graphics	rtrace comp graphics cad cgcad bart inescn wrote version rtrace ray tracing package asterix inescn directory pub rtrace check readme file reach site ping icmp net unreachable gateway nsn fix sura net for icmp ccws brunel for you upload mainstream ftp place
comp.graphics	grasp quoted apr genes icgeb trieste oberto genes icgeb trieste jacques oberto file check graphics directories grasp problem that clp files you generate cannot decoded format converters used hint lzh stuff gfx show aminet sites includes utility called pic that filter for hamlab that can handle commonly used kinds pic and clp files biggest problem that clp files don palette you convert pic palette creates ram picpal file and convert clp files jacques oberto oberto genes icgeb trieste john bickers tap jbickers templar actrix gen radioactivity air for you and kraftwerk
comp.graphics	pbm sources can name anonymous ftp site can find sources pbm package portable bit gray pixel map compile and run sun sparcstation
comp.graphics	fractals good article mdpyssc mcc mdpyssc mcc sue cunningham writes iterated systems compression board compress pathology images and getting ratios loss quality taking mins per image compress mhz decompression almost real time software alone that compare jpeg images and hardware size speed and image quality concerned despite skeptical and sometimes rabid postings criticizing barnsley and company interested technique weren wouldn critical
comp.graphics	univesa driver article news duke edu seth north acpub duke edu seth wandersman writes univesa driver net thought that finally meg oak board show colors program that can this fault program fractint wrong card univesa free driver net that makes boards vesa compatible whats this color mode asking lot your hardware don lewis djlewis ualr edu
comp.graphics	radiosity article yuma acns colostate edu longs lance colostate edu xia zhao writes article apr aragorn unibe you write working radiosity package written make public domain announce minute finished that good news bad news another months finish you traditional radiosity method progressive refinement your package package based articles standard radiosity and unpublished methods main articles cohen chen wallace greenberg progressive refinement approach fast radiosity image generation computer graphics siggraph august silion puech general two pass method integrating specular and diffuse reflection computer graphics siggraph july you project patches hemi cube surfaces technique you you hardware facilitate projection not use hemi cubes special hardware sun sparcstation meantime you file radiosity code tar located compute ncsu edu guest username and password for this ftp site use anonymous username and your mail address password locations archie nearest hope that stephan stephan josephine stephan stephan amann sig computer graphics university berne switzerland amann iam unibe tel fax projects radiosity raytracing computer graphics
comp.graphics	for dos this response for wayne michael and for for late answer couldn find for msdos forgot address retrieve posting this answer comp graphics can use mail not bad english swiss and language french long time retrieve address you can find for dos site omnigate clarkson edu aliases grape ecs clarkson edu number pub msdos djgpp pub zip you read answer kevin martin write answer advance pascal perret perret eicn etna ecole ing nieur ets not this time locle suisse enjoy computer
comp.graphics	studio differences previous version significant differences and you for helping marc mail marc fombaron ufrima imag marc fombaron grenoble
comp.graphics	coreldraw bitmap scodal software that will you convert coreldraw cdr files containing bitmaps scodal this format bureau filmrecorder recognises jeff lyall used this combination for qcr recorder and remember corel can export scodal scd format select export main file menu this not implemented earlier versions case you your that for qcr time strange and undesirable things part pic screen area corel once spent afternoon painfully discovering that pixel had strayed screen causing slide blank qcr couldn handle grad fill grad fill you use graduated colour background you grad fill object top this fill appears final slide circle and totally ignores shape object filled recorder isn qcr you can ignore this and feel suitably cheers toby toby freeman glasgow university freemant glasgow dcs
comp.graphics	oak vga needd vesa tsr svga oak chip and don vesa tsr program for this card can mail lulagos araucaria cec uchile mackk ack
comp.graphics	paintbrush configure zsoft paintbrush for use logitech scanman hand scanner can paintbrush acknowledge scanner paintbrush scanner can you luis nobrega file bank bbs pcboard usr hst nodes rime internet largest clipper file collection world
comp.graphics	for dos noe mailaddress eicn etna wrote for late answer couldn find for msdos forgot address retrieve posting this answer comp graphics can use mail not bad english swiss and language french french your language counting french stead will work thing for sheep not creature earth joachim kih back masking haaden exposure robert fripp
comp.graphics	cview answers cyberspace buddha wixer bga wrote renew blade stack urc tue rene walter writes places temp files places current directory beg differ this point batch file use launch cview dir cview resides and invokes time crash cview byte temp file found root dir drive cview posted this cview expert apparently thought knew matthew zenkar moscom
comp.graphics	image pictures for advice software hardware package for making storing and processing pictures ideal software cahnge size picture edit means add text below and important dos command interface you advance emanuel marciniak bank york
comp.graphics	needed hidden line removal for information hidden line removal roberts algorithm code pseudo code helpful required this for class due monday time implement fast paced class notes class leave lot desired vastly algorithm nice roberts main problem two objects intersecting and dimensions lines clip that object will front another you can give ftp address and filename even name good book brian raynor
comp.graphics	otis project ftp sites for original art and images otis project operative term stimulate this file last updated otis otis for purpose distributing original artwork and photographs network for public perusal scrutiny and distribution digital immortality basic idea digital immortality that computer networks stay and that interesting you deposit will forever gifs and jpgs today will artifacts digital future perhaps put formats perhaps surviving backup tapes and will dig that doesn interest you otis offers forum for critique and exhibition your works virtual art gallery that never closes and exists information dimension your submissions will hang wallpaper thousands glowing monitors suddenly life breathed into your work and merit stimulus will travel globe pulses light and electrons spectators feel free browse gallery and artists you efforts your copies images you gumption that for otis two ftp sites projects otis uwi site sunsite unc edu pub multimedia pictures otis sunsite you can gopher this site for otis anonymous ftp site internet and change directory don forget busy and use bin command make you binary otis spreading dial bbs systems north america systems substancial supply otistuff underground cafe omaha lines cyberden sanfran usenet waffle iron you contribute happens you draw pretty picture lovely photo scanned into image file ftp put contrib incoming directory use uuencode send email addresses eof email image received will put into correct directory computer originated works otis directories house two types image files gif and jpg gif and jpg files require oddly gif jpg viewer viewers for types computers large ftp sites internet jpg viewers bit tougher find you can find gif viewer you can obtain jpg gif conversion program will change jpg files standard gif format otis accepts animation files you submit image files send email time stating information you uploaded and whether used publications projects for people view include biographical information info files each contributing artist and works you can upload text file info emailing you pictures scanner hope send copies otis project stastny omaha will scan will scan include ample sase you want your stuff back include information each image preferably line description image that can include infofile directory finally put you preferences images named include conversely you scanner and contact and arrange things you want submit your works disk peachy send disk address omaha and sase you want your disk back this good for people don direct access encoders ftp access scanner accept disks mac ibm compatible format submit image files gif jpg you can can convert formats not senders request can fill disks otis can stand even you don stuff contribute you can send blank disk and sase for disk postage and packing slab otis megabytes files and growing email for current archive size and directory distribution images distributed otis project distributed freely condition that original filename and that not altered save convert image format another fact encourage files distributed local bulletin boards and such you transport text files images nice you send note you post images otis your local bbs want track participants can idea widespread stuff purpose otis images spread you time upload your favorite bbs system even post this info file keen you use you want use works you find otis directory you check permission granted and stipulations permission such free copy publication full address credit you will find this file for image series images artists directory artists name permission isn explicitly you contact artist for info email cwis unomaha edu and contact artist for you give you contact information you use permitted work courteous artist perhaps even send free copy such compensation for files naming images names your files dos format that means filename jpg gif characters use initials artist digit code for series images series number leonardo devinci mechanical drawing ldmek gif ldmek jpg ldmech gif etc keeping names characters assures that filename will remain intact systems creating image files creating image files include your name below picture this people reference case contact you you want include title address information you people hmmm that for guidelines will added needed your input expected disclaimer otis project connection church otis sumerian deity followers pope priest ezine administrator sacrifices and donations disclaimer otis project for distribution original image files files will public large form mass media that unscrupulously use your images for financial gain you permission for that illegal otis takes responsibility for this simple terms rights revert author artist leave image otis give permission for viewed copied and distributed electronically you don want your images distributed don upload leave image otis not giving permission used publication broadcast that incurs profit this includes not limited magazines newsletters clip art software screen printed clothing etc you give specific permission for this sort usage remember operative term stimulate you people that interested this sort thing involved kick booty offer free food cwis unomaha edu sunsite unc edu stastny otis project end process sound news and arts ftp sunsite unc edu pub multimedia pictures otis omaha projects otis email cwis unomaha edu sunsite unc edu
comp.graphics	bus cards bus video card based card will cost can come ram and windows performance
comp.graphics	newsgroup split chris herringshaw tdawson engin umich edu wrote proposed newsgroup split personally not favor this learn awful lot aspects graphics reading this group code hardware algorithms making groups this wate and will result posts week per group kind convenience big forum for discussing aspects graphics feel this curious daemon knowing question getting hell for putting wrong newsgroup phil martin
comp.graphics	sources for shading wanted for shading methods and algorithms you source codes for that lot thomas thomas braun universitaet karlsruhe mail braun iravcl ira uka thomas braun university karlsruhe germany email braun iravcl ira uka ukay dkauni bitnet
comp.graphics	fast polygon routine needed sol surv utas edu stephen quan writes for fast polygon routine used game fast polygon routine draw polygons vga mode game come across fast triangle fill draw routine for mode calling this routine times you fast polygon drawing routine ftp wuarchive wustl edu pub msdos uploads programming copy reupload triangle txt file this and inline assembly source for vga mode triangle drawer another source poly blitter for mode mode sunee uwaterloo rend even faster renderer extensions life hardware dave stampe destiny software dstampe psych toronto edu cpu wetware dstampe sunee uwaterloo techno psychologist psycho engineer
comp.graphics	day graphics composites seminar sampe ncga university akron and nasa lewis research center sponsoring computers and composites day seminar devoted practical applications computer workstations for efficient processing design and manufacture composites university akron akron ohio speakers advancement graphics visualization jay horowitz nasa integrated product development michael cowen network workstations sikorski aircraft structural analysis brian fite nasa stereolithography jason williams penn state erie molecular and physical modeling vassilios galiatsato polymer curing university akron process modeling polymer matrix composites ram upadhyay corporate registration fees advance site includes box lunch contact gary roberts nasa lewis research center write sampe regional seminar gary roberts nasa lewis research center brookpark cleveland ohio email and gary chris johnston materials engineer nasa lewis research center internet chris sarah lerc nasa gov brookpark cleveland usa resistance futile
comp.graphics	ray tracing spline surfaces net due investigation study article peterson ray tracing general splines proc acm mountain regional conference april didn find library register access this paper knowing library containing proceedings preferrably germany appreciated lot joerg haber joerg haber haberj mathematik muenchen mathematisches institut muenchen
comp.graphics	hitatchi raster format hrf shop package called cadcore good scan and subsequently vectorize original maps into digital maps problem that once raster file loaded into cadcore package header added hrf file makes unreadable supplied converter ship altered raster images for use workstations questions hitachi format this format can recognize precisely strip strongly suspect that compressed format not for strip offending header unix packages that read and recognize hrf nice find sort hrftopbm converter searched ftp sites graphics formats documentation luck you knwo email
comp.graphics	windows bmp sun raster converter bmp format that xview can handle this converter run unix looked faq and downloaded packages had luck advance echen burn washington edu
comp.graphics	cview answers article moscom moscom matthew zenkar writes cyberspace buddha wixer bga wrote renew blade stack urc tue rene walter writes places temp files places current directory beg differ this point batch file use launch cview dir cview resides and invokes time crash cview byte temp file found root dir drive cview posted this cview expert apparently thought knew matthew zenkar moscom talking colorview for dos version and writes temp files current directory versions admit that don assuming your expert referenced talking version that correct colorview for unix discussed mixed confused befuddled genuinely and curious uncle fester god god gigolos god gets god giraffes god god politics thester nyx edu god good laugh
comp.graphics	photoshop for windows for comments people used heard photoshop for windows good compare mac version lot bugs heard windows version fine tuning comments greatly appreciated you andre boisvert beaver rot
comp.graphics	graphics libraries interested graphics library will design team write graphics software for unix workstations and portable eventually this software will moved microsoft windows opinion that good api hooks pex underneath prove portable experience figaro form tgs hoops ithaca software comments claye hart claye hart georgia institute technology atlanta georgia decvax hplabs ncar purdue rutgers gatech prism internet claye hart gtri gatech edu
comp.graphics	scf files needed demo disk that view made rix softworks files two diskette set end scf demo vga resolution colors don spatial resolution problem run demo screen two black bars that cut across horizontally screen top and bottom screen bars inch wide this demo animation part running fine second problem can find graphics program that will open and display files couple image conversion programs mention scf files system clone diamond speedstar sony monitor suggestions you castro tlc
comp.graphics	question video projector setting video aid for computer room for teacher share display class people video projector sets and large monitor presentations told that ways connect video projector composite rgb can explain difference and likely costs reply inetnet mail account posting bulletin sparc nuc edu telnet kermit for windows tim chen
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance silly binary and forget that answer question life universe and that quote douglas adams round question not discovered mark cartwright snp university texas austin computation center graphics facility markc emx utexas edu markc sirius utexas edu markc hermes chpc utexas edu asel error never doubt this situation gravity refund
comp.graphics	for wmf converter for leads source good windows meta file converter interpreter this for use windows environment sources preferred not requirement reply address below david buchholz internet buck ileaf product manager uunet leafusa buck interleaf inc voice
comp.graphics	wanted super projector sounds for super projector sounds for sale send email name brand condition projector and price for sale kimd rpi edu sound capability danny kimd rpi edu
comp.graphics	coreldraw bitmap scodal aware coreldraw exports scodal version quite apart hassles radial fills version revb you export scodal bitmap image included drawing will cannot export scodal bitmap version this ears temporal images make product called filmpak converts autocad plots scodal postscript scodal and gif scodal costs and wondering that bitmap scodal part tad cheaper jeff lyall inst geo nuc sci lower hutt zealand
comp.graphics	specs info apple quicktime add sciences sdsu edu james murray writes specs verbose interpretation specs for quicktime technical articles magazines and references books nice specs format usable unix dos system can quicktime stuff ftp apple present format apple released quicktime volume inside macintosh series bookstore reasonable technical stock bill jones billj beowulf ingr
comp.graphics	image analysis for for image analysis software running dos windows analyze tiff similar files generate histograms patterns etc appreciated fourie joubert department biochemistry university pretoria bio navi
comp.graphics	sources for shading wanted article innldi irau ira uka braun irav ira uka thomas braun writes for shading methods and algorithms you source codes for that illumination and color computer generated imagery roy hall contains source for famous illumination models including bouknight phong blinn whitted and hall illumination models you want introduction shading you book writing raytracer edited glassner book procedural elements for computer graphics rogers good reference source for code book net you check nic funet site closer you carrying graphics related stuff hope this you asking for torgeir veimo studying university bergen gona wave freak flag high jimi hendrix and day police
comp.graphics	cview answers cyberspace buddha wixer bga wrote renew blade stack urc tue rene walter writes places temp files places current directory beg differ this point batch file use launch cview dir cview resides and invokes time crash cview byte temp file found root dir drive cview this posted that cview root directory drive cview since trouble reading large files floppy suspect that root directory drive image files matthew zenkar moscom
comp.graphics	newsgroup split haven this thread appologies this mentioned comp graphics kaveh kardan kardank ere umontreal
comp.graphics	fast wireframe graphics article columbia edu ykim columbia edu yong kim writes working program display wireframe models user arbitrarily change viewing parameters wireframe objects dynamic attributes that can move user exploring wireframe world don you phigs pex lib yeh usc
comp.graphics	detecting double points bezier curves article almaden ibm capelli vnet ibm ron capelli writes oeinck waterland wlink ferdinand oeinck writes for information detecting and calculating double point and cusp bezier curve maureen stone and tony derose geometric characterization parametric cubic curves acm tog vol july used that reference and found that needed original tech report maureen stone and tony derose characterizing cubic bezier curves xerox edl december this report can obtained for free xerox corporation palo alto research center coyote hill road palo alto california tog paper good this tech report had interesting details john
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance scgu mentor purdue edu nova purdue edu allen writes spec since quoted last posting gripe tiff that complicated and infinitely easier write read not use library for reading writing tiff files good minutes start your app martin martin preston preston manchester computer graphics computer graphics unit manchester computing centre university manchester load balls manchester phone
comp.graphics	diamond stelth good market for bit graphics card for isa bus and wondering had comments good bad diamond stealth
comp.graphics	view pov files edward nobles ednobles sacam oren ortn edu wrote view tga files created povray diamond speedstar video board not can convert jpeg cjpeg and view cview that displays bit color want darn things real color ati ultra pro card and found that easiest view true color images windows drivers and winjpeg photofinish windows solution love hear dane
comp.graphics	ati gup and graphics wkshop win ati graph ultra pro vlb megs and small question graphics workshop for windows exit current driver can handle colors color mode this driver problem gws error driver win correctly states that can display colors switch bit another question viewers that support this card windows viewers appreciated
comp.graphics	photoshop for windows article uhim jfq rot beaver rot andre boivert writes for comments people used heard photoshop for windows good compare mac version lot bugs heard windows version fine tuning comments greatly appreciated you andre boisvert beaver rot review mac and windows versions week info world this week that windows version considerably slower mac comparison photostyler and photoshop for windows david david farley university chicago library east street jrl dgf midway uchicago edu chicago illinois
comp.graphics	targa format text file convert targa similar bit picture into list values and convert back targa operations ixels codes targa pixel pixel etc can this explain bit data ored targa file and stored bit targas
comp.graphics	call for presentations navy sciviz seminar call for presentations navy scientific visualization and virtual reality seminar tuesday june carderock division naval surface warfare center david taylor research center bethesda maryland sponsor ness navy engineering software system sponsoring day navy scientific visualization and virtual reality seminar purpose seminar present and exchange information for navy related scientific visualization and virtual reality programs research developments and applications presentations presentations solicited aspects navy related scientific visualization and virtual reality current work works progress and proposed work navy organizations will considered types presentations regular presentation minutes length short presentation minutes length video presentation stand alone videotape author not attend seminar scientific visualization virtual reality demonstration byoh accepted presentations will not published proceedings viewgraphs and materials will reproduced for seminar attendees abstracts authors submit page abstract and videotape robert lipman naval surface warfare center carderock division code bethesda maryland voice fax mail lipman oasys navy mil authors include type presentation affiliations addresses telephone and fax numbers and addresses multi author papers designate point contact deadlines abstact submission deadline april notification acceptance will materials for reproduction received june for information contact robert lipman address distribute widely robert lipman internet lipman oasys navy mil david taylor model basin cdnswc lip ocean navy mil computational signatures and voicenet structures group code factsnet bethesda maryland phishnet stockings long legs sixth sick shiek sixth sheep sick
comp.graphics	newsgroup split proposed newsgroup split personally not favor this learn awful lot aspects graphics reading this group code hardware algorithms making groups this wate and will result posts week per group kind convenience big forum for discussing aspects graphics feel this curious disagree you learn amount reading split groups and make things easier for omnivorous waste creating news groups bit shuffling problem posts per week per group spend time this david
comp.graphics	jpeg file format find description jpg file format specifically jpg file can find height and width image and perhaps even number colors used suggestions peter peterbak microsoft this that compuserve nothing ger
comp.graphics	recommend graphics library for mac article john shepardson esh moose slac stanford edu john shepardson esh qmail slac stanford edu john shepardson writes can you offer recommendations graphics fantastic programmers package for years that advertised and apparently called graphic tools written mark owen micro system options seattle reviewed year ago and awed capabilities includes tons code for aspects mac programming including offscreen graphics zbuffering bit graphics database for representing graphical objects and written mpw and hypercard and code highly reusable last time checked price worth talked mark and faxed literature wasn helpful list routine names bsplinesurface drawstring names product info sheet that explained package capabilities found review april mactutor good package current price
comp.graphics	for radon radon transform that send accepted for lot music ftp sounds sdsu edu cat file dev audio library catalog telnet bison acsu buffalo edu doubt xarchie xgopher xwais
comp.graphics	ray tracer for dos article cqiinnje srvr engin umich edu tdawson llullaillaco engin umich edu chris herringshaw writes for repeat this request good free shareware program can create ray traces and save bit mapped files such thing advance daemon books published books that come source code floppies programming dimensions graphics ray traycing and animation christopher watkins and larry sharp photorealism and ray tracing christopher watkins stephen coy and mark finlay book and great intro ray tracing and animation programs disk compiled and ready run glanced second book appears good hope this helps mark larsen markl hunan rastek this unit bad motivator luke star wars
comp.graphics	color pict spinning earth estop conrad appstate edu acs writes this wrong place post this crusing net earlier this year and called color pict spinning earth assuming animation sequence earth rotation revolution mixed time found sysem not even support color graphics didn bother pict fairly nice system and find pict can post mail advance eric estop conrad appstate edu likewise for time hear beem for this for past months patrick hew year science engineering university western australia phew tartarus uwa edu phew mackerel uwa edu
comp.graphics	cornerstone dualpage driver wanted for window driver for cornerstone dualpage cornerstone technology inc video card that for info nis nis kelder estonian biocentre tkelder kask ebc
comp.graphics	newsgroup split article fox apr graphics nyu edu fox graphics nyu edu david fox writes proposed newsgroup split personally not favor this learn awful lot aspects graphics reading this group code hardware algorithms making groups this wate and will result posts week per group kind convenience big forum for discussing aspects graphics feel this curious disagree you learn amount reading split groups and make things easier for omnivorous waste creating news groups bit shuffling problem posts per week per group spend time this shouldn size newsgroup issue this covered comp grahpics animation traffic per day articles extremely heavy day this group for months and don recall such flood posts that split warranted cents mitch jmcocker eos ncsu edu doth render knoweth frustration
comp.graphics	scf files needed tlc writes second problem can find graphics program that will open and display files couple image conversion programs mention scf files rix files extension sci and scf raw file color palette bytes kind header name rix bytes unknown stuff you bytes palette info for colors rgb and you picture raw format you dont make viewer this description you can vpic read files regards thomas
comp.graphics	conversion pic format files hpgl files can conversion pic format files hpgl files question follows convert files that generated pic preprocessor format into hpgl format suitable for sending plotter hardware involved ibm risc running aix this and software involved cost problems regards dani cimad consultants antwerp belgium dani cimad
comp.graphics	hijaak heard impressive things hijakk for windows use shareware program called graphics workshop kinds things will hijaak that shareware programs will not your experience hijaak programs that email you can wayne haston haston utkvx utk edu
comp.graphics	graphics libraries experience figaro form tgs hoops ithaca software comments couple years ago comparison two products this changed phigs implementation figaro fine phigs personally hate phigs find low level dislike structure editing find impossible phigs found hoops system that full featured and easy use support rendering methods software hardware support documentation good and easily portable systems happy elaborate you specific questions lookin bill wlm wisdom attmail phone
comp.graphics	canon copier printer postscript questions printer model and specification canon clc color laser copier ipu unit postscript intelligent processing unit recently purchased expensive and nice color copier printer want print sgi iris network copier printer parallel and scsi interface configured printer system parallel interface and can print postscript files printer can print rgb files turn converted postscript internal filter canon clc publication quality printer quality postscript printouts acceptable create postscript files variaty programs such showcase and tops convert postscript tops and use option halftone screen density default output that acceptable note that starting screen image rgb image format and translating image into postscript suspect that use scsi interface higher quality pictures not purchased software that drives printer scsi port knowledge this software and not come warranty management not want spend this money assurance that product will work questions net this printer you scsi parallel port quality printouts create high quality postscript printouts limiting component postscript language postscript interpretor printer big question can software drive scsi port for this printer email directly don not read news regular basis will post summary advance mail scott ncifcrf gov phone title systems manager analyst
comp.graphics	ray tracing pictures for interested ray traced pictures nice example alt binaries pictures misc file called poolball gif shows pooltable poolballs resolution colours tga bit version bit big post picture created pov ray enjoy gerco cgschot ruu gerco schot cgschot ruu
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance ulrich galki toppoint wrote suggestions forty two six times
comp.graphics	display software for displaying surfaces xlib and package internet will work for stand alone package providing similar functions xprism khoros numerous libraries required for want recompile and run platforms sgis unix will appreciated demetrios sapounas tel nswc fax dahlgren usa email aris nswc navy mil
comp.graphics	for wmf converter buck ileaf david buchholz writes for leads source good windows meta file converter interpreter this for use windows environment sources preferred not requirement reply address below related topic searching success for specification enhanced metafile format original wmf format graphics file formats levine info bit version pointers eric sink spyglass earth humans ability woodfield drive content bad situations savoy and vice versa sink uiuc edu
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance silly mark cartwright markc emx utexas edu wrote binary and forget that answer question life universe and that quote douglas adams round question not discovered discovered sort question times arthur dent objected that this factually inaccurate effort discover question begun this last effort likely longer lifespan universe fact lifespans mark wilson online computer systems email address mark ocsmd ocs this file disclaims signed signature mean
comp.graphics	wanted matrox driver windows driver for matrox svga card moment windows runs mode you driver for this card send oemsetup inf bockamp informatik muenchen florian bockamp bockamp informatik muenchen ooo ooo not bug undocumented feature
comp.graphics	fixed point math library written library class for fixed point math good articles pretty this wheels invent moment typing call jack robotics jpl nasa gov jack morrison jet propulsion lab oak grove pasadena
comp.graphics	needed algorithms for object recognition friend working and object recognition for references describing algorithms subject areas thresholding edge segmentation marr hildreth sobel operator chain codes thinning skeletonising willing post algorithm that implemented demonstrates topics appreciated post replies mail address requested will post summary newsgroup couple weeks advance for replies james city
comp.graphics	hijaak haston donald wayne haston utkvx utk edu wrote use shareware program called graphics workshop kinds things will hijaak that shareware programs will not use graphic workshop and differences that that hijaak screen capture capabilities and acn convert couple file formats don specifically april issue magazine test twelve selling image capture convert utilities including hijaak tmc tmc spartan brocku
comp.graphics	adobe photo shop type software for unix motif platforms searching for quality image enhancement and manipulation package for unix motif platforms that comparable adobe photo shop for mac not find and information such products you provide interested software that runs sun workstations and not require special add hardware interested solutions you wayne wayne michael wdm world std
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance article prestonm man prestonm man martin preston writes not use library for reading writing tiff files good minutes start your app use whenever tiff and works that not point philosophically opposed complexity this complexity led programs poor tiff writers making bizarre files programs inability load tiff images save and general inability interchange images environments despite fact understand tiff not worried assholes had big trouble misuse and abuse tiff years and chalk immense and unnecessary complexity format words tiff spec appendix page capitalized emphasis mine problem this sort success that tiff designed powerful and flexible expense simplicity takes fair amount effort handle options defined this specification application complete job and that you can that you will import tiff image since image generating applications program worse applications can read tiff image that means won that deal want images trapped that format don and agrees reasoning not that
comp.graphics	marching cubs wondering knew mac implementation marching cubes algorithm that will output individual faces such application source code that modify implement algorithm and individual faces advance sincerly tracy tracy abildskov phone fax address brigham young university department psychology mail abild bert byu edu provo usa
comp.graphics	epson hpgl pen plotter pens epson pen plotter forsale emulates not option board that emulation serial interface hardware handshake pens for follows packs black oil based packs red green blue and black pens packs aqueous black packs aqueous blue black pack aqueous multi color pens and assorted packaged pens colored plotter used tested windows drivers for and and worked fine accepts sized paper figure that plotter worth and pens worth another thing you won purchase pens for quite packaged pens sealed fresh rest capped and function willing sell pens seperate interested selling laserjet and don color offer chert chert pellett chert dungeon cirr chert dungeon lonestar org panic cat nibbling power cord
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance silly mark wilson mark ocsmd ocs wrote mark cartwright markc emx utexas edu wrote binary and forget that answer question life universe and question not discovered discovered sort question times read and special prize bottom amaze your friends and gain respect your peers that you can carry long number original question meaning life universe and and answer generated deep thought largest computer created deep thought realized that understand answer question didn build largest computer named earth figure real question this background knowledge for bear sec arthur pulled scrabble tiles bag spelled times six not clear that monkey man had question brain since that lady diner vaporized moments that answer hand marvin answer dent brain lets presume correct times six forty two base chew that for awhile chris russell custom software networks case tools and consulting adaptive solutions sun sparc sgi iris apollo macintosh internet crussell netcom gte mail box diamond bar
comp.graphics	sphere points another method based sqyares estimation sphere equation parameters points spherical surface radius and center can written this equation can rewritten into form approximate left hand part for datapoints determine parameters minimise average error numerical recipes can found algorithms solve parameters fitting sphere will center radius sqrt last will this solve you sphere estination problem for situations quick van rijt rytg fel tno
comp.graphics	polygon fill routine needed for polygon fill routine fill simple sided polygons can this routine saving reinventing time advance rao
comp.graphics	disney animation can disney animation software package note followup line this not for for colleague
comp.graphics	rumours read issue wired magazine long article hype noticed that article talks designers and great never show pictures output pictures that can understand kirk membry age age industry rutgers viamar kmembry alexander rodchenko
comp.graphics	studio differences previous version fombaron marc fombaron ufrima imag wrote significant differences and you for helping recall differences set parameters defaults changed slightly home and you isn warrant upgrading douginoz
comp.graphics	cview answers ray knight rknight stiatl salestech wrote mik uky edu bryan williams writes majority users not readding floppy picture roms and use cview fast and works can moron lacked foresight create temp file program path not current didrectory flexible create temp files check for temp tmp environment variable and create files drive and directory pointedto variable this pretty standard for dos windows and applications cview not pay attention temp environment variable matthew zenkar moscom
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance martin preston prestonm man wrote scgu mentor purdue edu nova purdue edu allen writes spec since quoted last posting gripe tiff that complicated and infinitely easier write read not use library for reading writing tiff files good minutes start your app martin name this library for tiff copy can archie for don filename for
comp.graphics	info mail file format file format for mail file formats pcx based twist page multi page fax will come readable pages disappear format proprietary clues give email faxes secretary order unscrambled want filter mail come mail nice tonyo master cna tek
comp.graphics	medical images gopher days back posted info gopher site you search for medical graphics etc repost mail copy greatly mark mark morley unix sun manager net morley camosun camosun college interurban campus tel interurban road room tech fax victoria canada
comp.graphics	morphing keywords for morphing programs for dec looked for program called dmorph archie not find found progrmam call morpho grayscale images
comp.graphics	graphics driver standards researcher collecting electical impulses human heart complex analog digital system designed and inputting this information into eisa bus vectra computer running dos and phar lap dos extender want purchase high performance video card for modeling aware company called matrox concerned getting married company and video routine library hope flexibility choose card manufacturers standard video driver write generic code code that easily moved cards computer operating systems future hope information greatly appreciated respond directly internet mail raymaker bcm tmc edu
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance silly article geraldo utexas edu mark cartwright markc emx utexas edu writes binary and forget that answer question life universe and that quote douglas adams round question not discovered question revealed base system chuck divine
comp.graphics	animation station for information animation stations that market price station can type workstation doesnt matter mac sgi etc you use bought looked can suggest your dream machine mail your configurations type station mac etc expandibilty machine software that can run vtr controller and vtr deck model name vendors names and numbers advance ken eyler eylerken washington edu evergreen state college
comp.graphics	xlib and bit displays info needed name rahul and usu logan query workstation series running true color bit color monitor connected this machine capability display colors max million since monitor true color can million time que facility function call that will enable rgb combination and screen xstorecolor set pallette max colors que not can display true color image true color monitor xlib function calls generating ray traced images and colors painful limit facility display true color images will generating true color system color quantification can obliged rahul usu edu
comp.graphics	tiff tiff programs for ibm scanner works into tiff and can view cshow programs read errors basic tiff jpeg gif pcx bmp etc for time email post acceptable joshuaf that geiger scan dookie tiff
comp.graphics	imagine for impulse shipping imagine for close amiga imagine terms features roland chia air cooled email kruzifix netcom free falling voice carbon unit
comp.graphics	screen capture cymk converter small program extract image vga color screen and store that image tiff file insert image into sales brochure printed color mac use photoshop separate image into eps files and pull into quark express printed film lintronix service bureau don mac windows this type operation windows environment separation programs net good page layout program that into advance shmuel einstein shmuel einstein shmuel einstein associates inc wilshire blvd suite beverly hills fax
comp.graphics	for dos precompiled version for dos prefereably for
comp.graphics	virtual reality for cheap article apr mfltd sts mfltd steve sherwood writes multiverse work built svr mips svr and sun sparcstation bugs dogfight and dactyl simply nothing fixing bug variable defined twice two modules needed setting static client core dumped steve extn sts mfltd uunet mfocus sts micro focus pariah name west street living blaze obscurity rum ruff splat newbury courage survive day berkshire england bort etry nfluence large hammer built motif machine works fine added objects into dogfight used flying this easy cool brian
comp.graphics	animation studio file format file format for autodesk animation studio gary respond email hell time keeping news
comp.graphics	ray tracer for dos article cqiinnje srvr engin umich edu tdawson llullaillaco engin umich edu chris herringshaw wrote for repeat this request good free shareware program can create ray traces and save bit mapped files such thing advance daemon ppppp ooooo persistance vision raytracer ppppp ooooo archie and wuarchive graphics type directories freeware kai howells kai postoffice utas edu mortimer ave town tas australia
comp.graphics	sigkids research showcase call sigkids call for participation sigkids research showcase learning hip pushing edge education computer graphics and technologies sigkids research showcase will provide siggraph attendees latest applying computer technology form state art educational experiences hop submit works converge disciplines education and computer technology categories and domains include not limited interactive stand alone applications run demonstrations and tutorials museum installations groupware collaborative systems hypermedia virtual reality scientific visualization interactive art microworlds deadlines submissions due submit diane schwartz siggraph sigkids committee institute for learning sciences maple avenue suite evanston illinois fax schwartz ils nwu edu electronic submission form schwartz ils nwu edu submit fill permission use form page siggraph call for participation send email schwartz ils nwu edu faxed you fill sigkids research showcase submission form below send abstract description submission approximately words ways send hard copies diane schwartz surface mail address fax copy diane schwartz email copy diane schwartz schwartz ils nwu edu explain project additional support material such videotapes and slides that will assist selection committee reaching decision highly reccommended fax and email submissions acceptable send your submission material form surface mail email fax exception this additional support material surface mail note due limited budget submitter chooses dedicated machine for work will pay rental fees for hardware personally note contributors for united states aware customs and carrier delays and send submissions early cut acm siggraph sigkids research showcase entry form copy this form accompany each proposal you submit send sigkids research showcase entries diane schwartz siggraph sigkids committee institute for learning sciences maple avenue suite evanston illinois fax schwartz ils nwu edu print legibly contact information name company address city state postal code country daytime phone evening phone fax email additional information title theme piece participant name collaborator name hardware platform and periferals needed supplied participant dedicated machine note due limited budget participant pay rental fees for dedicated hardware assistance software statement significance work words medium describe virtual reality virtual sculpture interactive multimedia installation etc special requirements physical description power dimensions authorization permission use visual and audio event that materials used acm siggraph sigkids research showcase entry work individuals organizations including copyrighted musical compositions excerpts thereof understand that responsibility secure permissions and liscenses piece contains images audio video components rights and permissions use images audio video components piece conference presentation release signing this form grant siggraph permission piece for sigkids research showcase maintain copyright work and will receive full credit wherever this work used conference promotional material grant acm siggraph use slides for conference and organization publicity and future this includes usage posters brochures catalogs promotional items media broadcast exchange siggraph full author artist credit information promotional material grant acm siggraph permission use slides work for conference and organization publicity signature date acm siggraph makes attempt respect and protect intellectual property rights people and organizations preparing material for siggraph conferences this entry form explains siggraph will make material and requires you acknowledge that you permission use this material this involve seeking clearance your employer loaned you material such videotapes and slides this form helps prevent situations siggraph presentations include material permission that lead complaints even legal action this form asks you grant siggraph distribute your work you maintain copyright slide sets and catalogs publications for you grant siggraph nonexclusive worldwide distribution rights siggraph marks each item publications proper copyright notice informs viewers that items not copied reproduced broadcast used for commercial purposes explicit permission indivicual copyright owners addition this form asks acm siggraph use your materials for conference and organizational promotional material exchange for full author artist credit information
comp.graphics	wanted playmation info folks copy playmation willing sell love not for retail you moved bigger imagine love buy your table scraps selling can recommend place buy playmation mail order for cheap advance mark mark marino omar osf org uunet osf omar open software foundation cambridge center cambridge
comp.graphics	marching cubs this subject and parade wrigley field chicago marc cooper graphics programmer sverdrup tech child fsmarc lerc nasa gov imaginary playmate nasa lewis research center brookpark tom robbins cleveland even cowgirls blues disclaimer mine mine duck
comp.graphics	pov file constructor for unix getting into povray and wondering graphic package that outputs pov files appreciated ish craig didn you can prove ccc ccc chumphre comp vuw
comp.graphics	radiosity amann iam unibe stephan amann writes article yuma acns colostate edu longs lance colostate edu xia zhao writes article apr aragorn unibe you write working radiosity package written make public domain announce minute finished that good news bad news another months finish note that radiosity packages resource listing subject ftp list nick nick nikolaos fotis national technical univ athens greece home esperidon internet nfotis theseas ntua halandri mcsun ariadne theseas nfotis athens greece fax usenet editor comp graphics resource listing and soc culture greece faq ntua acm student chapter chair organizing small conference comp graphics call you interested participate nick nikolaos fotis national technical univ athens greece home esperidon internet nfotis theseas ntua halandri mcsun ariadne theseas nfotis athens greece fax
comp.graphics	finding equally spaced points sphere that this discussed time didn teselate sphere kind soul code alg that finally decided recall nice iterative subdivision meathod appreciative thomas deweese deweeset rdrc rpi edu
comp.graphics	grayscale printer you considered apple laserwriter iig use for image printing
comp.graphics	advice video system buy this question covered apologize information fast department large sum money install video system network ibm workstations this not area expertise can offer advice system based vhs video will write video frame frame tape for play back real time for visualization physics problems can hardware work for system support software needed nothing sophisticated since software use for visualization written email replies don read this group for your newman department physics cornell university newmme helios cornell edu
comp.graphics	tiff program called graphic workshop you can ftp wuarchive file msdos graphics directory and called grfwk zip this program everthing you tmc tmc spartan brocku
comp.graphics	sun ipx root window display background picture article apr osi scott osi scott fleming writes netters fairly weak question netland looked last faq for comp graphics didn find answer post short question display raster files gif files iff tiff images that root window background sun ipc openwindows sun that helps compiled pov for sun and display work background tile for information that you provide good day scott fleming osi kudo people provided pov great scott not this helpful use use sun ipcs and ipxs and works fine can display good number ways root put background automatically login hope this helps jason weiler weilej rpi edu btw anonymous ftp archie fer
comp.graphics	detecting double points bezier curves renner adobe john renner writes article almaden ibm capelli vnet ibm ron oeinck waterland wlink ferdinand oeinck writes for information detecting and calculating double point and cusp bezier curve maureen stone and tony derose geometric characterization parametric cubic curves acm tog vol july used that reference and found that needed original tech report maureen stone and tony derose characterizing cubic bezier curves xerox edl december replied original question implemented ideas article and satisfied results needed for bezier curve approximation routine cases generating offset curves loops can occur fast method detecting generation curve loop not follow article strictly check fourth control point lies loop area bounded two parabolas and ellips complicated enlarged loop area and surrounded for straight lines check simple and fast and approximation routine never outputs intersecting bezier curves ferdinand
comp.graphics	dregistere for dos pascal perret article apr eicn etna wrote site omnigate clarkson edu aliases grape ecs clarkson edu number pub msdos djgpp pub zip you read answer kevin martin write answer funny thing internet idea that windows pcs you and used and that good email ryanph mrl dsto gov common abbreviation for quarterdeck corporation desqview software not used reading blurbs that quarterdeck sounds pretty great multiple dos machines that requiring ram pre emptive multi tasking network computing proper windows client server application this means that dos program can used windows computers your network and that windows programs can used your computer not version unix effectively unix features and you will compile unix type programs djgpp gnu compilers advertise regularly major computing and programming magazines internet support online support qdeck pascal perret perret eicn etna hope that this helps wanting phil ryan melbourne australia
comp.graphics	for tseng vesa drivers this msg net copy dam for vpic comes updated vesa drivers for almost card vesa level and tseng bit nice affair driver hope bye
comp.graphics	make vga shades routine that color rgb attributes vga adapter doesn work mode that specifically hex obscure mode change zillions colors shade greyscale not correct memory address for pointer starting address can find you john kondis eapu orion oac uci edu
comp.graphics	photoshop for windows article apr midway uchicago edu dgf quads uchicago edu david farley writes article uhim jfq rot beaver rot andre boivert writes for comments people used heard photoshop for windows good compare mac version lot bugs heard windows version fine tuning comments greatly appreciated you andre boisvert beaver rot review mac and windows versions week info world this week that windows version considerably slower mac comparison photostyler and photoshop for windows david don that used photoshop and quadra roughly equal faster systems running bit color and had amount ram megs quadra had photoshop accelerators
comp.graphics	studio differences previous version article apr hparc aus doug hparc aus doug parsons writes fombaron marc fombaron ufrima imag wrote significant differences and you for helping recall differences set parameters defaults changed slightly home and you isn warrant upgrading douginoz wrong major improvements for and use ipas routines for studio increased speed anywhere depending you use yost group ipas routines that you can buy separate studio package require use slow
comp.graphics	true color display pov hallo pov renderers bocax card pov displaying true colors rendering options and univesa driver happens isn correct can
comp.graphics	fractal compression can give book reference title give start fractal image compression technique helps will appreciated inu lindblat monash edu inu aurora monash edu
comp.graphics	developable surface netters investigations developable surface can familiar this topic give information sources can find infomation developable surface for your abel hkuxa hku
comp.graphics	virtual reality for cheap article plk mil ridout bink plk mil brian ridout writes article apr mfltd sts mfltd steve sherwood writes multiverse work built svr mips svr and sun sparcstation bugs dogfight and dactyl simply nothing fixing bug variable defined twice two modules needed setting static client core dumped steve extn sts mfltd uunet mfocus sts micro focus pariah name west street living blaze obscurity rum ruff splat newbury courage survive day berkshire england bort etry nfluence large hammer built motif machine works fine added objects into dogfight used flying this easy cool brian compiler forgiving that you mixed cobol pascal compiler wouldn complain steve extn sts mfltd uunet mfocus sts micro focus pariah name west street living blaze obscurity rum ruff splat newbury courage survive day berkshire england bort etry nfluence large hammer
comp.graphics	alias phone number wanted phone number for alias toll free number preferred charles boesel diablo creative pro for and con cboesel diablo holonet net opposite progress pager congress
comp.graphics	postscript drawing prog article apr informatik muenchen comp graphics gnuplot comp graphics rdd uts ipp garching mpg reinhard drube writes article ecnn mentor purdue edu nish chem purdue edu nishantha writes drawing utility that can used manipulate postscript files specifically interested drawing lines boxes and sort postscript contour plots xfig and impressed features use since cannot use postscript files input for programme utility that converts postscript xfig format greatly appreciated nishantha you checked adobe illustrator unix versions for depending your platform two unix versions for mach and for irix sgi such for sun sparcstation don for ttyl charles boesel diablo creative pro for and con cboesel diablo holonet net opposite progress pager congress
comp.graphics	illustrator autotrace poorly figure adobe illustrator auto trace exactly screen misses edges templates pixels resulting images that useless exact tracing not approximate adjusting freehand tolerances autotrace tolerances doesn suggestions charles boesel diablo creative pro for and con cboesel diablo holonet net opposite progress pager congress
comp.graphics	marchin cubes polygon reduction algorithm for marching cube surfaces algirithm schroeder siggraph for hints hugs and kisses erwin ooo ooo erwin keeve adress peter welter platz cologne germany dept computergraphics phone computeranimation fax academy media arts cologne email keeve khm uni koeln
comp.graphics	disp posted disp zip alt binaries pictures utilities you distribute this program freely for commercial use fee gained warranty author not responsible for damage caused this program important since version fix bugs file management system file displaying improve file management system user friendly fix bug xpm version reading fix bugs targa reading writng fix bug gem img reading add support for pcx and gem img writing auto skip macbinary header introduction this program can you read write and display images formats you special effects rotation dithering image main purpose you convert image formts include simple file management system support slide show limit image size this program supports bits display you want use hicolor truecolor you vesa driver you want modify video driver read section hardware requirement msdos higher min amount ram bytes memory will work recommend min bytes for performance hard disk for swapping virtual memory description borrowed djgpp supported wares extended memory expanded vcpi disk space used for swapping supervga color mode xms vdisk memory allocation strategies vcpi programs such qemm desqview and max unsupported dpmi microsoft windows features emulator bit unix ish environment flat memory model svga graphics installation video drivers emu and exe borrowed djgpp you use western digital vga chips read readme this exe modified version for vesa and completely compatible original version people report that this exe not compatible djgpp programs system you encounter this problem don put exe search path read runme bat for run this program you choose xxxxx grn video driver add environment for example driver xxxxx xxxxx grn you don add emu xxxxx emu environment for example driver xxxxx xxxxx grd emu xxxxx emu notes test grn grn and vesa grn drivers not tested modified grn support bits display you don use vesa driver grn doesn work vesa grn for want use hicolor truecolor display use vesa grn users you can find vesa bios driver wuarchive wustl edu mirrors msdos graphics godzilla cgl rmit kjb mgl command line switch usage display display initial display type sort sort method display type svga default hicolor truecolor sort method name ext function key change disk drive ctrl ctrl change disk drive change filename mask match doc change parameters effects picture flip rotate make directory tag file tag group files match doc tag files untag file untag group files match doc untag files ins change display type read screen menu move file delete file rename file copy file display bytes ascii hex and dec modes display disk free space page move page tab change processing target arrow keys home end page page scroll image home left end page top page bottom screen effect menu left arrow change display type bits slide show escape terminate alt quit program prompting alt reread directory escape abort function and return support format read gif gif japan mag mag japan pic pic sun raster ras jpeg jpg xbm xbm utah rle rle pbm pbm pgm pgm ppm ppm pcx pcx japan mki mki tiff tif targa tga xpm xpm mac paint mac gem img img iff ilbm lbm window bmp bmp qrt ray tracing qrt mac pict pct vis vis pds pds viking vik vicar vic fits fit usenix face fac extensions standard extensions write gif sun raster jpeg xbm pbm pgm ppm tiff targa xpm mac paint ascii laser jet iff ilbm window bmp mac pict vis fits face pcx gem img read write support full color bits grey scale dither and bits image allowed for that format detail initialization set default display type highest display type find allowable screen resolution for grn video driver you run this program you will enter read menu whthin this menu you can press function key you move copy files you will enter write menu write menu read menu you change directory header line read menu includes display type number files number tagged files pressing space read menu will you select format use for reading current file pressing return read menu will you reading current file this program will automatically determine format this file procedure check magic number fail check standard extension fail report error pressing read menu will slide show delay time program will wait you hit key escape error occurs program will make beep escape terminate pressing ins read menu will change display type pressing alt read menu will quit program prompting once image file successfully read you will enter screen menu this menu turn you can special effect image pressing return show image graphic mode press return space escape return text mode pressing tab change processing target this program you special effects bit bit image pressing left arrow change display type bits pressing space save current image file dither save black white image bit grey scale save grey image bits full color save color image bits true color save bit image this program will you questions you want write image file questions format dependent finally this program will prompt you filename you want save file another directory current directory press space pressing space you will enter write menu you can change directory you want pressing space this program will prompt you original filename pressing return this program will prompt you selected filename filename bar this program supports bits display this program memory greedy you don memory performance poor you want save bits image gif tiff lzw targa sun raster bmp you want save bits image lossless tiff lzw targa ilbm sun raster for true bits image recommend jpeg for storing bits images even bits images not subroutines fully tested this document not written you problem suggestion comment this program send bicmos nctu edu your suggestion improve this program anonymous ftp this site tech information program user interface and subroutines written jih shin subroutines borrowed and pbmplus dec tiff and jpeg reading writing public domain libraries compiled djgpp you can djgpp package simtel mirror sites for example wuarchive wustl edu mirrors msdos djgpp for thoese want modify video driver grx source code simtel mirror sites for hicolor and truecolor bits colors set bits colors set bits colors set acknowledgment authors and pbmplus for permission use subroutines will authors write tiff and jpeg libraries djgpp can thing jih shin bicmos nctu edu
comp.graphics	pov file constructor for unix article csc james comp vuw craig humphrey comp vuw chumphre writes getting into povray and wondering graphic package that outputs pov files appreciated good modeling package found irit for irit tar converter format pov format postet request for such converter this group response write such program sebastian schmidt ilmenau institut praktische informatik
comp.graphics	video card computer warranty and trident video card starting play surprise surprise exchange for card big question video card high quality and acceptable price tag student budget you advance
comp.graphics	fast polygon routine needed for reason never original post this thread you for fast polygon routines vga you can past mode stuff dobbs this code domain and original articles routines presented dumb vga routines and optimised modex interesting discussion you interested find details issues question home bernard
comp.graphics	postscript drawing prog vma diablo diablo cboesel charles boesel writes article apr informatik muenchen comp graphics gnuplot comp graphics rdd uts ipp garching mpg reinhard drube writes article ecnn mentor purdue edu nish chem purdue edu nishantha writes drawing utility that can used manipulate postscript files specifically interested drawing lines boxes and sort postscript contour plots xfig and impressed features use since cannot use postscript files input for programme utility that converts postscript xfig format greatly appreciated nishantha you checked adobe illustrator unix versions for depending your platform two unix versions for mach and for irix sgi such for sun sparcstation don for you can include postscript epsi files xfig encapsulated postscript info files you can edit postscript file you draw postscript file eps epsi converter eps epsi perl program succes ger timmens ger ruu dcv research group utrecht netherlands tel room fax unquestionably progress average american pays twice taxes wages mencken
comp.graphics	good morphing anims created interesting animations dmorph unable create that remotely realistic this due crappy gif captain kirk and spock bit trekker type pictures use situnayake
comp.graphics	dtp ineed information desk top publishe post graduate courses and email address normal mail advance
comp.graphics	diamond stelth good bought diamond stealth months ago great card multimedia presentations runs graphics and animation full motion video thing can that lacks speed colors qualit and million collors unreal you definitly compromise speed great card for graphics and comes great software not excelerator part used paridise and doesnt faster that thing that loads vesa driver rom startup never had load for links programs that require special vesa drivers startup gromi hintmatt isu edu
comp.graphics	gif aerial maps ftp site for maps preferably aerial photographs
comp.graphics	hidden line removal program posting this for friend for polygon based hidden line removal program can deal input output format perspective views orientation and range public domain hidden line program not locate email replies and will summarize
comp.graphics	sphinx satellite image processing sphinx sphinx user friendly state art image processing and analysis package that runs across spectrum high performance computer platforms operating unix and window system created meet daily research scientists conducting climate investigations satellite data and remote sensing techniques intuitive graphic interface sphinx features interactive interface pop menus and point and click dialog boxes makes image processing and analysis simple and fast this accessible menuing enables you build attractive image layouts quickly providing you flexibility returning main menu conduct image analysis and processing operations image format compatibility smart read write functions sphinx you easily open and save image files variety formats bit integer real data values sphinx reads and writes common tiff and gif formats compresses and decompresses image formats save disk space image analysis processing for image and pixel analysis sphinx package includes assortment processing tools that perform statistical and mathematical filtering operations such fourier transforms convolution product principal component analyses interactive interpreter for algebraic equations and images user manipulate and combine individual data channels interactively standard fortran notation used for formula entry and for trig onometric and transcendental functions satellite spectra orbit analysis sphinx possesses functions simulate satellite signal sensitivity for meteorological satellites meteosat noaa spot etc simulations conducted for selection standard atmospheric and surface conditions and instrument spectral bands geometry model computes solar zenith angles warping orbit simulation and image projection easy external program interfacing sphinx users flexibility integrate externally developed software algorithms for processing and converting satellite observations sphinx exports and imports image files and image parameters external programs special interface functions quick quality presentation sphinx rapidly displays manipulates and enhances high resolution multispectral images and color tables six bit image planes and graphics plane package conveniently combines color images graphics and text generate sharp digital images for articles and reports sphinx and graphics editor complete flexibility for modifying and integrating vector graphics and analysis plots images such histograms and radial graphs package supplies color and gray scale output for standard inkjet and laser printers capabilities sphinx performs image animation external graphics importing mosaic fitting software support development sphinx developed laboratoire optique atmospherique loa universite lille france package received critical feedback and support scientists french national laboratory centre national recherche scientifique cnrs and french space agency centre national etudes spatiales cnes loa sphinx undergoes continued refinement and development meet changing research and advances computer technology package features line supported internet address sphinx loasil citilille questions can answered and version updates provided delay performance tested cnes selected sphinx analyze and process satellite data collected upcoming adeos polder satellite mission today sphinx package use nasa goddard space flight center and widely used french laboratories including centre recherche physique environnement ecole normale superieure laboratoire etudes recherches teledetection spatiale laboratoire meteorologie dynamique test version sphinx loasil citilille anonymous bin sphinx sphinx tar test version output files disable visualisation and graphic functions this sufficient work you interested keeping sphinx send your email and you will receive news package evolution software changing user suggestions will your comments
comp.graphics	diamond stelth good real problem stealth heard that diamond won program proprietary clock stuff linux and bsd won run patrick bridges patrick erc msstate edu
comp.graphics	photoshop for windows article agate berkeley edu aron tikal ced berkeley edu aron bonar writes article apr midway uchicago edu dgf quads uchicago edu david farley writes article uhim jfq rot beaver rot andre boivert writes for comments people used heard photoshop for windows good compare mac version lot bugs heard windows version fine tuning comments greatly appreciated you andre boisvert beaver rot review mac and windows versions week info world this week that windows version considerably slower mac comparison photostyler and photoshop for windows david don that used photoshop and quadra roughly equal faster systems running bit color and had amount ram megs quadra had photoshop accelerators back and looked review claim significant differences manipulating meg test file smaller files two platforms david david farley university chicago library east street jrl dgf midway uchicago edu chicago illinois
comp.graphics	illustrator autotrace poorly article vmcbrt diablo diablo cboesel charles boesel writes figure adobe illustrator auto trace exactly screen misses edges templates pixels resulting images that useless exact tracing not approximate adjusting freehand tolerances autotrace tolerances doesn suggestions charles boesel diablo creative pro for and con cboesel diablo holonet net opposite progress pager congress had exactly problems aldus freehand autotracing features that barely works feels compelled throw guys david farley university chicago library east street jrl dgf midway uchicago edu chicago illinois
comp.graphics	rayshade query interested rayshade managed make chessboard for rayshade knight horse ideas for surface for chesspieces board marble black won work for side ideas for nice surfaces use image command rayshade and heightfield command manual vague this and don craig kolb email address ideas this essential for venture into raytracing post finished chessboard rayshade unix systems fast unix render rayshade program for people loves graphics artistic talent
comp.graphics	interviews graphics package graphics package interviews man pages classes haven documentation can send small example program shows use classes together gratefull
comp.graphics	developable surface article khe hkuxb hku hkuxa hku abel writes netters investigations developable surface can familiar this topic give information sources can find infomation developable surface for your abel hkuxa hku developable surface you can lay roll flat plane require you give cut cylinder cone plane surface patch vanishing gaussian intrinsic curvature singular hessian matrix derivatives for adequate coordinate patch developable technical words developable surface locally isometric plane points sphere earth developable you cut you will not lay flat pieces intrinsic curvature vanishing for details this book differential geometry treats surfaces manifolds carmo book book carmo differential author carmo manfredo title differential geometry curves and surfaces year publisher prentice hall note pages enjoy frederic leymarie leyfre mcrcim mcgill edu mcgill university electrical eng dept mcrcim tel university montreal canada fax
comp.graphics	views isomorphic perspectives working game isometric perspective similar that used populous basically you into room that similar xxxx xxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx good thing this perspective that you can and move dimensions and maintain your peripheral vision since your viewpoint routines can hard coded for vantage case wall two rising edge slope mode run into two problems that readers this and perhaps formulated opinions routines for drawing walls trivial ran packed planar image dismayed jaggies considered anti aliasing routines speed not worth effort artist draw wall skewed assured nice image this burden wall presents problem algorithm used overly distort original decide paper pixels and failed come method for mapping planar crosswise sheared shape and produce line follows slope line directly line line moves line and left pixels line line this fills shape exactly unfilled pixels distortions come perhaps simply draw original bitmap skewed sticky problems this perspective planning hidden plane removal buffering locations stored form for you noticed top lines wall and wall parallel bottom lines this appears optical illusion appears inside cube depending your mood vanishing points this simplifies drawing code for objects don change size move room decided that this approximation alright since small displacements large distance change apparent size object real perspective drawing hopefully context picture chairs floor torches hanging walls will dispell visual ambiguity advance for till time email pinky tamu edu sam inala
comp.graphics	rayshade query article sunvax sun sunvax sun writes for surface for chesspieces board marble black won work for side ideas for nice surfaces brass silver real chessboards that use that material post finished chessboard good place can wait use pov raytracer compatible for your chessboard don you picture not doesn running thrusters leonard mccoy guess you spock that extraordinary james kirk brian smith besmith mosaic uncc edu
comp.graphics	finding equally spaced points sphere article trd rpi edu deweeset ptolemy rdrc rpi edu thomas deweese writes that this discussed time didn teselate sphere kind soul code alg that finally decided recall nice iterative subdivision meathod appreciative andrew graphics gems glassner that collegue mine fiddled bit make deal bizarre problem working time work spl spheres asg feb spl thu mar est include stdio include math define struct point struct double static double radius static double xorg static double yorg static double zorg sphere freq double int freq double double double int pole double northy southy poley double rtheta rtheta ntheta ntheta magicangle double theta thetastart thisy den struct point node pnp struct point struct radius xorg yorg zorg north pole magicangle northy radius sin magicangle southy radius sin magicangle for pole pole pole pole poley radius thisy northy thetastart poley radius thisy southy thetastart for theta thetastart theta theta rtheta theta rtheta theta poley radius cos rtheta thisy radius sin rtheta radius cos rtheta thisy radius sin rtheta pole make ring normals den den sqrt den den radius den den den sqrt den den radius den den den sqrt den den radius den subdivide tri freq body for theta theta theta rtheta theta rtheta theta ntheta theta ntheta theta radius cos rtheta northy radius sin rtheta radius cos rtheta northy radius sin rtheta radius cos ntheta southy radius sin ntheta radius cos ntheta southy radius sin ntheta den den sqrt den den radius den den den sqrt den den radius den den den sqrt den den radius den den den sqrt den den radius den subdivide tri freq subdivide tri freq return define norm register double sqrt subdivide tri struct point struct int struct point struct struct point struct double den den den sqrt den den radius den den den sqrt den den radius den den den sqrt den den radius den subdivide tri subdivide tri subdivide tri subdivide tri norm norm norm nothing special this poly printf xorg yorg zorg printf xorg yorg zorg printf xorg yorg zorg return steve lamont sciviguy spl szechuan ucsd edu san diego microscopy and imaging resource san diego jolla car car bumper strip
comp.graphics	fonts pov article wampyr uow edu wampyr uow edu coronado emmanuel abad writes ray traced scenes mtv rayshade stroked fonts appearing objects image fonts chars had color depth and even textures associated wondering pov noel made attempts write converter that reads adobe type fonts triangulates bevelizes and extrudes result generic object used pov problem stuck that algorithm triangulates arbitrary polygonal shape delaunay limited convex hulls constrained delaunay code example another bartman tga pov selfmade variation this heightfields create picture big text you postscript previewer use this heightfield white black heightfield exactly images white parts open backside close mirror and compound original example object union height field gif abp gif height field gif abp gif scale texture glass translate center rotate rotate upwards scale scale bigger and thicker translate final placement abp gif gif arbitrary size containing abp black white times roman points brain inside andre beck abpsoft mehl andre beck irs inf dresden
comp.graphics	psygnosis titles rumours article apr rchland ibm ricardo rchland vnet ibm ricardo hernandez muchado writes mhz you sprites for lot tricks for making cool awesome games read psygnosis speaking psygnosis licensed games philips interative media international for recently posted message section multimedia forum seventh guest licensed virgin games philips interactive media international for worldwide rights licensed litil divil gremlin graphics and microcosm psygnosis titles will adapted full potential fmv cartridge meaning additional memory motion video capabilities titles negociated europe will worldwide lemmings licensed psygnosis striker soccer rage don titles will work even started don expect your retailer mention future nintendo games issue magazine ert mario hotel mentioned levels mark work for philips don work multimedia info provided good faith read and not represent statement philips mark samson information technology group philips research laboratories cross oak lane redhill surrey tel ext tel labs telex fax email seri samson prlhp unix samson prl philips binary files packages prlhp
comp.graphics	scf files needed article apr tlc demo disk that view made rix softworks files two diskette set end scf demo vga resolution colors don spatial resolution colorix manual scf files problem run demo screen two black bars that cut across horizontally screen top and bottom screen bars inch wide this demo animation part running fine second problem can find graphics program that will open and display files couple image conversion programs mention scf files you vpic handles color rix files rob sherry sherry okstate edu
comp.graphics	studio differences previous version understand difference studio and ipas interface small bug fixes ipas code runs lot faster newest version chris johnston materials engineer nasa lewis research center internet chris sarah lerc nasa gov brookpark cleveland usa resistance futile
comp.graphics	photoshop for windows article uhim jfq rot beaver rot andre boivert writes for comments people used heard photoshop for windows good compare mac version lot bugs heard windows version fine tuning photoshopii date and cofmments andy andrew leahy aleahy cch coventry odd frog piece work man noble reason infinite faculties form and moving express and admirable action angel apprehension god beauty world paragon animals and quintessence dust man delights not shakespeare hamlet
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance article alice att alice att tom duff writes ulrich galki toppoint wrote suggestions forty two six times for small values six and tom couldn resist
comp.graphics	graphics formats for information graphics formats ppm pcx bmp and perhaps gif exist files site that describes formats erik brenn email erikb idt unit oooo faculty computer science telematics norwegian institute technology trondheim oooo not make sense cents
comp.graphics	wanted info image databases padmini srivathsa wisconsin writes references introductory material image databases happy international snail mail technical information imaging databases you can provide your address for hard copy not email focusing open pace oracle ingres adabas sybase and gupta imaging databases installed installed and production novell lans and unix workstations work visual basic michael willett office wang
comp.graphics	problems grabbing block starbase screen moment grab portion starbase screen and store area memory data bit format shouldn problem app running bit screen not fussy exact format intend write data tiff that bits not problem grab portion screen block read call grab screen not bit colour screen window type byte per pixel advance martin martin preston preston manchester computer graphics computer graphics unit manchester computing centre university manchester load balls manchester phone
comp.graphics	dos recently found for dos subdirectory gnu gnuish use frequently sun spark station and never had problems start computer option display menu and start gif file hard disk turns seconds and prompt come back computer copro mega rams tseng running dos himem sys and emm sys had exe driver run somenone solution run apprecied you server running top dos use desqview dos server technical documentation writing words for features that customers use don opinions factual interpretations power uunet rutgers mcdhup inferno tom can found periphonics corporation veterans memorial highway bohemia pay write not express opinions
comp.graphics	closed curve intersection reference algorithm that can detect whether closed curve bounded number bezier curves lies completely another closed curve bounded bezier curves sean lamont wsi fonts zeno genetics washington edu professional collection for lamont abstractsoft abstract software
comp.graphics	print graph printer this simple problem cannot solve wrote program draw polygons screen and want print printer press print screen keyboard problem printer print ascii characters print screen print screen
comp.graphics	ftp achive for usgs terrain data ftp archive for united states geological services usgs terrain data charles boesel diablo creative pro for and con cboesel diablo holonet net opposite progress pager congress
comp.graphics	postscript strokeadjust info information display postscript strokeadjust feature this feature adjusts endpoints lines that displayed line low resolution devices postscript literature explains process extent give example emulate strokeadjust postscript environments absent suggested emulation modify coordinates endpoints line formula for each coordinate coord round coord this end coordinates ending reading thought that coord trunc coord this results coordinates ending whichever closer actual comparisons display postscript find that dps since dps result stuff dps willing steve squeegee world std
comp.graphics	package for fashion designer this article generated buggy news reader
comp.graphics	packages for fashion designers for commercial software packages for professional fashion designers recommendation and pointers greatly appreciated mail you million
comp.graphics	mpeg location can find mpeg viewer dos windows advance alan jackson mail ajackson cch cov liverpool football club simply you never walk alone
comp.graphics	color palette for color vga rainbow calculate rgb values required set color vga palette that colors will give colors rainbow red orange yellow etc appreciated email eeerik newcastle edu erik castro lopo dept electrical computer eng uni newcastle australia
comp.graphics	attractive drawing sphere made attractive program computer for drawing sphere and pasting paper for children artists and education can send example alt source wanted you can rotation sphere you interested children can design tesselations famous regular polyhedra difficaltis and print patterns paste spherical models moscow tel clock mail valentin vulihman
comp.graphics	attractive drawing sphere subscribe comp graphics quit
comp.graphics	newsgroup split article nerone apr sylvester utexas edu nerone ccwf utexas edu michael nerone writes article quvdoinn srvr engin umich edu tdawson engin umich edu chris herringshaw writes proposed newsgroup split personally not readily observable that current spectrum amiga groups plagued mega crossposting group split not likelihood bring structured environment glad you write that flamed begged not crosspost nonsense articles problem crossposting poster aware that this posting crossposting you never interested people stay split newsgroups brings even crossposting jan holler bern switzerland good not good make holli holler augs adsp sub org second chance holler iamexwi unibe fast mail cbmehq cbmswi augs holli holler cbmvax commodore
comp.graphics	tom gaskins pexlib phigs programming manuals reilly explain difference tom gaskins two books pexlib programming manual phigs programming manual want buy book book running sco unix desktop sun lab and access variety systems alliant cray network modeling visualization rat rabbit monkey and human brain structure alexander james annala principal investigator neuroscience image analysis network hedco neuroscience building floor university southern california university park los angeles
comp.graphics	scf files needed article apr daimi aau rued daimi aau writes rix files extension sci and scf raw file color palette stuff deleted regards thomas you happen sco rix file alex kiernan akiernan falcon demon
comp.graphics	miro crystal ati gup planning buy vlb eisa system good graphic performance looked ati gup vlb favorite graphics card recently heard card miro miro crystal and true color support costs ati can decide matches technical references and performance comparisons miro card greatly appreciated peter mail kohut urz unibas universitas basiliensis switzerland
comp.graphics	news list image processing systems moscow scientific inductrial association spectrum offer videoscan vision system for wich include software and set controllers software for support videoscan family program kit developed kit includes functions for image processing kit works interactive regime and include for professional users possibility input frame board videoscan family read white image disk print image printer makes arithmetic frames filter image work gistogramme edit image include users exe modules controller function controller load images into controller load fragment frame field pixels clock rate mhz loading image pixel line and mhz loading pixels image this equal pixel size input image horizontal and vertical directions number gray levels input modes video signal capture time controller purpose controller enter images into ibm machine that type controller created base modern elements including user programmable gate arrays controller digitize input signal resolutions flexible architecture makes change technical parameters signal can process analog signal including signals slow speed scanning devices controller technical characteristics memory volume resolution working standard video signal pixels resolution working slow input regime pixels video signal capture time maximum size screen memory volume pixels number gray level clock rate for input mhz input video multiplexer input output lookup table lut possibility realize scroll and zoom lines for external synchronization input external controlling signal electronic adjustment black and white reference for analog digital converter possibility output image color rgb monitor can change listed functions and parameters controller reprogramming image processor image processor digitize and process signal real time digitize signal resolution and realize arithmetic and logic operation two images processor created base modern elements including user programmable gate arrays and designed board for memory volume write frames format accumulate images processor technical characteristics memory volume number gray level input video multiplexer input output lookup table electronic adjustment for black and white adc reference image size possibility color and black white output possibility input slow scan video sources
comp.graphics	renderman shaders discussion site ftp renderman shaders newsgroup discussion information renderman renderman mac family and info can lay hands andy bates andy bates
comp.graphics	coreldraw bitmap scodal article gmginn zephyr grace cri srlnjal grace cri writes aware coreldraw exports scodal you export scodal bitmap will cannot export this ears not ideal solution use tracing utility can remember name included corel draw pack can convert bitmaps corel art format can imported into drawing bitmap result file completely corel format and can scodal problem slight problem this makes solution idea that trace utility spits points define shapes traced straight lines and curves traced short segments scodal taking longer image obvious solution time consuming stripping extra points hand corel ouch times wondering that bitmap scodal part tad cheaper jeff lyall you don mind problems route bitmap corel trace hand trimming corel combine main corel pic import scodal cheers toby toby freeman glasgow university freemant glasgow dcs
comp.graphics	pov problems tga outputs can fiqure this properly compiled pov unix machine running sunos problem that run sample pov files and use exact parameters compiling tga outputs tga and unrecognizable software edb tamsun tamu edu
comp.graphics	bit graphics recently talking employer mine and made reference bit graphics computer image processing system remember called image akin that claimed had bit color bit alpha channel that bits info that possibly for specifically bit color that trillion colors human eye can resolve this anti aliasing thing this magic number make work processor settle bet roommate sgi flagship products iris indigo and crimson and top line sadly access dec sigh eric oehler oehler picard wisc edu
comp.graphics	adobe photo shop type software for unix motif platforms shipping for year adobe display postscript dps silicon graphics workstations file servers and supercomputers adobe illustrator for silicon graphics machines released last february adobe and sgi announced last october that photoshop will sgi systems initial release will support bit color graphics ivan bach sgi disclaimer not speak for employer
comp.graphics	ftp achive for usgs terrain data diablo cboesel charles boesel writes ftp archive for united states geological services usgs terrain data point your gopher client merlot welch jhu edu and select directories search and retrieve software search and retrieve graphics software and data and you graphics online bibliography acm siggraph graphics software and data archives ftp sites search graphics information search comp graphics faq search graphics resources software and data search pictures utilities faq graphics online bibliography acm siggraph searches and archives bibliographic database that covers graphics literature for hundred years served gopher hole austria graphics software and data archives ftp sites links sites world software and data for computer graphics this can used companion searches found this directory will point you software and data places search graphics information search comp graphics faq search graphics resources software and data search pictures utilities faq searches wealth information computer graphics data software techniques etc search graphics information will simply search information contained searches and search comp graphics faq lets you search faq frequently asked questions comp graphics newsgroup compiled john grieggs jpl search graphics resources software and data lets you search grpahics resource listing software and data provided nick fotis national technical univ athens search pictures utilities faq lets you search faq frequently asked questions alt binaries pixutils newsgroup compiled jim howard cadence select search graphics information and search for usgs and you find information usgs data availability select graphics software and data archives ftp sites and you find interesting cartographic data usgs data xerox mapgen plotgen and usgs usgs weekly seismicity reports including maps gif usgs earth science data directory this database data search for terrain prove quite place anonymous ftp moment geological survey maps isdres usgs gov you never heard gopher don worry free and net write note you information started luck dan jacobson danj welchgate welch jhu edu johns hopkins university
comp.graphics	advice sought turning font outlines into renderable polygons seeking alternate solutions turn postscript type truetype font outline into polygons that can subsequently scan converted scanline renderer studying problem font conversion for years never had implement such system opportunity write font rendering software questions answered jump into deep end main problem face use even odd winding rules turn outlines into single outline polygon renderer can handle complex polygons reduce polygons simple polygons for example letter two outlines outline clockwise truetype font inside outline counterclockwise common solution used number rendering packages simply connect outline outer outline point two outlines closest this equivalent descibing polygon holes renderer will make hole since interior polygon edges opposite direction edges not want use this simplistic system since will not handle outline fonts properly not simple matter connect outer outline outline for fancy fonts not properly handle even odd winding rules research years proper solution use trapezoid decomposition algorithm scan convert outlines into trapezoids postscript and truetype font rasterizers trapezoidal polygons can easily and properly rendered scanline renderer question solutions turning outlines into polgyons trapezoid decomposer not fond this solution since creates excess number polygons another question for algorithm create bevelled and offset curves for font outlines dozen papers subjects can method implement for pointers rob lansdale robert lansdale dynamic graphics project internet lansd dgp toronto edu computer systems research institute uunet dgp toronto edu lansd university toronto bitnet lansd dgp utoronto toronto ontario canada
comp.graphics	for usa map line drawing usa map advance hoi yoo engr ucf edu
comp.graphics	files chaining anonymous ftp world for studio meshes and interesting graphical stuff for program and found files extension doesn this type file and perennial meshes fli files etc thought that collected and put alas this knowledge mucho appreciato douginoz
comp.graphics	ftp for targa for software run brand targa sites stuff you you want give mail lot yayayay jamie ddsw mcs
comp.graphics	mgr naplps gui bbs frontends into methods can use turn linux based bbs into full color graphical bbs that supports mac linux and amiga callers originally inspired naplps graphics standard summary hit this group weeks ago software availability naplps supporting software find that terminal programs commercial resonable shareware runs soley msdos machines leaving mac and amiga users buy full commercial software want bbs wouldn interesting possibility port mgr mac amiga version mac port bellcore that doesn work system can find source anywhere can patch color version mgr for linux alpha version libs last year misplaced this group mgr ported amiga can send message mgr channel bouncing suggestions for linux based gui bbs advan
comp.graphics	gaspra animation quicktime gaspra animation march gaspra animation ames space archives quicktime format animation formed images galileo spaecraft shortly closest approach asteroid october animation anonymous ftp ftp ames arc nasa gov user anonymous pub space animation files gaspra ron baalke baalke kelvin jpl nasa gov jet propulsion lab telos kind fun pasadena impossible walt disney
comp.graphics	vga scrolling you want soft scrolling your vga you change intern registers crtc bit difficult explain suggest you programming ega vga adapter addison wesley you will find descriptions for vga register boris bobo ponton hanse boris pruessmann
comp.graphics	tiff description for wasting your time simple question not computer graphic expert want read tiff files pascal program problem that files want read compressed form code huffman books articles found describe plain uncompressed format don original tiff specification haven access realy complete library can direct good book even specification ftp advance thomas wolf direct mail prefered
comp.graphics	illustrator autotrace poorly article vmcbrt diablo diablo cboesel charles boesel writes yeah corel draw and wordperfect presentations pretty limited since not such thing decent raster vector conversion program this tracing technique simple stuff logos etc pretty complicated stuff haywire suspect even don write code that good bitmapped vector conversion program big application softwares even come hasn written knowledge mean even hijaak commercial industry standards file conversion hasn attempted mac mcdougald opinions expressed photography center not necessarily univ tenn knoxville almost not mac utkvx utk edu university tennessee mac utkvx bitnet things fax
comp.graphics	tom gaskins pexlib phigs programming manuals reilly merlin neuro usc edu merlin writes explain difference tom gaskins two books pexlib programming manual phigs programming manual want buy book book running sco unix desktop sun lab and access variety systems alliant cray network modeling visualization rat rabbit monkey and human brain structure decide book you want buy you decide programming interface you want use buy book wrote article for resource discusses differences phigs and pexlib will issue pretty summary phigs graphics api designed portable devices implementations support window system and advantage extension called pex pexlib slightly lower level api designed efficiently support pex extension advantages pexlib integrates xlib motif etc phigs mode capabilities free policy pex supports phigs extended support features not found phigs texture mapping anti aliasing pexlib will give you access features advantages phigs support for multiple devices not based support for archiving metafiles hardcopy output phigs predefined input devices make input easier phigs can handle exposure events and resizing for you phigs can you colormap selection creation you working strictly and don care things archiving pexlib you will find that api lot common ralph mor mit consortium
comp.graphics	mpeg location alan jackson ajackson cch coventry wrote can find mpeg viewer dos windows advance alan jackson mail ajackson cch cov liverpool football club simply you never walk alone you can find windows mpeg viewer wuarchive wustl edu mirrors msdos windows directory tmc tmc spartan brocku
comp.graphics	newsgroup split chris herringshaw tdawson engin umich edu wrote proposed newsgroup split personally not favor this learn awful lot aspects graphics reading this group code hardware algorithms making groups this wate and will result posts week per group kind convenience big forum for discussing aspects graphics feel this curious daemon tmc tmc spartan brocku
comp.graphics	rumours article lot rapnbh viamar rutgers viamar kmembry writes read issue wired magazine long article hype noticed that article talks designers and great never show pictures output pictures that can understand gamepro magazine published pictures months ago and computer chronicles program that syndicated public stations nation spent minutes shown ces impressive can real time john munsch don that mean that that system world that lot horsepower vis sega turbo duo crowd
comp.graphics	tiff article apr spartan brocku tmc spartan brocku tim ciceran writes program called graphic workshop you can ftp wuarchive file msdos graphics directory and called grfwk zip this program everthing you tmc tmc spartan brocku work and needed joshuaf
comp.graphics	newsgroup split tmc spartan brocku tim ciceran writes chris herringshaw tdawson engin umich edu wrote proposed newsgroup split personally not favor this learn awful lot aspects graphics reading this group code hardware algorithms making groups this wate and will result posts week per group kind convenience big forum for discussing aspects graphics feel this curious daemon ditto tmc tmc spartan brocku joe noble pogo den mmc beauty dying vulture smile stupid
comp.graphics	loosing color guys scanning color image and fine screen converted into pcx bmp gif files into windows colors lighter for example yellows white ideas dan csc phx vaxc hofstra edu
comp.graphics	color problem scanning color image and fine screen converted into pcx bmp gif files into windows colors lighter for example yellows white ideas dan csc phx vaxc hofstra edu
comp.graphics	illustrator autotrace poorly shareware graphics program called pman filter that makes picture hand drawing this picture converted into vector format easier lines corel trace etc
comp.graphics	pov ray problem recently had povray draw sample files problem that accidently erased command povray def that made image targas file files dump format fix files trace fix mean turn into targas advance jerry jerry lineberry internet lineber lonestar utsa edu compuserve
comp.graphics	scip fiction set comp science programming environs scip ction set sci programming environs list ian feldman written book title publisher year isbn john brunner shockwave rider ray ballantine cracking net free information for common good pat cadigan mindplayers absolute bruce sterling pat cadigan synners bantam virtual reality orson scott card lost boys harper collins programmer and family encounters strange events north carolina denise danks frame grabber martin hrdb gbp computer illiterate journalix tracks murderer bbs toni dwiggins interrupt techno mystery set silicon valley michael frayn tin men fontana inspired lunacy print david gerrold harlie release bantam william gibson count computers gods part trilogy william gibson mona lisa overdrive virtual reality william gibson burning chrome cyberpunk short stories william gibson neuromancer industrial espionage author guilty inventing cyberpunk genre james hogan genesis machine del ray james hogan thrice time time travel for information james hogan two faces tomorrow del ray ultimate test letting run spacelab amok stanislaw lem master voice failed attempt decode message tom maddox halo remarkable robots artificial intelligence george martin nightflyers tor books macavoy tea black dragon mystery computer fraud situation computing bits ring true vonda mcintyre steelcollar worker analog nov blue collar marge piercy body glass penguin data piracy review finger books body glass danny orthanc david pogue hard drive diamond programmer dies accident leaves documentation software firms fight for market share virii pages macworld steve brock richard powers gold bug variations morrow famous molecular scientist ponders love life edp dept paul preuss human error nanotech computer infects brain damaged kid thomas ryan adolescence ace runaway experiment takes mainframes wrecks havoc bruce sterling difference engine gibson bantam finger books difference engine danny orthanc cliff stoll cuckoo egg fiction reads review ftp garbo uwasa mac tidbits mar etx tom thomas smart computers vernor vinge across realtime baen books titles vernor vinge tatja grimm world baen books vernor vinge witling baen books millennium vernor vinge threats and promises baen books books vernor vinge true names dangers baen books vernor vinge fire deep tor books essentially future internet john varley press enter short story gruesome good yourdon silent witness computer crime caper story gumshoe explain intricacies computer girlfriend herbert franke das zentrum der milchstrasse center galaxy herbert franke letzte programmierer last programmer not mean frank herbert emil zopfi computer fuer nacht limmat verlag switzerland emil zopfi jede minute kostet franken last german last set commercial computing world early current version this list finger scip danny orthanc compiled mail additions comments updates ianf random statistical breakdown scip fiction nominations title author books nominated adolescence ryan vinge titles neuromancer gibson gibson titles true names and dangers vinge ryan adolescence shockwave rider brunner brunner shockwave rider gerrold gerrold fire deep vinge hogan titles threats and promises vinge lem fiasco hmv solar total nominations authors female readers contributions unsorted fifo sbrock teal csn org steve brock john lacey johnl indiana edu malloy nprdc navy mil sean malloy thom kevin gillespie thom silver ucs indiana edu paul christopher workman andrew cmu edu kellys code code kelly sorensen whughes lonestar utsa edu william hughes north curtin edu tim north loreti fnal fnal gov maurizio loreti stephen hart stephenh mun duane marble dmarble magnus acs ohio state edu matthias neeracher neeri iis ethz wolfram wagner mpi mpg webb tsavo hks peter webb setzer ssd comm mot thomas setzer kevles acf nyu edu beth kevles world std jeff delpapa rsquires cyclops eece unm edu roger squires hartman ulogic richard hartman vernor vinge vinge saturn sdsu edu paul lebeau plebeau cix compulink lawrence rounds ljr beach cis ufl edu phydeaux cumc cornell edu david weingart chgs vaxa strath learning courtesy rowan fairgrove rowanf cache crc ricoh peterc suite peter chubb gara pruesse gara toronto edu russell alpha ersys edmonton russell schulz ahm spatula rent andreas meyer jon washington edu jon jacky eugene nas nasa gov eugene miya mair chgs vaxb strathclyde mengel dcdmwm fnal gov marc mengel roger scowen rss seg npl kevino clbooks kevin oster system administrator chavey wisc edu darrah chavey vonda mcintyre mcintyre cpac washington edu bruce sterling bruces scott thomas yabiku yabi midway uchicago edu thomas adshead uad dircon paul andrews compuserve mucho ian internet worm feldman ianf random
comp.graphics	interviews graphics package rene dutch student renes ecpdsharmony cern wrote graphics package interviews man pages classes haven documentation can send small example program shows use classes together gratefull you want comp windows interviews
comp.graphics	fractal compression article inu lindblat monash edu inu lindblat monash edu rachmat writes can give book reference title give start fractal image compression technique helps will appreciated for worse source this michael barnsley article science fractal images peitgen fair middling intro barnsley book fractals thorough treatment book covers iterated function systems general and application image compression clear text memory jbulf kpc
comp.graphics	graphics needed for graphics clipart bmp gif relating ophthalmology weird request such eyeglasses contact lenses eyes greatly appreciated
comp.graphics	jpeg file format peterbak microsoft peter bako writes find description jpg file format specifically jpg file can find height and width image and perhaps even number colors used suggestions peter ftp net graphics jpeg chun hung lin csie ntu edu communication multimedia lab dept comp sci info eng national taiwan university taipei taiwan
comp.graphics	easy translate jpeg code jpeg decompression code pretty language that can read and understand trouble understanding jpeg group code that ftp site can send good code will lot stuart denman stusoft washington edu
comp.graphics	files doug hparc aus doug parsons writes chaining anonymous ftp world for studio meshes and interesting graphical stuff for program and found files extension doesn this type file object files for cad program written tom hudson for atari computers don that stored points surfaces and made listing point numbers that make triangle surface header that describes coloring lighting etc don this hope this helps stuart denman stusoft washington edu
comp.graphics	gif bmp saz hook corp mot program that converts gif files bmp files and can ftp greatly appreciated great shareware program graphic workshop newest version don you can ftp converts formats and things ell deluxe address eric vitiello tfd coplex
comp.graphics	viewer for files article dux dundee dwestner cardhu mcs dundee dominik westner writes subject viewer for files for dominik dominik you xgrasp ftp sites not archie can find works lacks interface jason weiler weilej rpi edu
comp.graphics	texture rules noticed that you save model your mapping planes positioned carefully file that you reload restarting default position and orientation you save prj file positions orientation preserved this information not stored file nothing explicitly manual saving texture rules prj file read texture rule information format for prj file cel file format rych rycharde hawkes email rych festival virtual environment laboratory dept psychology tel univ edinburgh fax
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	kermit for windows article vicuna ocunix steve frampton frampton vicuna ocunix wondering kermit package actual package not usual ftp sites yek chong
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	win storm info video sound card sigma designs called win storm another card called legend info appreciated incuding performance pricing and availability srini
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	win doublespace article hpwala wal chrisa hpwarr chris almy writes doublespace not trust for hard disks sounds great for floppies thouoght mount disk anoying can deal problem arises windows mount and unmount windows this part upgrades vendors chris can you not trust safer previous compression programs integrates into kernal and makes impossible delete
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mouse driver documentation for mouse driver windows windows manual not come documentation turn and speed windows greater sensitivity needed can play games esp wing carlos niederstrasser two things infinite princeton planetary society universe and human stupidity and not einstein carlosn phoenix princeton edu space phoenix princeton edu astra per ardua nostra
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	win icon win and downloaded icons and bmp can figure change wallpaper use icons appreciated brando mail
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	smartdrv exe causing bad sectors unusual happen background system mitsubishi meg hard drive and running smartdrv version that comes windows rarely use windows use program called disk technician gold diagnostics live time hard drive works device driver detect whenever read for file wrong and minor problems fully checked rebooting hard drive notorious for bad sectors end bad sectors week happened ran program and dtg broke emergency warning and recommended reboot gave this message twice program fully loaded exited program and this dtg bootup process examining for errors etc and screen popped and sectors for period time back program executed and exact error detected rebooted and and error happened removed dtg memory and program detect wrong number read attempts rebooted and reloaded dtg removed cache executed program read errors audible detected dtg quit program loaded cache and ran program errors detected errors and dtg detects doesn fix cache loaded cache not loaded errors cache interfering files into xtree gold and tagged files and searched for random string words wanted program completely read file hard drive dtg had detected six errors and recommended reboot idea smartdrv causing misreads hard drive exactly two misreads per file and files affected originally posted this message disk technician corp system figured netland smartdrv internet jdriver netlink cts john driver ryptyde netlink jdriver netlink online communications public access san diego
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows access for blind apr seas gwu edu louray seas gwu edu michael panayiotakis writes micro oft display fose computers running windows and win apps for blind didn pay attention that program designed for blind people important interface windows for blind people use made voice recognition multimedia sound oriented program effective don original purpose interfacing windows for person posted question kirk membry age age industry rutgers viamar kmembry alexander rodchenko
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	not dos anymore running dos for month generally impressed improvements multiple boot configurations great commands nice and doublespace worked fine twice slow for large data transfers twice fast for small smartdrv this morning working research paper had reboot hung dos program that disk windows machine finished rebooting found windows directory and two thirds directories irreversibly corrupted cannot afford problems this returning dos mark noticed bad sector errors doublespace exist
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	changing startup logo brad monday april brad smalling wrote crosspost for vga card correct files you can copy back and expect work you create win file command you will worry directories each file since don your setup copy win cnf vgalogo lgo vgalogo rle win grabbed this supercharging windows judd robbins great book this you can put your logo into windows startup screen rle file specially compressed bmp file brad procedure used specially compress bmp file love use bmp files created logo screen chris origin chris doelle fidonet org
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	ati card video drivers fonts can ftp acquire latest video drivers fonts for ati svga adapter floppy for windows ati business farley access digex charles farley average calgary board employee
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	truetype oem font line drawing characters etc wanted title truetype oem character set font that contains line drawing and characters character set similar you running text mode application point such thing grateful oem fonts included windows not truetype regards colin manning
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	changing startup logo article rgtba gtn access digex net farley access digex charles farley writes this faq installed for ati graphics card and bashed windows logo files start windows logo logo thought files that controlled this windows system vgalogo rle windows system vgalogo lgo restored files didn change logo correct files you correct files you back into setup and choose change video adapter called trick choose adaptor you setup file win whenever you into and change video hardware selection incorporates contents vgalogo rle into win you this this trick can used change startup logo into you want sig alert dbstrutt acs ucalgary end sig alert
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	document rtf article mar worak kaist tjyu eve kaist taijung writes document rtf file can advance microsoft tech support sterling bjorndahl bjorndahl augustana bjorndahl camrose augustana university college camrose alberta canada
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	winbench graphics comparison article zogd news udel edu swyatt bach udel edu stephen wyatt writes question winbench labs thing and ahead card and results windows vga driver million ahead driver winmarks windows svga driver million winmarks thinking upgrading diamond card read had million winmark this greater this color mode this good card street price mhz ram winbench richard mayston maystonr grace cri
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	dos defragment geoffrey elbo writes and fastest defrag watched hard disk minutes found defrag norton speedisk strip version norton speedisk and backup wondering install backup richard
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows gripe thing windows that frosts ram installed system use windows disk cache and permanent swap file can never fill memory problems sometimes run gdi resources windows manage resources you windows you devotes twice memory and runs frequently you use resource monitors such that comes windows resource kit shareware programs hogging resources icon internal graphics brush etc program running amount this limited memory area don give back finished lamont downs downs nevada edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	winbench jorge erex east sun jorge lach sun bos hardware writes ftp site that carries winbench results for graphics cards excel xls format latest version winbench and differ source and port window that will make comparisons ftp cica indiana edu pub win misc winadv zip writeup steve gibson infoworld winbench and number benchmark results for isa and vlb video cards this current upload and likely card you giving consideration not xls format latest version winbench that ver maintain rating scale versions and versions released defeat lastest coding tricks put driver programmers beat benchmarks don last devilbiss col
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	norton desktop for windows article apr exu ericsson ebuwoo ebu ericsson james woo writes had chance norton desktop for windows version understand upgrade cost idea version offer upgrade this weekend shipping and handling steep for couple disks sounds ripoff city can this purchased vendors bill volz chevron petroleum technology earth model interpretation analysis division box habra phone fax
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	dos defragment article news cso uiuc edu rhc uxa cso uiuc edu richard writes geoffrey elbo writes and fastest defrag watched hard disk minutes found defrag norton speedisk strip version norton speedisk and backup wondering install backup richard defragger come norton you norton utility don bother
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	geos windows and unix sehari vincent iastate edu sehari iastate edu babak sehari writes limited knowladge geos comparison geos windows unix can run win programs nop yap yap nop novell demoing windows apps running unixware can run unix nop not nop yap heard mks mks esp emx note mks toolkit for dos windows you good suite standard unix utilities similar systems vendors emx system for you standard unix system calls for recompiling your unix programs not quite thing running unix programs directly case emx makes almost compatible unix systems unix systems each and emx free similar system for dos doesn work windows price free good costs avaliable ext card add cost for dos geos and windows standalone this point unix requires dos btw two unices for pee cee unixware for personal edition and linux free don agree that good costs and you want check options you you into desqview and desqview cheers chris waters insane don judy bedroom xtifr netcom disclaimers inventing situations byrne
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	comments xtree for windows for comments xtree pro for windows thinking buying product not even you shane holland holland dal holland dal maurack dal
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	microsoft windows and ope icons program manager aliases that explicit apparently not people complain confusion that results filemanager progman split basic flaw control panel icons files
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	microsoft windows and operating system you that you wrong joys networking hope that you forgot you don file manager don use don use ndw modular nature windoze you things modular you love system adding line your autoexec bat you drop icon into extensions folder had ignorance sold evil fruit empire not forbidden learn file system below level gui working that
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	sound blaster ver windows article crossposted comp speech comp sys ibm soundcard comp linux author mario lauretti posted mon apr gmt sound blaster ver install driver ver driver that comes window upgrade card found drivers creative labs problems installing removing vsbd version that come windows installing creative sound blaster midi synthesizer install creative sound blaster wave menu add unlisted updated driver and double click this driver this error driver error cannot load creative sound blaster wave and midi driver driver file missing installing driver contact your system administrator read readme and thing can mario laureti internet laurm tohi dmi usherb
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows gripe article ppmvf qnh bigboote wpi edu bigal wpi wpi edu nathan charles crowell writes thing windows that frosts ram installed system use windows disk cache and permanent swap file can never fill memory problems sometimes run gdi resources windows manage resources input conserve resources that can avoid this problem nate nathan crowell dept mechanical engineering acrl worcester polytechnic institute mail bigal wpi wpi edu costing net hundreds not thousands dollars nathan win